What would you do if your boss tracks your mails, keylogs your computer?

@ahgong (10064)
Singapore
August 11, 2008 2:15am CST
I have been thinking hard about this since my meet up with my friend last night. He was griping to me that his boss is a real pain. Micro managing everything. I go like... okay... same old gripes each time we meet. Then something he said caught my attention. His boss is actually sniffing all his emails. And not just listening to them on his computer. He is also replying to them on his behalf at times as well. How does he know? When the reply from the sender is cc to him. Looking at the history of the mail, his boss replied to the mail and did not inform him. And the best part of it is, he was not in the mailing list of the mail to begin with! Then he found out that his boss also keeps tracks of the internet traffic as well. Key logging every computer in the lab and monitoring all the key logs. That means that when you sign in to the web mail or anything secure site, he knows which site it is. And even the passwords to those site. Cos the key logger logs everything. He said he found out cos during on of the meetings, his boss mentioned about things that he did not share with the company. Things like his credit card numbers which he used to buy a gift for his girlfriend during lunch for some special occasion. Is this ethical? Is it breaking the law to be key logging your own employees? Are they allowed to even do what they do? What would you do if your boss were to do the same thing in your office?
5 people like this
17 responses
@nova1945 (1612)
• United States
12 Aug 08
Actually it is quite legal for a company to track your movements if you are using company time and/or equipment to do things online. However they are not allowed to share personal information such as credit card data or reply to emails on your behalf. Any time you log into a website you leave a "footprint" which can reflect on the company. Security and image is very important to a company. If you are bothered by being "watched" while online then don't do it. Wait until you get home and use your own computer. Unfortunately this is how things are now.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
26 Aug 08
Well, in the context of this discussion, boss was referring to the head of the department. As the department is small, it consist of only the team and the team lead. Which is also the department head. That is why he is referred to as the boss.
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Like you said, it is normal for a company to monitor the activity of the computers that employees use in the office. And those information collected should be regarded with high level of secrecy. No? If it is easily and loosely available for any boss to read it, then it prone to abuse. I guess a kind of balance must be reached when it comes to viewing this kind of information collected from the network through monitoring activities. To have a boss who reads and scrutinizes it and then flashed around at the boss fancy is kinda unethical. Is it not? Again I must stress, unless there is an investigation into a breech of contract or company policies, such activity should not be read by the boss and worn in the sleeve like some form of leverage on the employee. No?
@nova1945 (1612)
• United States
21 Aug 08
I agree with you that just anyone should not have access to your information. I guess "boss" would be based on the size of the company. Sometimes the boss is also the CEO/owner. I have worked for very large companies (HP,Home Savings, etc) and they will generally have a data security department. One of their duties is to monitor these activities and then make reports to the appropriate management. One example of this was a time that I got into serious trouble for forwarding a joke email to one "friend" in another department. She then forwarded it to someone but inadvertently sent it to her boss' entire mailing list which was global and it clogged the whole email system. Of course she claimed that she never did that and pointed the finger back at me (I had no access to that list) and the result was very ugly. I understand the need for security monitoring, but you are right about how the information should be used and shared. The boss you described was highly unethical.
1 person likes this
@gtdonna (1738)
19 Aug 08
I think while his bos do have a right to know what he does on work computers it has gone too far with the private information. And if the boss cna see it, so cna others and steal his identity, I think he should find otu about his rights in this regards....and be VERY careful what he puts on public computers in the near future
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Well, after that one time that he did use the computer for a personal reason, he never used the computer for the internet again! Be it for work or not, he would rather refer to reference books and local help files than to risk being accused of abusing company resources.
• Philippines
12 Aug 08
This will be invading ones privacy. I would be furious if this happened to me. In our work each of us have each his/her own computer and our boss never bothers checking it out or going through it. I think it is very unprofessional to do such a thing in trying to meddle with other peoples stuff. Your friend should have sued him for invasion of privacy.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
If only it was that easy. You must get your hands on the logs that he see. Or get people who are willing t testify on your behalf. As a newbie in the company who is sitting at the bottom of the staff hierarchy, do you think he have access to either one? Not that easy to sue even if he wants to. On top of that, it is not a sure win situation. And to spend money on such a jerk knowing that there is a high percentage of loss, why would my friend want to do that?
@squaretile (3778)
• Singapore
13 Aug 08
Wow i think there is some serious privacy invasion there. Unless the company policy is that you should not use the company computer and internet line for anything personal at all. Then i guess everything personal you do online, you can expect your boss to track and know. If you are fine with that, then continue using by all means. this must be quite a small SME. cos i can't imagine anyone talking about credit card numbers of an employee. why would he bring that up in a meeting anyway? how would he bring it up? did he write down the numbers? memorise them? totally weird and bizzare.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Yep. The information was brought up during a staff meeting. And it is scary that the boss has this kind of access to the information that is being used on an internet. And what is more, the site my friend keyed his information in, is suppose to be an encrypted secured site. First of all, it is scary that the boss has this kinda access to the information that is collected from the monitoring on the network activity. Secondly, it goes to show that he is spending his time scrutinizing such logs rather than focus on managing the team and the projects at hand. Thirdly, the wanton disregard for the way the information is used. Even if the boss is trying to warn my friend of the level of monitoring that is being done, he shouldn't be bringing this up during a staff meeting. Telling all the thing he bought for his girlfriend and mocking him because of it. I mean, my friend only did it once. And it is due to the fact that he is trying to rush the work to complete the project in time to meet the date line. AND due to this he is always staying back late to meet the demanding requests. And every time he worked late till all the shops are closed. So he got no other choice but to buy the item online. And due to this one time, he is make a fool of? I feel there should a line drawn between getting the job done and abusing the company resources for personal gain. No?
@mlhuff12 (797)
• United States
12 Aug 08
I think it is ethical and okay to keep track of where the employees are going on the internet at work and keeping track of that. I have worked at a few places that say they do that. But reading and replying to somebody elses e-mails doesn't seem right. I don't think that is legal. hmmm...it kinda seems that the boss is stepping over the line and his position of power is perhaps going to his head...If my boss was doing this I would probably ask him to stop. I'm sure that wouldn't work so then I would probably eventually quit. Feeling that my privacy was taken away at a place I feel that it shouldn't be threatened, and with the information he has. I'd be afraid what he'd do with it.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Precisely! I am sure there are boundaries to where the boss can go and where the employee stands. And if those boundaries are broken by someone who is higher ranked than you, what kind of recourse do you have? Well, other than quitting, one can only grit their teeth and toe the line till the day they cannot take it anymore.
@mlh8087 (368)
• United States
14 Aug 08
I would think if this boss person is responding to e-mails as if he is the original recipient of the e-mail then he is committing fraud. Now if there are rules about personal stuff on work computers then your friend could be breaking the work rules and the boss has a right to know that but he doesn't have a right to be collecting passwords or any other personal information on his employees. The employees may need to all get together and report this jerk to his supervisors before it gets any worse.
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Well, according to my friend, everyone who came into the company, left after they found out what the boss is doing. And the boss is sort of next in line after the CEO. So there is nothing much anyone else in the team can do. He also said that according to his team mates, the team has changed a few times prior to his entry into the company. Now that he is out, he is so much happier! And we get to go out to our regular coffee sessions again!
@chiyosan (30184)
• Philippines
12 Aug 08
it is unethical. we have a right to opur privacy and if he does not want them to use the internet, he should restrict the sites and not put on keyloggers. obviously he has the intention of trying to use the passwords, and the cardnumbers. he is stalking his employees! for goodness sake. i think the employee can charge his boss for this. if this was done to me i will definitely sue him and will have him pay for it.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Unless you can get your hands on the logs that he see. Or you have evidence to prove your allegations beyond reasonable doubt. Other wise, don't waste money and time. You will never win this in court. It is like an egg (you) trying to take on the rock (the boss and the company). Who will win? No one is going to stand on your side when things go ugly. Especially not for a newbie who just joined the company! Agree?
@rsa101 (37952)
• Philippines
11 Aug 08
I think it is unethical to really track every single transaction you do on the net. I think that is simply wrong that every move of the employee is tracked and password gathering is also very unethical of him. I think taking control of the internet like blocking certain sites so as not to distract employees from their work is acceptable but snooping on everything they have is just not unbecoming of a superior. I guess he is just not a good leader at all.
@rsa101 (37952)
• Philippines
11 Aug 08
Well since your still starting on your career well I think the best thing you could do is gather you strength in numbers. Try to ask their opinion about how this manager is trying to do to really destroy your privacy then maybe if you have a person much more higher than your manager perhaps you could try to convince them as a group that what this person is doing is just plainly wrong. That is if your manager is not well entrenched in his position like the son of the owner or family relatives of the owner maybe you could do that. But that is a risk you have to take if you want to correct this wrongdoing.
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
I too agree that if you want to control internet usage, blocking sites or restricting access is the way to go. But to key log to the point where you can see the passwords and ID, I personally feel that is too much as well. But being a junior in the company, what would you recommend my friend to do?
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
ha ha ha ha ha... if only it were that simple. Being low on the hierarchy has a lot of disadvantages. And the worst part of it, his boss will definitely take his word over a newbie like my friend. Anyways, I am glad he got out of that job. He is looking at better prospects now!
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
Geez, is this in SINGAPORE? This is definitely NOT ethical and condemnable! I recognize the need for companies to log certain things - such as sites visited and even emails. I think most companies do it though they don't bring the fact out in the open and bray about it like a donkey that has just learned how to fart. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. For instance, passwords for one should not be logged. If your friend made an internet purchase using his credit card, then that might be logged because the system is just logging non-password information - who knows there is a credit card number there? However, all this information should be analyzed only when an employee is suspected of wrong doing. I honestly can't believe his boss would throw around his credit card numbers casually - that is akin to admitting to theft. If his card was misused, that boss should be the first to be hauled in for investigation. And talking about answering emails on his behalf, that is outright sick. Where lies privacy? And did that donkey hire your friend as a staff or non-human robot? Let me get this right - we are talking about a ahgongfren@donkeycompany.com email? If so, then no one can reply to the emails to this account except ahgongfren! What the donkey did here can only be excused if it was an e.g. sales@donkeycompany addressed manned by your friend. Then it is perfectly fine. I think your friend should talk through the issues with his boss and change things for the better. If he doesn't want to do this or if his request for human decency and privacy is rejected, he should start scouting for a new job. He might also call one of the papers to expose this unethical boss - but that would quite possibly break his rice bowl.
1 person likes this
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Geez, how sad for ahgongfren... :(
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Yes, according to ahgongfren, the mail was correspondences between the QA and himself with regards to the project. And the address is between him and the QA. That was why he was so surprise to see the donkey reply to the QA queries that was directed to him (ahgongfren). Well, ahgongfren need not worry about that job anymore. The donkey pulled a stunt that really took the cake! ahgongfren was hired to finish up a project that was left hanging by the previous fella. That fella could not take the antics of the donkey and left. Just like that. Leaving the project hanging, and a big mess of the stuff he was suppose to do. So ahgongfren was hired to replace him in the hope that he can finish the project on the fella's behalf. And ahgongfren was so busy with this new job that he hardly have time to go for coffee with ahgong on the regular basis that he used to. Just recently, after completing the project, one day before his probation is up, he was given a bad review and told to go! Sigh... this kind of donkey boss actually exists in the world. I thought this kind of donkey hole only exist in the movies on the TV series. I sure hope this donkey hole will meet his match and be beaten in his own game! Too much!
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
26 Aug 08
Exactly! The great injustice that was put upon him! I feel for him as well. After listening to his story, it makes me afraid to change job liow.
@spyjob (214)
• Philippines
11 Aug 08
If he's responding to emails cc to him, he should also send cc to your friend so there's no double sending of information and that it won't appear to the one where the email originated that something is wrong with their relationship. Aside from that, the boss has no right to know the passwords and even snoop on each and every email which are not his concerns. Your friend must inform the HR regarding this to know his rights. It's like opening a personal mail of somebody else. His being boss is just bounded by their work and not on their personal affairs.
1 person likes this
@spyjob (214)
• Philippines
14 Aug 08
Seems he's a pain in the a$$. Makes me think that he doesn't work at all because he has all the glory of time to monitor each and every staff and snoop on their activities. Is he a mad scientist inventing a cyborg?
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
If only it was that simple. According to my friend, he is out to make things difficult for the whole team. He and the Project lead are in cahoots! I find the way he manages the team pretty weird. I sure hope my friend is giving me an accurate picture of the situation in his office. One thing for sure, after the recent episode, I am also condemning this company!
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
Hmm... does going to the Human Resource help? It is your word against your boss. In the event the Human resource do step in, your relationship with your boss will definitely be strained. And working together is going to be even more painful. Sigh... that is the scary part. He is not only hinting to you that he can see your mail. He can see everything you type as well. Making it so restrictive to work in such an environment! Going for a one hour lunch, he is expected to be back in the office within 45 mins. If you leave on the dot come knock off time, you will be frowned upon. Giving datelines like, I want it by 10 tomorrow morning, but only informing half an hour before the day ends. But if you work late, you are expected to complete your job by 8 as he will disconnect all connections to the server at 8pm. You cannot bring your work home due to the nature of the work. Sheez~~~!
@applefreak (3130)
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
personally i won't use my office email for private stuff. i also won't use my office computer for personal stuff. since the computer belongs to the company, my boss has every right to track my mail or keylog my computer. however, i'd stop at checking on credit card numbers. that is really sensitive information and his boss and no right to record it. key logging per se is not an offence. it just depend on what the person do with the information. if your friend's boss uses his credit card number to buy something, then of course it is illegal. my take on this is your friend's boss is trying to send a message to your friend. maybe he should stop doing personal stuff on office resources. not every boss is like that but maybe your friend's boss doesn't like it. cheers ;p
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
Well, I would think that using the computer during lunch for personal stuff like paying of bills is normal. Not everyone of us has the luxury to go shopping all the time. And with his boss always keeping check on his lunch time, it is hard to even go out. Tight deadlines means late work days and short weekends. And getting a gift for anniversary is something new couples treasure a lot. So I do not see anything wrong with buying something of the web during lunch time. In fact, my friend worked really hard to try and meet the demands of this boss. Cos the commute to work from his home is always jammed, he goes to work at 6.30 just tor each the office at 730 am, sometimes 700 just to avoid warning letters. Cos previously, he got warning letters for coming in late 15 minutes. But that was due to a an accident along the route to work, and the traffic was jammed up for that stretch for close to an hour before the bus could inch out of that area to make its way to the destination! You are right in that a boss can monitor the traffic from the computer. But to monitor to the point of knowing what is written when you are surfing the web?!? I personally think that is a infringement of privacy. I mean when you are demanding, there should be some leeway at certain portion of the way. No? No wonder he keep saying the turnover rate for that team is ridiculous!
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Well, he has since left the job. One thing let to another and he could not take it anymore. So he uprooted and left. Talk about being used as a puppet in the office. He managed to clean up the loose ends left by the previous fella. And then there is no more project at hand that is urgent. He was given a lousy review and let go just one day before his confirmation! Too much! Went to the Man power ministry, there is no recourse for him! Bunch of good the ministry is! Bah.... Humbug!
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
well i guess i'm used to it at work so i find that it's alright. not just where i'm working, some of my friends at different companies are treated this way too. we know for a fact that our emails are read on a regular basis. that's why i only use my office email for official purpose. our IT department also monitors our internet usage, maybe to the point of what we entered on any given websites. if i have to use internet for personal purpose, i usually log onto the internet with my mobile phone. i'd rather pay a little extra than to have people know my passwords and account numbers. maybe your friend should seriously consider reflecting this to his boss's boss. if not, another job looks like a good option too. cheers ;p
1 person likes this
@sudalunts (5523)
• United States
12 Aug 08
Actually at work the company has every right to monitor the activities done on their computers. If it is work related or not the boss is privvy to the employees emails as well. Now, were the credit cards his personal card, or expense cards given to him by the company? If it is a personal credit card, the employee does not have to divulge that information to the company. But then again, he is using the companie's computer. A PC is personal if it is yours. At my previous company we were told that our computer usage would be monitored by IT, because we are supposed to be working not doing personal things on the computer. I do not think there is a law to protect an employee who is using the companies computer. A computer at work is a tool used to get your job done, not to be used for personal use. A lot of companies are getting really strict about how their computers are being used. If my boss was to do that to me, there would be nothing I can say or do, because I am a paid employee and must conform to the company policies. I know a company executive who was fired because he was emailing to a co worker love letters. They were able to see his activities at work, and fired him because he was abusing his use on the computer
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
That is a little harsh isn't it? Is he reported for harassment or anything like that? Is his emailing of love letters affecting his performance on the job? Why wasn't he given a warning before being fired? I do understand that the company reserves the right to monitor the activities on the computer. But to the point where the boss can extract CC information, that is scary. And to me down right unethical. You are telling me that no one uses the email to surf the web for something other work every once in a while? I am sure there are guidelines on things like that. It is a matter of whether those guidelines are made known to you or not. If it is made known to you, and you still go ahead to use the computer for personal stuff, then you are asking for it. But if it is not made known to you? Does it still applies?
@zhaosonghan (1039)
• China
11 Aug 08
If my boss do this,i will tell him 'you are no right to do!',i think it's illegal,fortuately my boss don't do at all
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
11 Aug 08
Okay, it is good that your boss do not do that. But for discussion sake, what if your boss does it? He sniffs your mail. Tracks your web use. And also key logs your computer. Restricting access to the server that you are working on. And expect ridiculous datelines. What would you do?
• China
11 Aug 08
I will use this mail less,and don't send personal mail by it,i just only send mail about work,in this way,i don't care whether he sniff my mail,boss is just boss,he give me salary,i lived depend on it,so i have to bear it,please don't laugh at me...
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
No one is going to laugh at you. There is no reason to. That is your opinion. You are entitled to it. At least I know now that you find it acceptable that your boss can reply to your emails on your behalf. As long as it is related to work rite?
@ganda8831 (816)
• Philippines
12 Aug 08
I will simply resign...
2 people like this
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
That is provided you can afford to be jobless. My friend has a lot of commitment that does not allow him the luxury of being jobless. Other wise he would have quit a long time ago!
@34momma (13882)
• United States
11 Aug 08
wow that that sucks. i don't think i could work for a company that does that. i am not on here doing anything like looking for a new job or selling company secrets. but i don't want my boss coming back to me asking me how my son is doing because she read in a email that he was not feeling well. that would really get to me and i would not want to work there
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Yeah... it does get a little creepy doesn't it? I mean, I understand that a company has the right to track the internet traffic and the emails that goes in and out of the company. But these records are usually not opened to be viewed unless an investigation into suspected fraud or foul play is opened. To have a boss who read and listens to all your network traffic is really scary! And down right invasive IMHO. In fact, I find it totally unethical!
@jerzgirl (9233)
• United States
21 Aug 08
Here in the US, employers do have the right to know what you are doing on their computer equipment. They can, and do, monitor your email usage as well as your Internet usage. But, if anyone were to take private information they came upon while doing that monitoring and either used it or shared it with others, as your friend's boss seems to have done, that is a violation of the law. Not the invasion of privacy, because there is no real expectation of privacy at work, but more of an identity theft or identity violation thing. If I were your friend, if he hasn't done this yet, I would IMMEDIATELY report my credit cards as stolen and get them replaced!! And, then NEVER again use them while on the office computer!!
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
Oh yes, that is exactly what my friend did. He canceled his card totally. Then re-apply for a new one with a different card number just to be sure. And he swore off using the internet there after! Not even to research for work related stuff.
@successlog (3172)
• China
21 Aug 08
ahgong,i think it is really inconvenient if the boss check our emails.So for me, i always use my personal mail inbox if i contact with my personal friends,not on work.I don't want anyone to check my private information,including the boss if there are no things on work.of course, we have the public working mail daily. Additional, i will set up a personal login password into my computer.so no one can login into my pc except he get the password.lol good luck
@ahgong (10064)
• Singapore
21 Aug 08
I am sure you are not the only one who separates private mails from work mail. The problem is my friend is kept on his toes busy with work that he hardly have time to socialize during office hours. So much so that he got no time to go shop for a gift for his girlfriend for their special day. So he used the computer do make one purchase online. And he did it during lunch time too. Not even on company time! And he was mocked for it during the staff meeting. Which I feel is too much! Don't you think so too?