I may do magick as you may pray...What's the difference?

United States
July 30, 2007 7:42pm CST
I may do magickal rites as you may pray to your God. If it is for good, how can you call me evil? I just wrote another post on paganism, and I mentioned something of magick, that I have seen before my very eyes, and it was called evil practices. I do not think so. I stated that magick is basically the same as praying. Those that pray, and their prayers come true, I would call that magick, as the prayer would call it a miracle. Magick is ONLY evil if it is used for an evil purpose, perhaps to harm. If I call upon the Gods and Goddesses to help me, then it is good. If I call upon the evil forces to perform these rites or if I wish harm or anything bad upon someone, then, and only then, it is evil. Tell me, do YOU believe I am evil? Why do you truly believe this? I think people should have an open mind and respect others religion, even if it is different then your own. What do you think about this? I mean, because I respect any religion. Tell me your thoughts. Please, oh please, if you think I am evil, give me a DAMN good reason.
6 people like this
18 responses
@Wingedman (238)
• United States
31 Jul 07
The biggest problem there is with clasic western religions is that they are by their nature intolerant of anything that is not "theirs". Little do they realize that the celebration of the Catholic and other christian masses is nothing more than a blood sacrifice ritual that has been performed by various pagan sects for millenia, even before Christ was a twinkle in Mary's eye. They also turn a blind eye to the idea that MASS=RITUAL and PRAYER=SPELL. The Oxford dictionary defines ritual as such: A set of actions, often thought to have symbolic value, the performance of which is usually prescribed by a religion or traditions of a community. Guess what all you Sunday going to church morons..MASS is a RITUAL. You do the same thing every week in repetition and adoration of something someone did years ago to inspire adherence to your code of principles and unite the community. Prayer is defined as the act of attempting to communicate, commonly with a sequence of words, with a deity or spirit for the purpose of worship, requesting guidance, professing sins, or to express one's thoughts or emotions. Spells are often spoken or written or physically constructed using a particular set of ingredients and are designed to bring about a specific effect. Tell me the difference, really? A Spell is a ritual, a ritual is a mass and a mass is composed of prayers. Take the blinders off that have been placed over your eyes by and over zealous self centered religion and learn some acceptance for GOD's Sake.
• United States
31 Jul 07
YES! Thank you so much for the response. I gave you a big +. MASS=RITUAL PRAYER=SPELL That is exactly what I was trying to say. You had this well put.
3 people like this
@Celanith (2334)
• United States
31 Jul 07
Your sure right on that wingedman. As to wicked and evil those of us who read our bible and understand it know what true wickedness and evilness is or is not. Who is behind it and where it comes from. Example Jezebel was very wicked and evil. The witch of Endor God called evil as well. There is magic and magick and evil and wicked and all evil wickedness is sin. If it goes against God and human nature it is evil. Murderers, and rapists are evil.
• United States
1 Aug 07
I think your scope is a little narrow. Evil must only be harmful in some fashion. It oes not have to be anti-God to be evil. Personally, I think the salughter of people for religion is Evil. The mutilation of young girls in Africa for the sake of religion is Evil. But these atrociies and many other done in the name of God. Not to mention all of the things that are being done in the Middle East in the name of Allah. Personally I think Fanaticsm in any form is Evil. Blind Devotion is Evil. Ignorance is evil. Look around you Evil is everyhere, it is our choice as to whether or not we embrace it or seeks a higher more enlightened path with or without God specfically in our corner.
4 people like this
• United States
31 Jul 07
Hi Jennifer! Please do not take what I'm about to say as offensive, I do not want to offend you. I do however, want to give you a little insight into human nature. I read your other post, and any time you put something like that out to the public for open comment you are going to get the expected and the unexpected, the offensive and the inoffensive. That is the nature of humans, you cannot please everyone and no matter how good your intentions someone is going to have an opposing viewpoint. These opposing viewpoints should be taken just as that, someone else's viewpoint, nothing more. If you choose to take it as a personal attack then you are only hurting yourself, trust me you are not bothering the other person in the least, after all that's what they tried to do. It sort of reminds me of an aquaintance I had several years ago. She had tattoos all over her chest, arms and legs. She always wore low cut tank tops and shorts. Any time someone stared at her or gave her a funny look she was horribly offended and would scream at them, "What the ___ are you looking at!" First time I saw her do this I couldn't help but laugh. I told her, you cannot have something like that all over your body and be offended when people look! It's ridiculous, you can't help but look! Did you honestly think you would become invisible with all that color in people's faces? I have tattoos also and I most certainly expect people to look. It's all the same thing, if you are going to be public than expect anything and everything. It's human nature. On the brighter side of human nature, they can only hurt you if you let them. Take care hon :D
• United States
31 Jul 07
Yes, I guess I may have took it too personal. But when someone calls me evil for my beliefs, I will get offended. I believe in only GOOD. I would never wish harm upon someone and I sure as hell do now worship evil. Thank you for the response.
4 people like this
@jbb316 (1779)
• United States
31 Jul 07
People often assume magic and evil and witches and demons are connected. Just look at the popular soap opera "Passions" it has wiches in it who perform magic daily and they claim to be evil. For some that is the only understanding they have of it.
3 people like this
@jbb316 (1779)
• United States
31 Jul 07
I don't think it is evil but I do understand how others might think it is. The way it is portrayed on tv and in the movies almost always makes it look evil. Things people don't understand they are afraid of. Personally, I wouldn't do it just because I don't understand it and was not taught about it. I was taught about praying but I am not saying you are evil just because you are different. You are just different and was taught differently than I. i would be afraid to do something I do not know about.
3 people like this
• United States
31 Jul 07
Yes, you are absolutelly correct. Everywhere you see on tv witches are portrayed at being evil. But, there is also good magick. I wish more people would understand that it can be used for good purposes, just as someone else may pray. Thank you for the response.
3 people like this
• Malaysia
31 Jul 07
well, many religions discourange us to practise magick probably because (in my opinion) God wants us to learn our lessons through hard times n' not getting what we want easily which may be meaningless in our life...but as paganism has already existed before the christian era n' people in europe were practising widely, i don't see why it's considered evil or must be hid from the public....it's part of the culture....it's aready there n' it's our choice whether to do it or not...knowledge can be our best friend or worst enemy...as long as u're doing only good, it's fine!! :)
3 people like this
• United States
31 Jul 07
Jennifer, you do what makes you happy. As long as you are not hurting anyone,or telling people that what you believe is right and they are wrong then continue what you are doing. Everyone has a different belief. As long as you have faith in what you believe and tolerate others beliefs you are not wrong, or evil for that matter. I personally do not believe in a God or Spirit or anything however I do not believe the people that do are wrong. I assume that we can all just agree to disagree and be tolerant of each other. Bottom line, you are not evil, and you are not wrong. Keep practicing whatever it is you believe and continue your faith.
3 people like this
@Galena (9124)
1 Aug 07
there is a difference between magic and prayer. prayer is requesting the intervention of outside forces to help acheive certain outcomes or clarity of mind. Magic doesn't call on that intervention. you raise the energy from yourself. you shape that energy. you direct it. you are taking an active role in changing a situation. an active role in weaving the web. prayer is a passive act, and Magic an active one.
2 people like this
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
3 Aug 07
One could also argue that prayer is invoking, accessing and shapeing the same energies that you speaking of doing with magic. Both can lead to different states of mind, or altered states of being and I would put forth the idea that you more likely to acheive this state with prayer as numerous studies have shown. When praying, one is not being passive. One is connecting to a power both inside and out of themselves, putting mental and spiritual energy into receiving a certain outcome. Sounds very similar to magic doesn't it?
@Galena (9124)
3 Aug 07
the difference is whether you are making the change yourself, or whether that activity, energy change etc. then puts it in the hands of a higher power to do it.
1 person likes this
• China
31 Jul 07
en...difference is that .... it is just the differences
2 people like this
• United States
31 Jul 07
Exactly what I was thinking. Don't answer if you aren't going to leave a real answer.
1 person likes this
@smacksman (6076)
31 Jul 07
Evil is as evil does. When I look at you I get a nice warm feeling so I'm happy with the spell you are casting on me. As has been said above, if you stick your head above the parrapit you are liable to get it knocked off. It is well known that people here who conform to every norm of modern society will attract no adverse comment but will also be very predictable and maybe even a bit dull. So you be yourself and cast a shield of protection about you!
@eden32 (3978)
• United States
31 Jul 07
People fear what they don't understand, and not many mainstream people understand Paganism. As someone has said already, it's also true that movies portray witches as being evil, bad & in league with the devil. I understand no one enjoys being insulted, but try not to let it bother you. People who don't know you & yet have opinions about you aren't worth your time. And I doubt anyone who knows you could think you're evil or bad for your beliefs.
2 people like this
• Canada
31 Jul 07
My dear you are not evil unless you use your prctice to harm. and which you dont, you stated other wise. hence forth you are not evil. Like you said and I agree a prayer is no different then a person who prctice for the good.
1 person likes this
@rowantree (1190)
• United States
1 Aug 07
Basically, there isn't a difference. Both methods are contacting a higher power in order for assistance. lol...no, I do not believe you are evil. Maybe if I were a Christian, I'd have a different response, but I'm not. I'm Pagan. I'm going to go ahead & say what's on my mind. Personally, in my own opinion, I believe that magick is a better method than prayer. Why... Well, with magick, I am asking the Universe for assistance. I'm asking all of Nature. I'm asking for assistance from the God and Goddess, as well as other Gods and Goddesses. When I do a magickal rite, my energy pathways are clear. I am able to connect to everything and everyone. Can a Christian say the same thing? No. Christians aren't supposed to care about their energy pathways. So they're clogged up and they feel bogged down without understanding why. They pray, but they pray to one God. They don't acknowledge Nature/Universe and wonder why they don't feel connected. I realize there are a lot of Christians who do care about their energy pathways, no matter what their bible says. And there are Christians who do feel connected to Nature/Universe. But the majority are as I described above.
@Galena (9124)
2 Aug 07
Magic isn't requesting intervention. in a Magical context, requesting intervention would more accurately be known as petitioning.
@rowantree (1190)
• United States
2 Aug 07
asking for assistance, requesting intervention or petitioning - hmm. I can't say they're all the same. I wrote asking for assistance...my own belief is that asking for intervention would be quite different. If I ask for assistance with a problem, I'm doing the work but request the Energies clear the path, so to speak. I can't really be more specific than that without giving a specific spell/prayer. If I request intervention (which I've never done), my belief there is that a person is requesting the Energies take over the situation - not something I could ever recommend. You have a really great point about the difference between Magick and Prayer - that Magick requires you to be an active participant, while a prayer does not. This is usually the case, but I have known people to pray and still be an active participant in what they're praying for. Those people though, are not the norm!
@writersedge (22579)
• United States
1 Aug 07
I know people who run around saying all kinds of things are evil. Basically anything that isn't part of their beliefs is evil. Sad, but true. I try to explain it this way: I have a pen in my hand. Is is good or evil? Usual answer: A pen isn't good or evil. Right: Same thing with Ouiji boards, seance tables, tarot cards, pendulums, etc. They then want to keep all those things evil. So I try again. A pen is good if it signs a peace tready. Agreed? Yes or disagrees. A pen is evil if I use it to poke someone in the eye, right? Usually, no. Sometimes they say yes. OK, now do you get it? (I tell them), a pen is an object. An object is not good or evil. It's what you do with it, the intent of the person with it, that is good or evil. I agree with you, something is only evil if there is evil intent. But I've met people that say everything that isn't part of their religion is evil. Someone once told me that there is a part of the Bible that says something like suffer a witch not or suffer a witch not to live. That may have been a bad translation. Satan worshiper, as in anti-God worshiper, may have been the original translation. At any rate, be careful and don't allow any personal information where someone can find you on the internet. some people are nuts. Be careful. Take care
@Galena (9124)
1 Aug 07
the nearer description I've heard from the mistranslation was said to be closer to Poisoner.
1 person likes this
4 Aug 10
The people who believe and say these things are simply ignorant of what it means to be pagan, wiccan or simply a practitioner of magick. There beliefs are fueled by the media and mainstream "true religions" such as christianity that have twisted the symbols and traditions into somehting unrecogniseable. For example, satanism took the pentagram, turned it upside-down and made it "evil". Now no-one cares which way around it is, they just think it is always evil and stay ignorant of its true meaning. Did you know that the traditional image of satan with horns, goatlegs and a pitchfork, was taken from the pagan horned god of fertility, back when christianity first became mainstream, in an attempt to persecute followers of the old traditions. People dislike what they don't understand and they rarely bother to research something they don't like. It's quite sad and instead of being offended I'm simply sorry that they have such a closed mind and can't ee the wonder that magickal practitioners find in the natural world. One thing i always say to people who claim paganism and magick to be Satanic is this = Satan is a Christian concept and paganism and magick have been around far longer than christianity. therefor it cannot be satanic as "satan" did not exist when it began. Blessed Be Birdie -
@msjigga (866)
• United States
27 Aug 07
Hi Jennifer21! I completely agree with you I believe people who do evil things to others are evil. I do not believe magick is evil just the people behind the magick which can be the same type of people praying. All prayers are NOT GOOD.
@balasri (26577)
• India
26 Aug 07
It is your personal wish how you pray.Why should we judge you.In Hinduism too magic is an accepted form of worship. Hinduism is one of the few religions that has sacred texts like the Vedas that discuss both white and black magic. The Atharva Veda is a veda that deals with mantras that can be used for both good and bad. The word mantrik in India literally means "magician" since the mantrik usually knows mantras, spells, and curses which can be used for or against forms of magic.
@magica (3710)
• Bulgaria
3 Aug 07
Some people have unconventional skills and there is nothing evil in it. I am against the blind refusal of everything just because the religious dogmas are against it.There are different forms of skills. The problem is in the inside motivation of the person and how he will use them, for which proposals...
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
3 Aug 07
Well you would really have to define the magick, and magickal rites being performed to receive an honest answer. I am far more open minded than most since I have stuidied quite a few religions including many pagan ones (and also including wicca). I have seen very few pagan act that I would classify as outright evil and sorry to say that most acts are not even magical, but rather groups pretending or more playing at being magical than actually do anything of any real signifigance. Really though, Judgement plays a huge part any ritual act. One may think they are doing good, but rather are being less helpful than they might think, the reverse is true as well. Take for instance someone who is sick, people may pray or invoke magick (I really hate that word, as if the k makes it real) to heal them, but sickness serves a very good purpose, and could be a very good learning experience for both the ill and there friends and family. Others may try to win love, or money but both of those are likey to have more negative effects than positive ones, so it's really a touchy subject with me.
@procezx (76)
• India
2 Aug 07
Jennifer have you ever studied the "Buddhist Tantra" Or the Indian System Of Tantra In which "Aghori- a class of penance doers who do all kind of black magic even converting any thing to anything and controlling the all sort of black powers" do some thing like you mentioned what you do in Paganism. See If you just go on to the Indian System Of tantra then I feel you will just realize that nothing is good or bad its our inceptions in relations to our own ideas and the beliefs that go on. Well you are quiet true in your point that unless you not do harm to anybody whatever you do is correct. Each and every act is prayer to God that is the very basis of the earth religions. But how come you can say that whatever act you do are right or wrong. Let me say you a clear example like if you just kill some human its a grave offense but if you kill a person who was to attack and kill you then you are not doing an offense although the acts are the same. Similar is the case of soldier who kills for motherland although its a killing but it is right on one part to save motherland from invaders. Similar is the case with the acts performed by your magical rites. Nothing is magical. If you just wish to understand when you burn a piece of coal then it gives you energy more you burn the coal more you will get the energy. But if you perform some system that breaks the atom of coal then you receive the enormous amount of uncontrolled energy. The Pagan RITES are similar to the reverse engineering that is some sort of atomic explosion in side our own body systems to rise the powers whom we call super-humans do so. If you have seen Spider man then you may particularly recall a quote "Great Powers have great responsibilities attached to them." So do not worry about the peoples say what just do your work and do only benefits of others. So its not so much of being a person to become conscious about whosoever is calling you evil because people are so scary of every thing unknown that they start blaming any one who wishes to practice that unknown thing. If you feel scary or any one is hurting you about being yourself then either do not let anyone know what you are doing or just explain to whom is so scary of these things very clearly and provide him/her with that knowledge. And to help other is no doubt the best practice of the world and it is only way to be human. ***** You cannot use any powers for wrong purpose in anyway this is natures first rule and last rule. Even the effect may show you you have done harm but in end of the episode the evil does looses. If you have not got any adverse effects and you feel a peaceful heart then you are right in your way to beneficial effects of your powers but it should also be remembered that some people are very allergic to these things so do not tell them what you do.