Do you expect the original poster to not defend their position?

@cyntrow (8524)
United States
August 7, 2007 1:50pm CST
OK, here is the deal. When I post a discussion, I expect people to agree with me and I expect people to disagree with me. Neither of these two options offend me. This is the definition of a discussion in my opinion. My problem is that when I reply to one of my respondents and it becomes a debate, many times they become offended and accuse me of getting upset because they disagree with me. Does this make sense? here is my example. Me: "I think the sky is blue" Jane doe: "No the sky is green" Me: "There is proof that the sky is blue." Jane Doe: "Don't post a discussion if you don't want people disagreeing with you." I don't understand this. If I post a discussion it is something that I beleive. If you believe differently, please do not expect me not to counter. I wouldn't expect you not to counter. Any thoughts on this?
6 people like this
16 responses
@sunshinecup (7881)
7 Aug 07
LOL, I get a few of them and I find them funny, like childish funny. All it is they think they should counter you, but it should end there and they can go on feeling gooey good about themselves. So when you toss a wrench in their plans they have a hissy fit. I just ignore their rant and continue to ask them if they would like to support their position. Most of the time they don’t bother with anything else. But I agree a discussion is more than a statement, a counter and that’s it. It takes dialog on both parts, questions and statements. I love a good debate and I always walk away feeling like I learned something. Just some are not mature enough for them. BTW, the sky is green. Cut grass during and wind storm and see! :oD
3 people like this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
I find it amusing, but frustrating. Most of these are in the victim mode. "I can say what I want, but if you disagree with me after I have disagreed with you, than you are wrong and being mean." It makes no sense to me. The best discussions I have ever had are based on a back and forth between me and someone who doesn't agree with me. If it weren't for these, I wouldn't stay here. It would be too boring. My grass doesn't usually get to the sky, but I have been seeing a lot of gray lately and a lot less blue.
1 person likes this
• United States
7 Aug 07
Haha! That has happened to me too. Someone once actually told me not to reply to their discussion because they were only looking for people who agreed. She actually said that, LOL. I don't know, I'm not really the sort of person that gets offended if someone corrects me, I actually appreciate it when I'm giving someone wrong information and someone corrects that. But I guess that's why life is so exciting since everyone is so different, heh! I'd say not to let that stuff get to you, there's always people that get offended and that say unnecessary things if someone points out they're mistaken. It's all part of human nature to get defensive when we're being challenged, even though half the time we aren't! Lol.
2 people like this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
I know you and I have butted heads on a topic or two and they have been great discussions. I would hate it if everyone agreed with me. That would make life so boring. I enjoy debating and I just thought everyone would be as adult. Take care. I know I'll see you again.
1 person likes this
• United States
7 Aug 07
We have?! I'm sorry I don't remember... I pretty much only identify myLotters by their avatar and you don't have one. You should get one, man! ;)
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
It was a gay conversation. Maybe that will bump your memory. LOL I generally remember names. But I remember names in life. many people have a problem with names. That's cool.
1 person likes this
@patgalca (14649)
• Orangeville, Ontario
7 Aug 07
I agree with you. This is a DISCUSSION forum. There are so many people posting non-discussion posts, and then there are those who start arguments and call people names. Is it any wonder why people aren't responding to posts and/or are leaving myLot? Things certainly have changed since I joined in December when discussions were good old healthy discussions.
2 people like this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
I tend to shy away from the "fluff" questions. "Blue eyes or Brown", "Coke or Pepsi". When I post a discussion I expect debate. I love it. But I don't agree with people telling me that I should not reply to their response. It's just absurd.
1 person likes this
@laydee (12813)
• Philippines
8 Aug 07
discussion - 

Debate (North American English) or debating (British English) is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than logical argument, since it includes persuasion which appeals to the emotional responses of an audience, and rules enabling people to discuss and decide on differences, within a framework defining how they will interact.

Informal debate is a common occurrence, but the quality and depth of a debate improves with knowledge and skill of its participants as debaters. Deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts engage in debates. The outcome of a debate may be decided by audience vote, by judges, or by some combination of the two. Formal debates between candidates for elected office, such as the leaders debates and the U.S. presidential election debates, are common in democracies.
dis·cus·sion –noun an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate. I agree. Discussion is supposed to have opinions. It's the sharing of ideas. I think the main reason why people have started arguing or that myLot has changed is because there are a lot of people who are only in here for the sake of the money. And at the same time, they're not really here to listen to other people's ideas. They're here to impose their own thoughts and can't accept that they could somehow be wrong too.
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
8 Aug 07
Intersting topic. I would say it all depends on how the topic is posted... If it's posed as a question, asking "what do you think about this?" then I wouldn't expect it to turn into a heated debate. I would imagine that the original poster is just looking for opinions, not an argument. If the original poster is simply sharing an observation or a belief, then someone else comes along and ridcules or insults the original poster for his or her belief, than I would expect that person to stand up for themselves. There is a difference between discussion and argument and debate. Sometimes there is a fine line between a debate and an argument. Although I've been involved in arguments at times, I think they really are a waste of time. Generally, once it turns into an argument, boths sides lose interest in listening to eachother and start focusing on trying to prove that they are right. Everybody comes away feeling worse for it. Well, with the exception of a few who actually enjoy arguing, I suppose.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
my point is that when I post and someone counters, I have every right to counter back. Likewise If I post to someone's discussion and I counter in reply, I expect them to counter back. This is what makes a discussion. As long as we don't resort to name calling it is excellent. however, if a person responds to a discussion of mine and doesn't expect me to conter their response, it is no good for them to even respond.
@fpd1955 (2075)
• United States
8 Aug 07
They have every right to defend their position. Some respondents just don't like to hear an opinion that doesn't agree with their own. When they are outmatched in their argument, they start getting nasty. PEACE
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
I'm sure you agree with this. Discussion is a give and take. I wouldn't want to post a discussion in which all respondents agreed with me. Likewise, I wouldn't want to post a response, contrary to the original poster and recieve not feedback to the contrary.
@Daelin (683)
• Brazil
8 Aug 07
"Jane Doe" comes from another planet, a very beautiful and perfect world where people live in agreement and no one can really discuss anything. Ok, her planet is not that beautiful after all :D I like to read different opinions too. It is nice to see how other people think about the same subject.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
I agree. I expect people to disagree. I post to a number of controversial subjects. I love a good debate. And a person doesn;t have to agree wth me to be my friend. But I will never, ever play the victim in any debate. You have every right to disagree with me as I have to rebute. Makes life interesting.
@kamran12 (5555)
• Pakistan
8 Aug 07
Hello cyntrow! I don't know from where to start about this issue, cyntrow. Being in all types of controversial discussions right from start, I have experienced this behavior, not only as a discussion poster but more as a responder. Religion, Spirituality, Politics, War, Social issues, and Philosophy have all been topics of my interest and debate here. From being called an ignorant, mad, out of mind, a liar, fabricator, following delusions to a victim of deception or even hallucination, I have been called every name. Sometimes it pained me (especially being called a liar, as not even my adversaries call me that in my real life and they believe if I state something) and sometimes I just laughed. But one thing is for sure and that is, these discussions were the very reason which forced me to stay here, I wouldn't have stayed otherwise, for more than two weeks here. I have experienced posters calling me out even for responding as they said I shouldn't have responded, if I didn't agree with them. I have also experienced discussions, ironically so, where the poster started bashing me for stating my point of view while he himself asked for opinions and later said that he was not looking for debate. I have also seen discussions where a poster will start a discussion and specifically one group will attack together not only abusing, name calling and spilling hatred against the poster but also their prophet, doctrine and holy scripture. I have also seen posts utterly mean spirited which star with disrespect for other religions. I have also seen posts where the otherwise peaceful and moral poster would not hesitate to state that one country should nuke the other. I have voiced my opinions in all types of these posts and have had my share of disrespect, abuse, name calling and hatred. I do not understand why people don't allow others for things they themselves want, why they disrespect others when they are seeking respect, why they urge love while spreading hatred, why they consider themselves all knowing and more intelligent than every one else. When I respond, I try to be respectful and try to present my case with maximum possible reasonability because I consider that, it's not only the poster who will read my response but also there will be many others going through the discussion. So, if I am disrespectful, mean or unreasonable, I am only going to hurt myself. If I am not allowing disagreement and poster's right to defend him/herself, I am only losing respect and reducing my chances to be heard by the reasonable audience. A debate bears maximum fruit when people are allowed to voice their opinions without any loss of respect and dignity. I must say that many of the debaters that I encountered were respectful, respectable and reasonable people from all religions, political affiliations, cultures, countries and social back grounds. There are few who are otherwise. I try to avoid them but sometimes, I can't resist. I just hope that people enjoy debate in it's true spirit and help each other in understanding, sharing knowledge and wisdom.
@kamran12 (5555)
• Pakistan
8 Aug 07
BTW, sky is not blue. It's the scattering of light not the color of sky which is blue! and then it is blue with white flakes at my side and I have a proof, I can see it:-)
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
LOL, my sky was grey today. I think the problem is when people take the victim role. If I rebute their response, they tell me that I should not post if I do not expect altering viewpoints. I DO expect altering viewpoints. I don't appreciate the victim stance. I say, if yo don't want someone to counter you, don't respond. By the way, being called a liar is a discussion ender for me. There is no greater word for me. I may lie if I don't like the hat my sister is wearing, but I do not lie in life. To say that I do is to say that there is not further reason for conversation.
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5555)
• Pakistan
13 Aug 07
Sorry, cyntrow, for not coming back earlier as I have been offline, lately. I think the major problem is peoples' fake ego which doesn't allow them to even have an opposing view. When we don't enter into a discussion for learning, it's likely that we would not accept or appreciate argument. Unfortunately, many people on here don't like to have a "discussion" when they enter into a discussion!:-) Only a couple of people here have called me a liar. It was difficult for me to continue but I did ask them about where I lied to them and both times they admitted their error. I try to forgive people if the attack is only directed towards me but I do understand that it's difficult. Now, why did you post and asked about sky color if you don't accept my description of sky color!!??, LOL!
@Aghorri (86)
• United States
8 Aug 07
I think it's inevitable in any discussion that there will be disagreement. Without disagreement, there's nothing to discuss, is there? But the way to respond is also important. Too many react to a differing opinion as a personal attack and everything gets heated. We need to be able to separate our opinions from who we are and realize that, just because someone doesn't agree with something we've said, it doesn't mean we're being attacked. I am who I am and I remain constant - my opinions may change. And that's another thing: when we start a discussion, what are our motives? Are we starting it because we want to convert everyone to the way we see things? Or are we open to change ourselves? It's when we refuse to be changed that arguments start and everything becomes too personal.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
I'm talking about if I post a discussion and someone counters my discussion and then they do not expect me to counter them. I expect this when I respond in a differing opinion. It is the give and take that makes a good debate. If a person does't want the original poster to reply to their response, they shouldn't respond, as they claimed with the discussion that I am concerned about.
• United States
10 Aug 07
Exactly, Cyntrow, but I was pointing out why people sometimes react badly to adverse comments. We can complain forever about such behavior but, until we understand it, we can never rise above it and move on. :)
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
10 Aug 07
Right On!!
@JC1969 (1226)
• United States
10 Aug 07
I'm on your side with respect to this discussion. The whole premise of Mylot, to begin with, was to promote conversation in the form of written discussions. In order to do that, there must be a back and forth communication that occurs. Unfortunately you see more often then not on Mylot, members throwing some debatable question at you and never even giving their personal perspective of insight. Other people, who may be their added friends, come and respond, but original poster of discussion never returns to defend or explain or respond to anyone, with respect to their question. So, where's the discussion? They have failed to keep with the premise of what Mylot saw as their vision. Then you have other members like you mention. Their sole purpose here is to pick you apart or just cause drama where there is really no need for it. There are also so many members that become so defensive when people are in opposition to their opinion, and then their are still others that have no idea how to debate properly or respectfully so that everyone walks away enlightened even if they don't agree. The type of member you describe obviously doesn't know that when a topic is heated and debatable there will be a normal tendency to defend our position against those who are in opposition. This of course should be done respectfully and tactfully without throwing out venom and insults, but nevertheless, we tend to defend our position--it's a debate right? LOL You just cannot please everyone.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
13 Aug 07
No, you cannot please everyone. I do, however expect people on this site to be adults. My youngest kids cry when I disagree with them. I really don't expect the same thing from grown ups. Oh well. I hope the people or person that I am referring to will see this discussion and get it. I doubt it. LOL Thanks for responding. Take care.
@JC1969 (1226)
• United States
13 Aug 07
Hey cyntrow, Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if adults could act like adults and also act civilized LOL. When I see people that are like what you described in forums or messageboards, I think to myself that this person must also be like that in their offline reality world too.
@sid556 (31003)
• United States
7 Aug 07
yes..I agree with you entirely. What is wrong is when someone goes to extremes to defend their point and belittles or resorts to name calling...then it stops being healthy dialogue and becomes angry. You can defend a point with respect that the other person has a different view without resorting to insults and name calling. I enjoy a healthy debate and do learn from opposing veiws and perhaps looking at something from a different angle. I find it usually isnt the person that posts the thread that causes problems but someone that pounces in from nowhere and just starts slamming whoever doesn't agree with them.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
8 Aug 07
Yeah, and if I respond to a post disagreeing with someone, I expect that person to rebute, although I expect as much respect as I have given. Thanks
1 person likes this
@sid556 (31003)
• United States
8 Aug 07
exactly and anyone that enters into that same post should treat you and the poster with respect. I had one such discussion (okay a few) on the same sort of topics and I was trying to respond to a person's post and this other person just kept picking my words apart...and wrongly i mite add. It felt the same as when someone walks in on a private conversation and just takes over and disrupts without even a clue to what you are really talking about. In controversial issues especially, you have to be extra careful how you choose your words. People have their own opinions and for a reason.
• Australia
7 Aug 07
A good point cyntrow. In my opinion the whole purpose of myLot is to discuss (debate) topics and share ideas. How boring it would be if everyone believed exactly the same! It would be a real conversation stopper. When I first started here, I met some people who had completely opposite ideas from mine. I am a Christian whose relationship with my Saviour is the most important thing in my life. I met atheists, agnostics, wiccans and pagans of various sorts. We had several debates, but all were very courteous and respectful of the others' beliefs. There was no abuse or even intolerance. Some of those people are among the ones I admire most. One pagan is one of the most sincere and caring people I know and she puts many Christians to shame. Some I count as very good friends and I continue a rich friendship with two of them who are no longer members, by email. I have met some people here on myLot who are abusive and intolerant of others' views. I avoid them, not because there is no logical reply to them, but because it is a waste of time to talk with such closed minds who only want to hit out at any who oppose their own views. If anyone disagrees with my opinions (as people do and should) they are welcome to discuss them and debate them, but I expect all debates to be conducted in a friendly, courteous and respectful manner.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
i started this discussion because of one I responded to. It was a personal discussion and the respondent disagreed. Fine. Then when the original poster rebutted it, as did I, she got upset and suggested that he should post if he didn't expect people to disagree. It got me thinking about the number of times I have seen this response. I personally love debate. Some of the best conversations I have had were with people who didn't agree with me. It wasn't hostile and there was no agreement in the end. But we did agree to disagree and go on. But it was fun. I wonder if people who can't handle rebuttle, just can't handle debate; or if they just don't feel learned enough to rebute. If so, they should say so. I have said so. I have expressed my feelings and then let the replier know that I just wasn't educated enough. I'm rambling. Thanks for responding. You and I have responded to the same conversations at times. We share a common belief, but not completely. You are always respectful. I hope I am also.
• Australia
10 Aug 07
I understand your viewpoint. I wish there were more here who felt the same way. There used to be, but most have gone. Thanks for the rating.
• United States
7 Aug 07
Yeah i find that there are some debators on here. I usually disregard the ignoranace and just keep on replying. It kinda helps me out with getting my quota in for comments. I know its fustrating, i did a post on abortion and well we all know that is so controversal. I felt like i had a harrasser in there who responded to just about all my comments people left me. But i think i am onto that person and why they do what they do. I am getting a bit bored but i agree you dont want to feel harrassed either. This should be fun as well as making some money!
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
I'm here for the fun and the intellectual stimulation. THe money is enough for a couple gallons of milk and a few loaves of bread. I dig debates as long as they are respectful. I just don't expect people to respond to my discussions if they don't expect me to retort their responses. That's what discussion is about.
@Calais (10900)
• Australia
7 Aug 07
Oh my goodness, I have seen this so many times..People I suppose cant defend themselves so they turn on the nasty button...I hate it and they do become so rude, its totally uncalled for..
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
7 Aug 07
It's childish and we're all suppposed to be adults here. I just say, if they don't want people to retort their responses, they shouldn't respond. Debates are great if they are civil.
• Canada
8 Aug 07
I reply when i disagree or when i truly agree to something i did not post.. but when the guy says exactly the same thing as i do i see that there is no reason to say anything... yea, and those types of people are funny, its a debating topic..
8 Aug 07
i can't understand this either, i love a good debate, different opinions are what makes a discussion, but i do think it is stupid when people take offence. i may not nesecarily agree with someones post but i will at least considerthere point of view and compare it with my own, that is the point of me setting a question. Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions but everyone also has to be open minded to ther peoples, even if you don't agree you should at least consider it.
@kelly60 (4548)
• United States
8 Aug 07
I have come across this too and I think that it is ridiculous that some people can be so childish that they can't carry on an intelligent discussion without getting upset about it. The fact is that we don't always agree, but we should be able to agree to disagree.