is IQ a measure of Intelligence?

@kamran12 (5526)
Pakistan
June 29, 2007 8:42pm CST
Well, You may say that this is not a valid question as “IQ” IS the quantification of intelligence. But how objectively do you think IQ can measure intelligence? History has seen great many scientists who were pathetic students, yet came out to be great minds later. IQ tests may also be biased giving more opportunity to children/people with more exposure than those who don’t have it. Similarly English causes problems to those who are not native speakers and their lack of English skills make them suffer in IQ test results, isn’t it so? There can be many such factors…but if IQ was an absurd quantification, then why it is still considered important? What are your views on relevance of IQ with intelligence?
6 people like this
17 responses
@youdontsay (3497)
• United States
30 Jun 07
An IQ score is not the number but the range of intellectual capacity. There are different tests, so if there is a question about some bias, they can give a different kind. I would imagine that they come in different languages, as well. There is some bias toward life experience, I believe but probably not enough to throw the range off completely. It isn't just about what you know but about how your process and use information. There are IQ tests that don't require reading that can be used for non-readers. I saw an increase in IQ score of an adult male after mental health therapy for childhood abuse. I thought that was VERY interesting. Is it possible that the mind is frozen by the trauma and can be un-frozen?
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
your are right, youdontsay, that they are available in different language but still the options are limited. Most of my countrymen (original) suffer a lower IQ result just because they don't really understand question which requires english skills. That is the main reason they are rated low in group of nations. Similarly, as for GRE (Graduate record examination), My countrymen have been scoring great in Mathematical and Analytical portions but they are beaten in Verbal section. Guess what, they out perform even Americans in mathematics and analytical parts but because of verbal their overall scores have been low. I myself took old style GRE exam (practice) and got 1600/1600 in mathematics and analytical portion but got only 470/800 in verbal part. Similarly I took Mensa workout and got 29/30 right. The only wrong answer was because of my lack of english knowledge. I am just an example, same is the case with people around the word which suffer this general bias. I do not throw it off and don't support if anybody would do that but one must be wary of taking the IQ score too seriously as a measure of Intelligence to undermine whole range of abilities of a person. I am glad that you worked and raised the IQ of people suffering from trauma. Un-freezing of IQ or mental abilities is very possible phenomenon. Like I said, there were many great minds who suffered some sort of alienation in childhood, who were pathetic students and couldn't work and perform well because of any reason but later they picked themselves up and made a well deserved name:-) Thanks for sharing your views, youdontsay!:-)
2 people like this
• United States
30 Jun 07
I don't believe that an IQ score is a good indication of the person's abuility as a student. A lot depends on the learning style of the student and the teaching style of the instructors. Not everyone processes information the same way. However, most teachers only instruct in one way. If you don't process information the way they teach, it is much harder for you to learn.
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
I really appreciate your additional input and views, youdontsay:-)
1 person likes this
@rupee1 (38)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
well true! IQ measurement inventories are not perfect quantifications of one's intelligence because of many factors. The language barriers, difference of exposure from person to person etc etc But as the time passes, more research introduces better IQ testing inventories which are more closer to perfect validity in order to quantify the intelligence The language barriers have been minimized by introducing the graphical material in testing like the images, draws , illustration etc and the exposure variation no doubt still hinders the measurability of intelligence, but think about an inventory testing the people existing in a specific class the same location with similar appearant attributes, the people assumed to have diffrent exposures can be tested with different weightings and using different set of tools so to a great extent this barrier can also be removed... Studenthood??.. well being a student does not mean that your intelligence is being measured.. its just being polished their. The IQ testing is far differnt from the examination systems of formal schooling
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Hello, rupee1:-) You are right that it's getting more and more refined but still they are made by humans who are imperfect themselves and there are factors which makes it difficult to really relate this test and the human intelligence. graphical materials have reduced but not eliminated the problem. you are right about difference of IQ testing and examination but both can be and are flawed to a certain extent. What do you think? I myself has a very high IQ according to tests but I can see flaws in that system and actually I have pointed them out in another post. Thank you for sharing your views, rupee1:-)
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Welcome to mylot, rupee1:-)
1 person likes this
@polachicago (18716)
• United States
30 Jun 07
Yes and no. At some point it is person ability to think with abstract problems and questions. You can perform well on those tests, but have real problem with life practical questions and problems. It is working only 50/50...
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
you have a very balanced view, polachicago!:-) Thanks for sharing:-)
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
30 Jun 07
I actually feel very strongly about the dangers of IQ testing. When I was a child, my IQ tested very high, and the stress that put on myself and my half-brother was a very bad thing for us. I felt like I was constantly being demeaned for not doing enough with my potential, even though I wasn't given the opportunity to do anything with it either. My family refused to let me skip grades but expected me to somehow find challenges in school, and any time I made the slightest mistake I was in major trouble. My half-brother, on the other hand, basically had to spend his entire childhood being told he was just never going to be as good as me. He was advised to study things that he could do without much thinking, and never encouraged to follow through with anything that really interested him. It caused so much rancor in our relationship that he literally tried to kill me. As an adult, I've accepted that just because I am intelligent doesn't mean that I have to do things that "smart people" are supposed to do, and that I do use my intelligence in many ways even if they aren't the ones people expected of me. I am pretty happy with the things I am doing with my life, and while I would like to continue my education when I get the chance, I don't feel as if it's something that I HAVE to do to please others. Since I left the area where my biological family lives, I've even managed to patch up things with my half-brother a little, because our roles within the family no longer really apply.
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Hello lecanis!:-) I think that the problem comes when people start taking this test as an absolute measure of human intelligence. Human intelligence is way too complex to be quantified by a system developed by yet another human which has it's own flaws. You have mentioned very pertinent examples of yours and your half brother. You see they were taking it as an absolute measure and in a way abusing both you and your brother; you in the sense that with such high IQ you should be doing all sorts of things and your brother in the sense that he can't do anything so just freaking him out. I and one of my friend (who was an excellent student and usually topped the class) took a logical reasoning IQ test. there were few questions, I scored 100% and he could only manage 25%. Now, I know very well that he is a very intelligent and a brilliant mind and a student. What this test did was that he was much depressed for quite a while. I tried my best to tell him that it's nothing but still in next assignment he failed just because of depression. I don't know why he took it so serious while I kept trying telling him that it's not a measure of one's capability and if I havent had studied logic, I could have done much worse than him. Similarly I recently responded to a post where the poster told that religious people have lower IQ and concluded that they are idiots because they are religious. I was really annoyed but responded to him calmly where I not only contended with the flaws of this system by telling him what's wrong with the pressumptions he was taking and the conclusion he was drawing but in additional comment I asked all non religious people to take a test and tell me if they can come near some of my friends and myself who are very religious. It's in these contexts that I don't like this system. I don't despise it and nor do I tell people that it's evil or wrong. I just want to tell people that it's not an absolute measure, that it can also contain errors as a system. I only don't like when people use it to abuse others who have a lower number on IQ test, who berate others because they somehow got higher. I myself get proud when I score higher but when this pride insults others, it is there I don't like it and tell people where they are going wrong about all this thing. I am glad that you have worked out best possible meaning for you in life and that how something is going to affect you. I am also happy that you have a better relationship with your brother now. Thanks for sharing your story and views, lecanis!:-)
2 people like this
@bcl_me (582)
• Philippines
30 Jun 07
The Concept of Intelligence There has probably been a concept of intelligence, and a word for it, since people first started to compare themselves with other animals and with one another. We know this at least since thinkers first put pen to paper about the nature of the mind. To the philosopher Plato, in Ancient Greece, the concept was simple: intelligence is that which distinguishes the different social classes, and is unevenly endowed by God. So fixed and innate to the individual was this endowment, he said, that general improvement could be obtained only by restricting reproduction to the 'rulers'. These are the so-called eugenic measures of which we have heard many an echo in modern times. Plato's pupil Aristotle was more egalitarian, arguing that people(other than the slaves, which he barely considered to be human) were much the same intheir faculty of intellect, differences being due to teaching and example (and their possession of this faculty alone distinguished them from the animals, which, he said, were deprived of it). The Romans, too, debated these matters, as did the saints and schools of the Middle Ages, the philisopher/psychologists of the Renaissance... indeed the debate has not ceased, up to the present time. Such a concept, and a word(or words) for it, has been found in every known society, including contemporary tribal societies, in various parts of the world. In everyday discourse today,'intelligent' must be one of the most commonly used terms for describing people. Indeed, people tend to use the term remarkably freely to describe others, and seem to be able to spot it extremely quickly. Interview panels think they can find it, or not, in their candidates in half an hour of searching questions. Teachers usually have no hesitation in describing their pupils as intelligent or not(often in the form of euphemisms like 'bright' or 'dull'). Parents often look for tell-tale signs of it in their own children -- according to some reports, even in the first few days of life! They see the cultivation of their children's innate intelligence as the main function of the school, and often worry about whether it is being exercised or 'stretched' enough for its full development. Popular pressure groups for streaming and gifted children want means of identifying it, as individual 'potential', at the earliest possible age so that special treatments can be designed to help fulfil it. Other public bodies, such as a recent national commission on education, set up by the British Association, stress how, under increased international competition, the cultivation of intelligence has become central to economic success. This pervasiveness of the idea of intelligence is such that most people take it for granted, and don't question it too much. What is post peculiar, though, is that most of the time these people won't worry really be sure what they are talking about: they 'know' what intelligence is, but they can't say what it is. Ask those same parents, teachers, politicians, employers and so on what they mean by intelligence, and the chances are that they will not get far beyond shallow euphemisms such as 'bright', 'quick', 'brainy', 'clever', 'quick to learn', 'smart' and what have you. This paradox - of 'knowing', yet not knowing, what intelligence is - has been shown in a number of more systematic studies.
2 people like this
@Jade27 (67)
• United States
30 Jun 07
I seriously doubt that an IQ test can be seen as objective. For one thing you could take the IQ test on different days and get different scores. I agree with you on it being biased towards english speaking people who are probably good test takers. I know plenty of intelligent people who just do not do well on tests in general. In order to get a real idea of how intelligent someone is and to get a quantification of it one would first have to figure out how they learn and communicate. They give them a test according to their type (and in their language). Then you would at least get a better idea.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
I to doubt about the objectivity of IQ test spcially when it is related to intelligence. Then it is itself devised by humans. I am annoyed when people use it as a perfect measure to berate others. I have no problem with it and I do think that it helps in getting an idea of intelligence but one should be careful relating it to intelligence as a perfect measure. You have proposed an interesting option which is difficult to apply though because it will entail higher costs of testing:-) Thanks for sharing your views, Jade27!:-)
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Sorry, I forgot to welcome you on this community! So Welcome to mylot, Jade27!:-)
1 person likes this
• United States
30 Jun 07
IQ as measured by written tests is more of a measure of the rapidity with which a person can learn material from a book or in a classroom than it is a measure of innate intelligence. Sometimes, these two factors corollate well, sometimes they do not. Therein lies the confusion.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
You have a wise look, redyelloblackdog, over the issue. Yes, sometimes they co relate and at other time they don't. Thanks for sharing your views!:-)
1 person likes this
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
• Canada
30 Jun 07
I would say IQ is definitely not a measure of anything. I don't think much of testing in general. A lot of the smartest people I know didn't graduate highscool. Some of the most naive and silly people (and ignorant) people I know have gone to universities and have letters following their names lol.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
The examples you mentioned is probably the failure of education system, PunkyMcPunk! I don't believe that those who failed were less intelligent, there can be many factors. Thanks for sharing your views:-)
1 person likes this
@wachit14 (3595)
• United States
30 Jun 07
I think IQ is relevent, but the testing methods are not. Tests given to different groups have scored differently and it may be do to cultural differences. On the other hand, EQ (emotional quotient) is probably far more important in dealing with life on a daily basis. I have a brother who has the IQ of a genius, but he is socially inept.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Testing methods can never be perfect, wachit14, as they are too developed by humans. I am amazed when people use it as an absolute measure of intelligence. You are right about the possibility of a genius being generally dumb in life. Thanks for sharing your views, wachit14!:-)
1 person likes this
@youless (112103)
• Guangzhou, China
14 Jul 07
I think so, but now it seems that EQ is much more important than IQ. A high IQ person may not get a success at last, but high EQ persons easily succeed.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
14 Jul 07
You seem to be right, youless. There are other important factors in personality that make a person successful! Thanks for sharing:-)
• Philippines
30 Jun 07
Yes, you are right that IQ tests are not objective and one of the reasons is language barriers since most IQ tests are in English. But there are also IQ tests that do not require you to understand english. Abstract reasoning that uses shapes and figures is a common IQ test. IQ primarily measures intelligence in terms of logic, numbers and analysis because these are skills that one has but does not necessarily have to learn in school but can be DEVELOPED thru education. IQ and performace in school is not the same. A person who has a high IQ does not mean that he/she will top the class. An intelligent person will not top his class if he's lazy and unmotivated. So a pathetic student does not mean low IQ. I believe that IQ is a measure of intelligence...I am a psychology major. It is not absurd quantification but it is not 100% correct. But equally important is EQ (emotional quotient)which measures a persons ability to be successful in life. If you have high EQ, you have self-conficence, self awareness and you are able to adjust during difficult times.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Hello, Christine_margot!:-) Every type of IQ test has it's pros and cons and none can be termed as absolute measure of IQ let alone intelligence. I believe that a person scoring low on abstract reasoning, using shapes and figures, can still be very intelligent person. I have seen very intelligent people failing, scoring very low on these tests. Contrary to that, I have always scored on the highest range but still I can't say that I am a genius. How can a human's developed system truly tell about other's ability! You are right that there are other important things like EQ, but that too is not an absolute measure. I am not against these tests and I do not preach that it's wrong or useless but when I see people abusing it to berate others who scored low, I can't stand it. I don't understand why people take it as an absolute measure of intelligence. Thanks for sharing your views, christine_margot!:-)
1 person likes this
@mari_skye (1637)
• Philippines
30 Jun 07
Beats me! I don't know why people put so much value in it. It has been proven time and again that IQ alone does not give a person many friends. It does not guarantee quality living. I believe more in the balance of things, IQ, EQ and whatever Q's they would like to include, LOL!
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
You have interesting points, mari_skye, I specially liked your point that it is not the only measure of successful life! Thanks for sharing your views, mari_skye!:-)
1 person likes this
30 Jun 07
what you are telling is absolutely correct. Even i have different definition for the IQ. Even everybody has Good IQ in their own way. But most of the people dont know how to utilize it. this is something like liking and disliking. if you started working on your interested field. your IQ automatically will increases. but choosing your interesting field is very difficult part. since most of the time we are doing thing what others are doing, even not thinking our power. thats my point of view.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
you have interesting point of view, reachganeshv, and I really liked your point that every body has a good IQ in his/her own way. Thanks for sharing your views and welcome to mylot!:-)
1 person likes this
• Italy
30 Jun 07
I think IQ measure our intelligence, it's a reliable method.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
I think you are right georgiedior, but then I think that one should be careful as I see people who are not even educated but are very intelligent and wise. what do you think of them? thanks for sharing:-)
1 person likes this
@cdparazo (5765)
• Philippines
30 Jun 07
I do believe that IQ is the measure of intelligence...but its not the only the only measure and certainly not the only intelligence. There are many types of intelligences that an individual has and IQ is considered ABSTRACT intelligence which consists verbal, spacial, numerical, attention span & mental agility. Another intelligence which isn't part of IQ are EMOTIONAL, ARTISTIC & GOOD JUDGMENT OR COMMON SENSE. One isn't dumb when one has low IQ because he/she maybe high on the other aspects of intelligence.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
you have shared some interesting points cdparazo, specially that it's not the only measure of judging human intelligence. It is usually said that people who have higher IQ are low in common sense:-) I liked your last line too:-) Thanks for sharing your views, cdparazo:-)
1 person likes this
@bcl_me (582)
• Philippines
30 Jun 07
Searching - Search for Intelligent Signal from Space
The Concept of Intelligence There has probably been a concept of intelligence, and a word for it, since people first started to compare themselves with other animals and with one another. We know this at least since thinkers first put pen to paper about the nature of the mind. To the philosopher Plato, in Ancient Greece, the concept was simple: intelligence is that which distinguishes the different social classes, and is unevenly endowed by God. So fixed and innate to the individual was this endowment, he said, that general improvement could be obtained only by restricting reproduction to the 'rulers'. These are the so-called eugenic measures of which we have heard many an echo in modern times. Plato's pupil Aristotle was more egalitarian, arguing that people(other than the slaves, which he barely considered to be human) were much the same intheir faculty of intellect, differences being due to teaching and example (and their possession of this faculty alone distinguished them from the animals, which, he said, were deprived of it). The Romans, too, debated these matters, as did the saints and schools of the Middle Ages, the philisopher/psychologists of the Renaissance... indeed the debate has not ceased, up to the present time. Such a concept, and a word(or words) for it, has been found in every known society, including contemporary tribal societies, in various parts of the world. In everyday discourse today,'intelligent' must be one of the most commonly used terms for describing people. Indeed, people tend to use the term remarkably freely to describe others, and seem to be able to spot it extremely quickly. Interview panels think they can find it, or not, in their candidates in half an hour of searching questions. Teachers usually have no hesitation in describing their pupils as intelligent or not(often in the form of euphemisms like 'bright' or 'dull'). Parents often look for tell-tale signs of it in their own children -- according to some reports, even in the first few days of life! They see the cultivation of their children's innate intelligence as the main function of the school, and often worry about whether it is being exercised or 'stretched' enough for its full development. Popular pressure groups for streaming and gifted children want means of identifying it, as individual 'potential', at the earliest possible age so that special treatments can be designed to help fulfil it. Other public bodies, such as a recent national commission on education, set up by the British Association, stress how, under increased international competition, the cultivation of intelligence has become central to economic success. This pervasiveness of the idea of intelligence is such that most people take it for granted, and don't question it too much. What is post peculiar, though, is that most of the time these people won't worry really be sure what they are talking about: they 'know' what intelligence is, but they can't say what it is. Ask those same parents, teachers, politicians, employers and so on what they mean by intelligence, and the chances are that they will not get far beyond shallow euphemisms such as 'bright', 'quick', 'brainy', 'clever', 'quick to learn', 'smart' and what have you. This paradox - of 'knowing', yet not knowing, what intelligence is - has been shown in a number of more systematic studies.
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
Do you now that spamming is not allowed, bcl_me!? plus you didn't actually answer my question. am I wrong?
2 people like this
• United States
30 Jun 07
In my opinion, intelligence can't necessarily be measured but rather estimated. There's no true way to measure an individuals amount of knowledge. I say that IQ is rather a test of logic instead of intelligence.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
30 Jun 07
I liked your comment that it's just an estimate not the measure of intelligence:-) Thanks for sharing, ashnruin, and welcome to mylot!:-)
1 person likes this