Atheists would not die for Atheism, are there any positives in religion?
September 22, 2007 8:31pm CST
Some muslim guy accused atheists to joining terrorists groups. How many atheists do you know would die for atheism? How many atheists do you know that would die to kill some religious people? the fact is, religion tells people to die (and kill, and torture, and massacre) for their ideology.. but, there is nothing like that in atheism. religion justifies wrong doings while it accuses people of "wrong doings". I can't think of any positive effects religion has put on the world... can you help me out? Maybe the idea of individualism is a good thing? no, wait, individualism has secular roots... and its debated on whether its bad or good... its also debated whether its in the bible or not.. how about Islam's scientific advancements? o wait, everything they have done was just a copy of what the Greeks had done before them.. anything else?
2 people like this
23 Sep 07
There are many different religions, each with its own tenets. Does Buddhism tell people to kill others for its sake? Christianity doesn't either - to say that based on say, Joshua's wars in the Bible, would be taking them out of their social context. While there is nothing like that in atheism, atheism does not have a basis for morality either. I am not saying that atheists cannot be moral, only that they have no basis for their moral actions. Many great scientists, such as Isaac Newton, were Christians. Charities such as World Vision are also run by Christians. Then there was Mother Teresa, who helped the poor in India. You are right - the societies in the Bible are not individualist. But other than that I can't really say.
24 Sep 07
1 moral atheist destroys the argument of "no moral base" for atheist. yea sure, newtons time is different.. plus, its not a positive or negative that newton did what he did, it had nothing to do with Christianity.. he even attacked the churches way of thinking.. LOL MOTHER TERESA there are some baaaaaaaaaad things about her, she believed that everyone had to suffer to be in the eyes of god, she did not help anyone but the church raise money for more of her hospitals of pain and anguish... please check up on that
27 Sep 07
good question.. "why is it "good" to be good? and why is it "bad" to be bad?" do you know the answer to this? because i will need to think about it. simply a case of "my god is better than your god" newton attacked the church for so many issues.. so clearly his definition of religion is different from ours.. he is talking about spirituality, just as Einstein did. old test. if you go to a basic info site, like wiki, and search her name, and go to "criticisms" you will understand where i am coming from. im not sure if spreading christian suffering hospitals is such a good thing.
28 Sep 07
To us, there is a distinction between good and bad because God has given us those rules. Proof please. Especially since I noted that anti-Semitism is thoroughly un-Christian. Read the site. Certainly it thinks that he can be considered a Christian, though unorthodox, and unlike Einstein, he believed in a personal God. You could be a little more specific. But there is this: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qamorite.html It is specifically about the Canaanites, and the point is that the Israelites were being used as an instrument of judgement on nations that conducted practices that are considered detestable even today, such as child sacrifice. I already looked up Wikipedia, and I think I already stated why I do not particularly trust the criticisms. It is also one thing to state that perhaps the hospitals were somewhat substandard, and another to say that since Mother Teresa supposedly thought that everyone had to suffer to be in the eyes of God, she purposely made sure that the hospitals were as terrible as possible.
23 Sep 07
I have not heard any atheist dying for atheism, nor have I heard any atheist say ' I am doing this good work because there is no god or something like that.' I think when you club religion in one category i.e. telling its adherents to die, you are going to far. Certain religions may do, but not all. Religion is so diverse so it will be much helpful if you do not generalise like that. You said 'I can't think of any positive effects religion has put on the world...' What about human rights? The concept of human rights is never atheistic, it is Christian. If you read history of science it's based on one assumption that the universe is ordered and it has meaning (God created orderliness and gives meaning as well)...the root of modern science is never atheistic, it is very much Christian. I wonder if you meant that Jesus also teaches his followers to kill and torture and massacre... I hope the Muslims will speak of Islam.
24 Sep 07
We had talked about that, and you couldn't refute the authenticity of the writings of the historians I cited... I also said you cannot dismiss the biblical accounts as crap without having done historiography... I am surprised that you hold onto to your position without proper intellectual basis. I must say your rejection of Christianity seems to be on the basis of some other reasons, not intellectual... with regards, headhunter525
27 Oct 07
Ah, fightingistheonlyway, I think I know what inspired your post!:-) why do you fight so much? are you a religious person!?:-) Joke aside, may be that guy is not muslim, as 'you' know it. May be he wasn't targeting Atheism but was only saying that just as some individuals from religions, committed atrocities, likewise, Atheists and secular individuals weren't behind either. Maybe his argument had nothing to do with Atheism being terroristic philosophy! Individualism! hmmm...it seems that you keep an eye on that guy too much:-) He has talked about invidualism in one of his responses to another user. I, personally, don't think individualism is bad per se. It's the excess of anything that is dangerous, for a person, a family, an institution, a society and a country. I think that every society contributed to advancement of science and knowledge in general, some more, and some, less! I have read the views about Muslims copying from Greeks but in the world of science and knowledge, nothing is strictly copy and more over I do think that People do not have thorough knowledge of history and association of things. They follow vague evidences. And, If I, as a researcher, take basic idea from my advisor and expand it by maturing the idea, it wouldn't be a copy as such. If it is so, then there is no genuine research being done as such because every researcher bases his work on already acquired information from others.
• United States
24 Sep 07
There isn't an atheist that would die for the right not to be a part of any religion,i.e. the separation of church and state? I would.Being of some help for people in need is the positive effects of religion. religion is there to help you get through tough times and it can help you become a better person. But there are many that don't need religion to be a better person. But just because they don't need it, religion shouldn't be discarded.People shouldn't be forced to become a member of any religion and people shouldn't be forced to live without their religion.
24 Sep 07
Well, I am an atheist and I find very strange the idea of "dying for atheism". Atheism, as I understand it is NOT a religion. It is a position of non-belief. For example, you do not believe (I think) on invisible unicorns flying around jupiter, right? The idea doesn't make any sense for you. With me, the idea of God makes no sense too, which doesn't mean that I do not respect other peoples beliefs. So I wouldn't die for atheism, I could die because of it due to some people that think that they have the right to kill atheists, altough I know no one like this, I think that such people may (and do) exist. Also I know no one of any religious position that would die to kill other religious people, and only fanatics would do so. I think that religion has some good things, and religion was necessary at some point in human history, but these "good points" do not prove religion to be true or justify their evil side.