How do you measure worthiness?
@Perspectives (7131)
Canada
September 14, 2007 11:35pm CST
For many that I chat with on a regular basis you've probably figured out that I place a tremendous amount of worth in all people whether we see things the same way or not. My view of others has absolutely nothing to do with their material worth, position in life, education, spiritual beliefs or most anything that is an outer 'form.' To me everyone is a divine creation in this endlessly perfect universe. I always loved the way this idea was portrayed by Walt Whitman when he said; "The whole theory of the universe is directed unerringly to one single individual...namely YOU!"
For some who have been schooled in religious frameworks this statement may sound like a selfish or exalted way of viewing humanity. However, from my world view...and Whitman's it is quite sensible. You and I and everyone else inhabiting this great planet with us are individuals but also an integral part of the One Song within our humanity. So within that context everyone...even those we may choose to hate or condemn...all have value in ways we often cannot see, much less comprehend. How can we ever forget that humans and their unlimited capacities to love, overcome,transform, create, co-create...should not be appreciated for their intrinsic energetic worth within a world that is measureless and abundant with life?
So within a larger context it becomes easier to measure a person's worth from who they are within their spiritual essence rather than what they appear to be on the outside. The more we can see ourselves within the whole...the greater our chances of seeing worthiness in everyone we meet. Just stop and think for a moment what the world could be like if we were able to focus on our similar human needs for love, respect,acceptance honor rather than within the duality of our differences. If this approach ever reached critical mass we could eventually find a way to see each person's worth where maybe before we thought there was none. It is the 'them versus us' mentality that keeps polarizing influences running rampant through the time lines of history.
So now that I have shared my perspective on worth...would you be willing to offer your ideas on how you measure worthiness...within yourself and others. Who is worthy to you...or what? Are there some that are unworthy...of anything...what would that be? Where do you think the fine lines of human life breaks down? And if we start judging that one life is more worthy than the other...is there a risk of anarchy?
Destruction of life and horrendous atrocities towards races, creeds, colors occurred because someone decided that their lives were 'worthless.' So this is a weighty question. I do hope that even when we disagree we will uphold our commitment to doing so within a spirit of respectful dialog and emotional maturity.
I live with the belief that an ability to 'educate' ourselves or gain insight from others comes when we listen to the opinions of others and do not lose our tempers. Remember folks...anger is only one letter away from DANGER!! lol Anyway this could prove to be one of our more interesting topics thus far. Although I think we have had some fascinating discussions and our 'thinkers' keep on thinking. Thanks to those of you who are willing to dive into this one...
10 people like this
10 responses
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
16 Sep 07
I must say, perspectives, that I almost totally agree with you. There is some worth in everyone-to a certain extent. I only qualify that statement because I feel that there are a minority of people who are intrinsically evil. These people do not have the boundaries in place that most people have, so they will commit evil acts with no thought as to the consequences. They plough their way through life leaving a path of destruction in their wake. I don't see these people as having any worth. Their sole purpose in life is to disrupt harmony and bring grief to everyone who has the misfortune to cross their paths. I once heard it said that if we believe in good, we must also believe in evil. I have found that this is true.
3 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
16 Sep 07
You truly are...worldwise...and thank you for your thoughtful addition to the topic. Yes, the shadows/light and good and evil do make up the complexities within our reality don't they? I guess my whole challenge in trying to 'judge' another's worth comes from my belief about energy never being destroyed. I like to think that along the continuum of anyone's soul path that they would eventually find a way to move beyond their evil ways and do course corrections that would eventually lead them to more enlightening living.
Evil people have often been created by their earlier life experiences. Their abuse created anger, violence and horrendous acts of treachery towards others. In 'doing what they know' they treat themselves and others as they have been treated...so who is the worthless one...them...or those who victimized them? In my view eventually everyone will have to become accountable for the cause and effect of their choices...if not here...then within the next dimension. I am concerned that we do not have the true wisdom to go beyond outer appearances and judge their worth from our limited human perspective.
The more I learn the more I realize there is to learn...and maybe we really do have more than one lifetime or realm to do it. So...choices...very weighty responsibilities aren't they?
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
15 Sep 07
well now I havent really thought of this or on it . .Am thinking all is worthy of something down deep with in their selves.
I myself have never felt I was worthless and have not thoughthat about many people .
NOw I would take a feller that slipped up on a partially deaf man (that had been really sick and out in his own yard!)
the feller knocked him down with a puch from the back and then went to kicking and stomping the man / and he was so weak Wife barly heard her named called bbut just in time to see other feller run around his fence and then got in truck and run away. Even his mother lied and said she didnt know that person even if the truck he run off in is parked down the street now but had been parked in the garge for over 3 years.
Now that is some one I would call worthless!!!!!!
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
15 Sep 07
What a tragic display of 'man's inhumanity to man.' It hard to fathom why people do what they do...but I am sure you are familiar with the Aboriginal Prayer that asks; "Do not let me judge a man until I have walked a mile in his moccasins." I guess there is something in my that always want to know how people came to be the way they are..what influences made them go into the darkness rather than seeking the light...and who showed them how to be so inhumane?
The psychological profile of many sociopaths, rapists, murderers reveals they were often horrendously abused as children. So do we deem them unworthy...or those who abused them and created a way of treating them that they later inflict on others? I said this was a weighty question...with no easy answers. But we are not necessarily going to find one view that works for all...we are as always, just sharing perspectives.
Thank you for adding yours my friend...I am always interested in how you see things. Good chatting with you yesterday...and we will again soon. Many hugs...and more blessing shining with the candle I keep lit for you.
Raia
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
16 Sep 07
It is very fair of you to look at the reasons why his seemingly despicable behavior occurred. Addictions often come from an inability to handle the harsh realities in life. Not that it is an excuse...but understanding why
others do what they do. From that place it may be possible to help them accept responsibility for what they did...and then hopefully learn healthier ways to treat themselves and others.
No karmic repercussions my friend...just open, honest chats about people, their lives and choices. Always good to share with you...you know that!
Luv and hugs to you and yours. Hope your Sunday is going well.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
19 Sep 07
Well whatever anyone can do to feel safe and prevent fear-based perceptions sounds reasonable to me. If you and your family have found a way to do that...it is a good thing. Whatever works...
Continue to enjoy your contemplative time. Blessings...
@visitorinvasion (7709)
• United States
23 Sep 07
I've been avoiding this one because it forces me to be honest with myself about who I am and why. I wish I could say that I deem all human life worthy in some way, but I can't. There are a select few people that could benefit the entire world greatly by dropping off its face entirely.
It is true that I'm not normally the judgmental type, but I must be honest with myself and say that somethings and a select few people are really hard for me not to judge and judge rather harshly at that.
For the most part, people are good, I truly believe that, but not all people are good. I try to base that on how they treat other people in general and on how honest they are. I don't really care about who has what or who doesn't have anything. I don't care about who lives where or who knows who, etc. As long as someone treats me okay, and isn't a threat to others around them, that person is generally okay in my book until they do something to show me otherwise. Slowly getting better at avoiding antagonizing people, but now and again I slip and let someone have it. Sometimes I feel bad later, sometimes I don't.
Back to judging worth in people...another thinker here, Raia. :D
I think that is shows when people know their minds and do their best to improve upon themselves. Not physically, not unless that is what they need for themselves, but mentally and emotionally, even spiritually. To me, that is the most worthy of all humans. Those that seek wisdom and strive to make the world around them just a little bit better in some way.
Right now the "pleasant people" are coming to mind. Those who always strive to spread their smiles like viruses. *Note to any readers who may practice "pleasantness": this does work!!
People who care too much, those are worth a mint!
The people who can and will risk their jobs or whatever because another human being is distraught or in need of some "right now" help of some sort. The employers that understand that your friend's feelings are more important than that 1st hour's worth of pay are few and far between as well.
The sad person that makes our hearts ache when we see the the pain in their eyes. Those people are worth more than we know. Those people should be the reason we are grateful for what we have instead of the people who are avoided as to not ruin someone's good mood.
The lonely old woman down the block, you know, the one that is constantly coming outside in the 90-degree weather in a thick knitted shawl barking at children to go play somewhere else? Remember her? I'll bet something must have really torn her up on the inside to make her that way. I feel badly for mooning her now, lol. I'll bet the people like that even have something to give from the heart if someone were patient enough to ignore the hateful front long enough to get through.
The people this world would be better off without do nothing but take and destroy. There is no giving of love, caring, forgiveness, friendship, or anything else ever. Those are the people for whom I find no worth.
Enjoy the novel, Raia. This has been a more than interesting discussion. Enjoy that beautiful fall scenery!
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
24 Sep 07
Hi Shannon...
Well with this post the thing that comes to mind is...anything worth having is worth waiting for...and this addition to the discussion was certainly worth waiting for! You have a poetic side to you that I have never seen before and I thank you for sharing it here in this way.
Everything you have opened up to about worthiness is certainly so true...and I am touched by the sincerity within your perceptions of others. You are a great observer and the sensitivity to others who have been wounded and cause some harm to others is very insightful. That is what I always wonder...what makes people the way they are...what causes them to do vile acts..and what causes others to overcome it and show immense love and forgiveness. The human condition is endlessly fascinating.
I cannot argue with you that those who cause hate, take and destroy make the world a challenging place at times...but those who have the capacity to love do make it a better place...and without sadness it would be hard to appreciate joy.
So I truly did enjoy reading your novel...but then I appreciate who you are, who you think...and the great commitment you have to making the world a happier, safer place...so you can write your novel here anytime. With valuable perspectives like yours they are always so welcome!!
Great addition...had I not already posted a BR...this would have been it!
Raia
2 people like this
@visitorinvasion (7709)
• United States
1 Oct 07
Not sweatin' the BR, Raia. lol
It's thought provoking, soul searching posts like yours that help give me that push to do better and be better.
Still working on the temper, but making progress.
I really appreciate you being here for me at the most opportune times. Most of the time, your topics are right on the money with whatever personal part of me needs work.
Thank you for being a friend and for the compliments (insert cheeser grin here). Keep those "thinkers" comin'.
Ciao4now, hopefully we can chat soon.
Hope you're weekend was awesome and that your week is easy and fun.
Shannon
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
1 Oct 07
Wow..that is so kewl to hear...I mean the synergy part of you and the topics..and the fact that we are in each other's cheering section. I value what we share too Shannon...and I respect who you are, your work ethic and your commitment to civic duty...a powerhouse combination in my mind.
So anyway, thanks for the feedback and validating words..they are coming back at you. I received your e-mail and we'll chat more on that. Have to sign off hubby David has been patiently waiting for me downstairs for over an hour now. What a good guy he is...a real keeper!
Anyhow..hope your week isn't too hectic..although I know it probably will be. Take some breathing time...deep breaths are a great way to help with anger management..at least five...in and out...s-l-o-w-l-y. Works for me anyway!
So long, cheers, best regards and all that good stuff..and we will be in touch.
Raia
@ItTakesAllSorts (4096)
•
17 Sep 07
Worthiness to me is summed up in one word JUSTICE!!
Where there is no justice there can never be any worthiness whether it be of the self or as a community or even as the whole human race on this earth.
I accept that there will be different layers within society, it is in our genes to strive for the best and there will always be those who will rule over the many., thats life.
What I can't comprehend is the fact that the few have so much wealth while the rest have so little and they can accept this in a world that could be so different if people truely respected each person's worth within society.
I believe in Maslows hierachy of needs and until we have our basic needs fulfilled we can never reach the next stages which eventually leads to self-actualisation.
We do not need the materialistic things that are constantly shoved down our throats. Love, security, well-being, a sense of worth and belonging are the basic needs that can be experienced by all if time, money and justice was served equally to everyone.
I have been researching lately the 'New World Order' which is plaguing our lifes and will get worse as time goes on. Instead of embracing each other and seeing the worth in all, we are slowly but surely beginning to segregate ourselves more and more, place ourselves within a box where we can identify with others and stay clear of those who do not have the same beliefs as ourselves.
Worthiness is when we decide to live outside the box and accept each other for who we are not what we are. I hope one day this will happen, but I will not hold my breath!!
@ItTakesAllSorts (4096)
•
19 Sep 07
Thanks for best response, I am well chuffed.
I love coming onto your discussions, you make me actually think and look into things!!
Much respect x
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
19 Sep 07
You are most welcome...your BR is well deserved. I similarly appreciate your many valuable observations and insights...they always add some interesting, honoring views. Your friendship is something I truly appreciate as well.
Warmest regards,
Raia
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
19 Sep 07
I am grateful for your very well presented ideas. Your view of 'them against us' being part of what degrades a sense of unity and worthiness is true. I see things the same way you do on this and polarity within society concerns me as well.
I have said it in other posts that with enough love for each other we could resolve all our human rights concerns. Your belief in the Maslow hierarchy is another concept I subscribe to. When all own's life force is poured into survival it does make it challenging to develop on other levels.
You have a very well developed sense of morality and ethics and appear to walk your talk in the way you present yourself. That is why I was so shocked by the flaming comments one member made about your 'spiritual' path. Who cares about then when others show their care and compassion for others in their day by day experiences? Self-respect, empathy, compassion create a feeling of worthiness in others...and to me that is far more important that following some dogma that demeans others because they do not think the same way.
Well I guess there are those of us keep our hopes high..if not life would feel very futile.
Excellent addition again...and you sure DO say a lot! Thank you!
2 people like this
@rosie_123 (6113)
•
15 Sep 07
Oh - this is such a hard topic, and one which there realy isn't any right or wrong answer to. I am not a philosopher, neither am I a particularly spiritual person at all - I'm too practical and "controlled" for that! Being the control freak that I am, I think that if I thought too deeply about such subjects it would scare me because it would all spiral out of control!! LOL! But if you ask me for worthy - well - for a start, I probably differ from many people, because I am not one of those who thinks the human race is any more worthy than the animal kingdom. In fact in many cases I prefer animals. Men kill for pleasure, and rape, and take pleasure out of torturing other living creatures for so-called "fun" and that is despicable to me. Animals in general, only kill for food or to protect their young - so I think they are far more worthy. I guess I see "worthy" as treating ALL other living creatures (including animals), and also nature and the environment with respect. Sorry if I haven't put this over very well - I hope you know what i am trying to say!!
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
15 Sep 07
Yes Rosie...I completely understand where you are coming from. Your have raised some excellent points about the lack of respect and 'worth' within the human approach to animals. Your position is something I completely agree with...and support. Life forms are a part of the All-That-Is in my world view as well. In being given dominion over the world humans were supposed to be care-takers of the abundant life within our natural world. The fact that they do not is very disheartening to me too.
My Mom raised me with the same kind of love and respect for the animal and plant kingdoms..so I applaud your perspective and closing comment; "I guess I see worthy as treating ALL loving creatures (including animals), nature and the environment with respect." Excellent views...and you have put it over well and I sure do 'get' everything you have said! Thanks my animal loving gal-pal.
Warm regards,
Raia
1 person likes this
@pqm1987 (8)
• China
15 Sep 07
Hi Perspectives, I lost in think after see your words .I gree your words " And if we start judging that one life is
more worthy than the other ...is there a risk of anarchy?"
As I think the most happy of life is have been fond of ourself life .And it is the measure of the worth.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
15 Sep 07
Hi again...
I appreciate that you agree with the idea of anarchy...it has happened before with a lack of regard for human worth. It is true when we are happy with who we are there is less inclination to cause harm to others...for whatever the reason.
Thanks for adding to the discussion again.
Raia
1 person likes this
@healwell (1268)
• Ahmedabad, India
19 Sep 07
I never try to measure worthiness I just feel it... And who ever have such beauty of worthiness mostly spread fragrance! Its from within and comes through blossoming within...
When there would be smile with innocence
When there would be tears of joyousness
When any one creates wings of love and compassion
When some one's eyes throb with peace
When a child sparkles like soul's mirror
When the knowledge sounds ego less
When empowerment counts simplicity as life governing
When sainthood considers life as a sacred process
I feel worthiness
I really feel worthiness deeply
I feel worthiness within…
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Sep 07
It sounds as though I may have offended you...and if that is the way you perceived it I am very sorry...it was not meant as a question of integrity. I have told you on different occasions that I that hold you in high regard. The fact that you posted it and did not mention that it was yours..my first thought...but within your humility of not adding your name I just wanted to check.
So my friend you truly have a magnificent light in and around you...and your poetry reveals that in every line. If you have never considered it before and you have other works like that you may want to consider doing an anthology and offering out there for others to share.
I do hope this clarifies things...I value you too much to have a misunderstanding affect our friendship.
Warmest regards as always,
Raia
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
19 Sep 07
Oh healwell what an exquisite presentation of worthiness. This offering of yours is a gift to anyone who will read it. Is this one of your musings...a personal creation from the poet and philosopher within you...or from some one else?
Where ever it originated it is undoubtedly a great addition to this subject and I thank you once again for the connection we share.
Blessings to you and yours,
Raia
@kishusia (1066)
• India
1 Oct 07
My criteria for worthiness is 'positive thought process'. People may have beauty, wealth and position in the society, but if their attitude towards others is negative then their worthiness has a question mark against it. On the other hand if a person is not equally beautiful, has no equal wealth and has no equal position in the society, but has a positive attitude towards other people then this person is worthy of your friendship and trust.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
1 Oct 07
I truly see things through a similar lens on this one. Within the 'what goes around comes around' idea of reciprocity we do need to learn healthy discernment in our relationships with others.
Your views about a person's intrinsic worth coming from who they are on the inside rather than the outer trappings is also something that I appreciate in your additions to this discussion.
Thanks for taking the time to add your input...
Raia
@staywithpin (169)
• United States
15 Sep 07
Hi, perspective, thanks for your share of your thoughtful opinion. I agree and like what you said:"anger is only one letter way from danger". I am a guy who is not easy to lose the temper although in other eyes I am sort of tameness which is not a good word for male. But I know angry alway hurts based on my own experience, there are something rush in the blood and everything almost breaks in the body which is not a thing for our healty.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
15 Sep 07
Glad you like the quote and the idea behind it. Does give one reason to pause doesn't it. So many people blow up then say and do things that are hurtful, unthinking and harmful. When functioning withing uncontrolled anger...it can and often does have dangerous results.
I also agree that the hormonal releases within the body can have a negative impact on the body that could also be dangerous for it. Good point. Thanks for you input!
1 person likes this
@izathewzia (5134)
• Philippines
26 Sep 07
The worth or value of a person is hard to measure unless they show you how they value and find your worth,too. It is a two-way measurement. Personally, I use the same measurement the other person uses on me. I only reciprocate them. But of course, there are other factors we can base the worth of a person. And it depends on you.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
1 Oct 07
Thank you for adding your views on this topic...they are points that are well taken. Yes, there are many factors in determining how valuable or worthwhile someone is to us...and it is up to us to choose wisely.
Raia
