What does seperation of church and state mean to you?
By II2aTee
@II2aTee (2559)
United States
April 21, 2008 1:22pm CST
In America, religious freedom and the seperation of church and state are two of the foundations of our country.
What about in your country? What role does your religion play in government?
Do you agree there should be a seperation of chuch and state? Why, or why not?
5 people like this
10 responses
@Fidget (291)
•
21 Apr 08
It's really blurred in the UK. The Queen is both Head of State and the Head of the Church of England(CoE). This being a result of Henry VIII actions of creating the CoE and putting himself as its head so he could have a divorce. This combined State and Church making it a legal minefield, for example, you could be charged with treason for crimes against either. It has gradually seperated over the past 100 years or so but it is still rather mixed.
...oooo, tea, I'll carry on once I've had food!
2 people like this
@II2aTee (2559)
• United States
21 Apr 08
How odd... I just made myself a hot cup of tea before I sat down for this discussion. American swill though. I'm sure yours is much more refined.
I have always found British politics to be fascinating. I sometimes watch the House of Commons just to get an idea of how things are done across the pond.
I am interested... treason against the government is a "no-brainer". However, what kind of treason could one commit against the church, and what kind of punishments might they entail?
3 people like this
@Fidget (291)
•
21 Apr 08
You can watch the House of Lords too, much more pompous and fun!
Right, mini history lecture on English(+Welsh) politics and religion.
- Henry VIII want a divorce but the Church was still Catholic and the Pope was at the head and said no. Solution, get rid of Pope as head and put himself at head.
- Suddenly got the whole Protestant and Catholic fight. But now offence against the Church is now treason as it is an offence against the Head of the Church who happens to be the King. This is both a political and religious tool.
- Lots of burnings, the Gundpowder plot, a Civil War, and kicking a King off the throne for being Catholic (over more than 150yrs mind you), we have laws preventing Catholics being monarch or holding high positions in the Civil Service.
- early/mid 1800s Catholics are allowed to have high positions in the Civil Service
- modern day, members of the Royal Family still can't be Catholic or they are no longer 'Royal'.
Britain is still a technically a Christian country though *shrug* it's just not that popular today. There are still traditions eg in Court the whole swearing 'Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?' on a Bible if you are giving evidence in Court (though you can skip the religiousy bit now). But I'd say it's more in tradition and ritual now. We're too PC to allow obvious Christianity, but then we do have 32 Bishops in the House of Lords... Huh, the more I think about it the more religious we seem though my gut reaction was that we aren't that much anymore!
2 people like this
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
21 Apr 08
I'm in the US too, so I'll ignore the first questions.
Yes, there should be a separation. The only way for either government or religion to thrive is if they are kept far, far away from each other.
2 people like this
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
21 Apr 08
I'm from the US so that's the perspective I'm coming from. To me the idea of seperation of church and state means that the government does not promote one religion over the other. It does not demand that the citizens belong to one belief. We are allowed to follow what ever belief system we want to or even to believe in any without fear of reprisals from the government. That ideally our beliefs cannot be held against us and that we can not be discriminated for them.
It also means the government does not interfere with a religion and how it practices unless they are breaking the law (as others brought up the Texas situation for an example). Religions do not have to worry about having their leaders being thrown in jail due to an unpopular belief they practice. For example animal sacrifice with some Voodoo religions. Now so long as the animal is not abused or treated cruelly they are allowed to do so since they aren't breaking any laws. Animal sacrifice isn't well liked but it is not illegal. The government cannot go in and stop it just because it's something they don't like.
@emeraldisle (13139)
• United States
26 Apr 08
I never said that it was perfect or that it is followed as it should be. I agree that religion should not be a factor in any political campaign. The only time I could see it being a factor is if the person running tried to use it to say they would be good because of how they were in the faith; then I could see it being used if it proved to not be true.
I will be the first to admit that society doesn't always follow how things should be especially when it comes to religion. However this isn't about how society is but my opinion of what seperation of church and state should be.
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
21 Apr 08
I don't think religion should play any role in government whatsoever. Being that America is made up of every faith and/or religion there is.
Since the government is supposed to be for all American people they should remain a neutral non religious entity...but as we know this is not American politics.
The government seems to rely on religion when it comes to stem cell, gay marriage, and loads of other issues.
Honestly, I'm not a Christian and don't like Christian "values" shoved down my throat. I would much prefer neutral reasons for the government banning something that should be made legal. It seems more intelligent to have real reasons instead of religious excuses.
There is no seperation of church and state in America, it's a falsehood. The biggest American lie ever told.
1 person likes this
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
21 Apr 08
The Separation of Church and State is the right I would willing die for.Here in America we are free to think what we want and it all comes from the separation of Church and State. I am free to believe Or Not believe in anything I choose. The Government Can't tell me what to believe. The government can't kill me just because I don't follow the official religion. and I don't have to hide my religion from anyone or practice it secretly. Better still, I can choose which religion works for me. Even better still, if I don't have a religion, no religion is forced on me.I wouldn't and couldn't live any other way. I am not Christian and I wouldn't pretend to be just to live. I am sorry but I think pretending disrespects yourself And the Deity you are pretending to follow.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
26 Apr 08
I'm totally in favor of the separation of church and state. I think we all should have the freedom and the right to believe in any religion we choose to or none at all and government should have no say in religion and religion should have no say in government. That's not to say people shouldn't say "Merry Christmas" or anything like that or that any of us doesn't have the right to pray no matter where we are. There simply shouldn't be religious teachings in public schools and we should not be governed according to a particular religious faith. We are a diverse nation and it's getting more so all the time and all faiths should be respected.
Annie
@ShardAerliss (1488)
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21 Apr 08
I'm really just posting to keep track of this in as easy a manner as I know how. I'll mostly be sticking my oar in on fidget's post; she knows more than me.
I'll just add a few things about what I 'believe.'
Yes, Church and State should be separate. Religion is a personal choice and so very, very diverse. Also, religion is so often immutable. Laws should not be immutable, they should 'move with the times' as 'twere.
However, Britain being the weird anomaly that it is, our religious MPs tend to be more liberal than some of the irreligious MPs and Lords.
Tony Blair played down his religious convictions until he stood down, then came out as a flaming Catholic. It's a pretty good indication that the government at least thinks people do not want religion dictating law. It is all for multiculturalism, after all.
1 person likes this
@athinapie (1150)
• Philippines
22 Apr 08
for me, separation of church and state means that the church shouldn't mind the business of the state and the state, as well, should respect how the leaders of the church run it. i agree that there should be a separation of church and state because it would be less problematic that way.
