Please, a penny for your thoughts!

ornate steeple - Christian church ornament on steeple
@barehugs (8973)
Canada
September 2, 2007 8:23pm CST
Although I'm not Christian, I do believe in God. I've always believed that God has given us Free Will. Free Will means that we are free to choose how we live our lives. If this is true, how is it possible to sin against God? Either we have Free Will, or we must live within a Series of Laws Laid down by God that regulate our daily lives.( On threat of burning in Hell Forever). There seems to be a discrepancy here. Please help me with this!
7 people like this
20 responses
@archer1811 (1098)
• Philippines
3 Sep 07
I am a christian, and yes we have our own Free Will and of course understanding, but this doesnt mean that we are free to do sins, God made us understand what is wrong and right, does He gave us the ten commandments to follow so that we will not burn in hell forever. Free will means freedom to do good and freedom to chose which one you want to live being a sinner or being a good one. That's why God made us human, human with wisdom to know whats wrong and whats right, animals dont have the mind that the human had. Thats why being a human we have our responsibilities to do good and avoid sin.
3 people like this
@4mymak (1793)
• Malaysia
3 Sep 07
very well put, and i agree with you totally !
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
3 Sep 07
I'm still wondering How we can have free will and still sin against God. I can't believe He would Give us something and then renege on his Gift. My God is not that kind of God!
1 person likes this
• Philippines
3 Sep 07
Free will is not absolute. Yes you may have free will but you also have responsibility. You sin against God when you use free will to hurt other people. If it were absolute then there shouldnt be any more laws.
2 people like this
• United States
3 Sep 07
I think of the rules as suggestions instead of demands because I am here to tell you that if all you have to do to go to hell is break just one rule, hell will be more crowed than a airport during Christmas vacation time.i believe like you that free will is G-d given.And with free will you can decide which path is good for you. True there are rules , but you still get to choice which is best for you.
2 people like this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
I gave you best response because you make the most sense! Sure there are rules, but no Blind Obedience. And nobody is going to burn in Hell! I've always stayed away from Airports at Christmas just for that reason! Thanks again Sararuthbeth!
3 people like this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
I like your philosophy. No Loving God would condemn his Children to Hell. There is absolutely No Question about that! Thanks for your retort!
2 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
4 Sep 07
I was raised catholic and by age 6 i feared hell...confession all of it...its all based on fear and it does work when you are a little kid. by the time you are 12 and realize you are dammed to hell anyway you just throw up your arms and have fun. Im kind of kidding here. I NEVER from as young as 5 did not question this entire religion thing. I am however open to that there is something larger than us...it wont be found in a church i'm sure of that. Im sure it has something to do with being a good person. when I do something wrong I feel it deep in my gut even if no one else knows....thats my signal for change in my life. There has to be a reason why we are here with all these emotions good and bad....None of us knows nor will we. I just go with my gut and try to be a good person.
2 people like this
@tholitz (1127)
• Philippines
10 Sep 07
I think we have miss something here. The free will that God is giving us is the choice we make in our life, it's either to believe and follow Him (obedience to His words and commandment) or just what have you said, living the life that you wanted (disobedience). God had not made us robot that we just have to follow what He says. But he had given us our own mind and thinking that we could have a choice to make (free will). I'm not questioning your belief but I think it's very contradicting that you believe in someone that you don't even follow or obey. Just my opinion.
2 people like this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
11 Sep 07
Thanks for your opinion!
2 people like this
@fizz11 (69)
• United States
4 Dec 07
When one looks inside themselves, they find the limitations of getting to do whatever they want. Free will is a subjective thing. There is an old Bob Dylan Song that you probably know that says: It may be the devil, or it may be the Lord But your gonna have to serve somebody. *food for thought mode* A quote from a friend of mine named Lora: 'We are all a slave to something/someone our conscience demands. When we are not, sometimes we find ourselves a slave to something beyond our conscience as well as beyond our control.'
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Dec 07
Our Creator makes no restrictions to our Free Will. For example We are free to Create our lives,moment by moment, as we desire them to be. WE do this unconsciously, because we are Creators too.
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Yes, that is the biggest flaw in the abrahamic god... you cant believe in that AND free will.
1 person likes this
• Canada
4 Sep 07
i dont know what you believe... and im not judging god.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
How do you Know what I believe? And by what Authority do you judge the Abrahamic God?
1 person likes this
@CaitBaby (446)
• United States
3 Sep 07
This is a good discussion. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to respond to it. I understand what you are saying. Why would God grant us free will if there is a chance that we will sin against him?
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
3 Sep 07
Yes, you understand the question. I believe God has given us free will, and to me that covers everything. A gift of Love that covers everything! So we are free to choose our life style,and no matter what we choose its OK with Him!
1 person likes this
• United States
3 Sep 07
If we are given free will, why the threats of burning forever in hell? That is a good question as well. I believe the whole hell thing is just used by some religions to convert others to their religion. Zoroastrians were the first known religion that used a place of hellfire for an evil soul. But the difference is, Zoroastrian's version of hell was only temporary because it was used to purify the soul before it went to heaven. Pretty cool huh?
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
well I'm pretty sure its religion not God who threatens us with Hell fire. No Loving God would ever do that!
1 person likes this
• United States
3 Sep 07
Well if you are truly struggling with this, then that is a good thing, that means the Holy Spirit is softening your heart and your blinders will come off...otherwise what I am going to say will simply add to your confusion. First, all things were created by God for His glory. We were created to serve Him, however, He gave us free will because the angels' job is to worship him. So we have a choice to serve Him or not, just like our own children have the choice to obey us or not. When we choose salvation, to serve and follow God, we gain freedom. Yes to many who are not serving God that makes no sense. BUT, we are all created to worship something and until we find that something whether we know it or not we wander, looking for it. I have a screaming baby so I have to go and I am not able to concentrate at this moment so if I have not answered your question, please feel free to ask me more.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Your offering of confusion has been more than enough. Thanks!
1 person likes this
@lingli_78 (12822)
• Australia
3 Sep 07
i will try to answer your question as best as i can... God creates us with free will BUT WITHIN HIS BOUNDARY. He doesn't want us to become like a robot (which He can if He wants to)... the true meaning of sin is MISSING THE TARGET or GOING OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDARY... it is like we are living in a country with a law... we are free to live in whichever way we want as long as we abide with the law... when we break the law, then we will be arrested and put to jail... so yeahhh... we are free to make choices as long as we make the right choices and still within the boundary...
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Now Just a Minute! If God gave us free will you can bet your bottom dollar that its FREE WILL! God has never done anything by halves, and He hasn't made a mistake in a Very Long Time! Either we are Free, or we aren't free. Which is it?
1 person likes this
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
3 Sep 07
God has given us free will. It works the same as being a citizan of any country. In the USA we are free to live where we want to and how we want to. we are also free to commit crimes but when we do we have to pay the consicuinces. It's the same with God. You are free to follow him or not. He wants us to love him for who he is. By the way you don't burn in hell for ever. That's impossible if you think about it. You burn until your are consumed. Every one no matter where or how we live must follow rules. God wants us to love him and want to follow his rules. If we do because we want to then we are free.
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Everyone agrees that we have been given free will! You declare that we also pay the consequences. How can there be any consequences to our Gift of Free Will? do you understand the word, "Freedom"? would God renege on his Promise? (I doubt that!)
1 person likes this
• India
3 Sep 07
The set of rules you are referring to has not been created not by God, but by man on behalf of God. If Jesus says ‘love thy neighbour and turn your other cheek if slapped on one’ (my Christian friends pls forgive my limited knowledge), then do we follow these to the teeth? No, we don’t. its our free will that prevents us from doing so. But dangle the law in front and we will follow, with the assurance that our grievances will be dealt with in the Court of Law and we need not take law into our own hands. So you see, God has not made the rules Himself neither can He come down personally to implement these. But He has given man enough brains to cultivate the rights and shun and the wrongs in order to create and maintain a set of laws conforming to the requirements of a civilized society on earth, where inspite of the ‘free will’, man will have enough obligations, bindings and humanitarian civic sense to follow a certain set of rules which aim to preserve a sense of order among God’s creations.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
yes I agree with you that Religion has made the rules not God.
1 person likes this
@funnycole (392)
• United States
3 Sep 07
I think free will and sinning against God are two completely separate entities and the bottom line is that The 10 Commandments were written for a reason. Number one being "Thou shalt love the Lord your God...
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Yes, I agree with that! "Thou shalt Love the Lord your God!" How can you Love the Lord when he threatens you with Hellfire? THis makes No sense to me!
1 person likes this
@loralee (542)
• United States
19 Nov 07
Like many of your discussions, within lies another great and thought-provoking question. It is definitely a hard one to answer, though not utterly impossible. I have wondered this also and have gone in search of the answer. I will try to answer it as clearly and truthfully as possible. Answer: I feel that love is the dictator of my heart and soul, so my will hence has a heart and soulful dictator. I am held to my own high standards and laws and the love flowing through me that gives me the wisdom to know right from wrong and not confuse or split hairs for the fun of it or out of boredoms sake. Below is another 'non-christian' 'spiritual' influence that speaks of this question and also has an answer. It comes from a man named Aleister Crowley. It is hard to get the answer unless read in its entirety: http://perdurabo10.tripod.com/id386.html
@fizz11 (69)
• United States
4 Dec 07
I can't believe you found this incredible link and didn't tell me about it pronto! I forgive you. ;) Great response.
1 person likes this
• Philippines
4 Sep 07
You're right, this is sort of confusing. I didn't get to see that before. Indeed God gave us a set of rules to help us live good lives that will bring us to salvation. He would want us to follow faithfully but he also wants us to decide to do so for ourselves. He wanted us to be with Him out of love not because he programmed us to do so. This is just like a love story with your spouse. Would you like to have a spouse who is with you because you forced him/her to be with you? This sounds crazy but that's what the situation will be like if he didn't give us free will. He wants us to earn salvation. Much like the women like the men to earn their love by sweeping them off their feet. All the suitors are free to choose their tactics but the woman has to choose the one who has the greatest love for her(normally). Well, I hope that short explanation helped you. This is quite a task to fulfill.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
I think you are confusing God's set of Rules, with God's Gift of Freewill. Don't you understand that His Freewill sets us free of his Rules? Its either one or the other! It can't be both. Freedom, is freedom from Rules. The Church is to Blame for this confusion. Its the Church that threatens Hellfire, not God. The church is concerned with Money and Power, and their growing lack of influence in the world of today.
1 person likes this
• United States
3 Sep 07
Free will is really something that dosnt make since to me. I'll tell you im agnostic if not atheist about things after not getting any kind of sensation or meaning out of religion. God dosnt make any since to me. If we have free will god still knows what we do so if we do bad things its because god made us that way. religion dosnt make any since. QUIT IT.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
16 Oct 07
Alright, I Quit it along time ago!
1 person likes this
@msqtech (15074)
• United States
15 Jan 08
Free will is the ability to do as we please and accept the consequences. Those consequences are place upon us by nature, other humans, or God. We can't choose how others respond but we can choose our behaviors. Thus we have free will and also consequences for our actions. No discrepancy. Sin is what we do that is against our beliefs. When we are judged by God we will accept the consequences of our sin. Peace to you and may our lives be better because we have crossed paths.
• United States
3 Sep 07
I read the previous responses and all are true and shed some light on what it means to have Free Will. God loves us so much that he made all of us different but in some way likeness of him. He gave us Free Will because he wants us to read his word and obey him through our love for him--not make us obey him. Just like your significant other has the free will to be faithful or cheat. You want your SO to love you because they want to and not because you have to make them stay in the relationship. It is true that Jesus has paid for our sins by the grace of God and therefore we should want to obey God. Of course God knows that we are going to sin and that is why he sent his son. We have Free Will to choose right or wrong. The series of Laws laid down by God aren't there to make us miserable, they were put in place to help us avoid some of the trials we face in life. You have to admit, the world would be a much better place if some of us weren't as greedy, envious,vain, lustful, etc.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
So now you bring obedience into the equation! How does free will fit into that? If we really are free to choose why would God require us to Obey Him. WE are free remember,(almost everyone agrees with this)when you have free choice you need not obey!
1 person likes this
@DJ9020 (1596)
• United States
3 Sep 07
I believe in Free Will, and will try to describe it the best way I can. God gives us free will, he also gives us grace and forgiveness if we ask for it. Therefore, if we sin, all we have to do if we are believers that Jesus has already paid for our sins, is ask forgiveness and it is immediately granted. If we are true believers, we will try very hard not to sin, and to live as God would like us to live. But God knows we are human, and fallible, and prone to sin. So he still offers his forgiveness to us when we sin even when we know better, and know we are sinning. That is the beauty of grace.
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
3 Sep 07
Thanks for the response, but you missed the point..... please give the question some thought...... If we do have free choice how can we possibly sin against God?
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
3 Sep 07
I am not of any religion. I believe we have free will so that hopefully we will learn from our mistakes. If there is a God then I believe he is forgiving. I absolutely do not believe in the burning in Hell theory!
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
4 Sep 07
Absolutely! I agree with that!
1 person likes this
@dakuohao (16)
• China
3 Sep 07
I think that everyone always believe Free Will is exist.Only our life already adaptation this situation.Talk about God .He real exist?i don't know.I know that It's one's own for onself to try Fee Will.Don't Complaint anyone.Some talk no fine please excuse.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
16 Oct 07
I don't complain because I know that free Will does exist!
1 person likes this
• India
16 Oct 07
i read the whole text -- it concludes you are granted free will you believe in god you need not obey him you will not go to hell -- well its good!! every thinng in your favour!!!! is this your believe?? your rules to believe god as you wish pretty good to make ones life unrestricted. is there any heven that god has created?if yes all will go in it? even if you murder someone!! what do you say?godd pretty good.do what ever then.
1 person likes this