A heated discussion I just had ... regarding Parental Rights.. Please express..

@nanciem (1106)
United States
August 27, 2008 8:07pm CST
your views. Ok Just had a heated discussion with a friend about a mutual friend. You see Friend 1, had a baby, shee is soo sweet, the biological father wants nothing to do with the baby, the baby will be 1 year in September. This "father" has never even seen this baby, never! No support etc. the mom is a single mother, so it was not like an "Affair"; well friend 1, is going to be married soon (Yay! Love her); well the fiancee wants to adobt the baby, but is afraid that the "father" (UGH) may have issues with it (he does not know who the father is); Friend 1 tried to tell him, he did not want to know, loves her and the baby. Well, Friend 1 , told Friend 2, (call me friend 3), Friend 2 called friend 3 (myself) absolutley NUTSOLA about this new man wanting to adobt the baby. She started freaking about the Parental rights, and all this Legal Crap; we argued for awhile. My view is if, this so-called father wants nothing to do with this baby, never had, not even on the birth cert, and never wants any... He has no rights. She said well "boyfried/Fiancee" has no claim on this child.. This enraged me. This man was there when the baby was born, assembled her crib, every day he is with her.. how can he have no right? She said, in a court of law, that you cannot even argue that point, is she correct? If she is i beeter hurry up, call her back and apologize, because I was so upset that I hung up! Please share with me your thoughts!
14 people like this
41 responses
• United States
28 Aug 08
Is the "biological sperm donor" on the birth certificate?? My daughters is not. I didn't put him on there because he has no rights to a child he doesn't want. If he is not on it, then he should have no rights. If he is, then Friend 1 might have to get him to sign a paper relinquishing his 'parental rights'(not that he should get any), then the adoption can commence. I think every child should have loving parents, biological or not. Family is not based on DNA nowadays, in this day and age family is made up of those who love you. We 'adopt' many 'family' members in our lives, the ones we love, we keep. I have 4 biological nephews and 2 biological nieces, but I have an army of nieces and nephews I care about. Tell friend 2 to live up to her rank and stand up for her friend!! Doesn't she want the baby to be happy???
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi Jessi, No the sperm donor is not on the birth certificate, never wanted to be. When Friend 1 told him she was pregnant, he sent her a text saying "My gift to you, I want no part of it" I closed my mail so I cannot quote. He should have no rights, legally or morally. She should want that baby to be happy, and Friend 1 as well.
1 person likes this
@relundad (2311)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Legally, Mr.Sorry Excuse for a Father, he does have rights. But he would have to ask for them. Meaning that he would have to first show up and say that he is possibly the father. Because he is not declared as the father anywhere as of yet. At that point the mother, suspected child and proposing father would have to take DNA. If it is proved that he is the father then he could demand his rights. As well if the fiance or then husband decided that he wanted to adopt the child they would have to go thru the legal process of finding the "natural" father and seek permission to relinquish is parental rights. The process of finding the "natural" father will probally not find him, but all they have to prove is that the legal process was practiced. You can pretty much bet that he is not reading the legal postings in the newspaper to see if this mother and child is looking for him. One would assume that since he hasn't showed up to this point, he won't, but stranger things have happened.
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
You see , she my friend, knows exactly where he (father) is, she took a loan out for him a few years ago, he pays her in person every month. So he is very well aware of his child's age. He knows he is the father, sorry I am getting so confused LOL. I cannot imagine this "person" stepping up into court to say "I am the Father", unless there was money involved.
2 people like this
@relundad (2311)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Now I am confused. She she's the father, but the father has never seen the child? Has never supported the child? If she knows who this guy is and where he is and he doesn't want anything to do with the child, why wouldn't he allow the adoption. It may be more to this story than we know.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
No, you are not confused, that is exactly it. She sees the father monthly to collect the loan payment, he has never seen the baby, nor does he care. There is really not much to know other than what I have posted; see right now this is the way the father is, but people get strange, he may not want another man adopting her, he's actually a waste, people do strange things.. know what I mean?
1 person likes this
@soooobored (1187)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Does the "father" know about the baby? And denied support / visitation? Is it possible the mother never told him? And it sounds like the fiancee is the one who came up with this "obstacle" to adopting the baby, why would he do that if its something he really wants to do?
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
The father knows about the baby. He said in a text msg to the mother after she told him she was pregnant 'Well that is my gift to you, I want no more to do with this", that is what he sent to her in a text, so he dang well knows. I don't quite understand what you mean about the Finacee creating an "obstacle"; he does NOT know who the father is, and is just concerned that when he does try to adopt her, it may cause a problem, your response confuses me.
1 person likes this
• United States
28 Aug 08
The way I read it (and I may have read it wrong), was the fiancee wants to adopt, but is afraid the father will pose a threat to the adoption proceedings. The mother offered the father's name, and the fiancee didn't want to know? I'm just curious, he raised the idea of adopting the baby, then presented the challenge, and then backed off (or that's how it read). It sounded like you might have been a little aggressive in your response to me, but that might be just a miscommunication due to lack of tone in typing. I am just trying to respond as fairly as possible, so I asked for clarification on the points. Thanks!
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I Soooo, I meant no aggression, sorry about that. See Friend 1 (the mom) did offer the name of the baby's father to her fiancee, he did not want to know, he loves this lil girl! So he does want to adopt her when they do marry, but does have a concern that the biological father may have an issue with this, he has not recanted his statement about adopting the baby at all, I hope that is not how I typed it. My issue is this, with friend 2, she may be correct, I am not sure, but she said right now, fiancee has no claims to this baby, and the biological father does. It may not me legal here in NY, but morally he gave up his rights when he refused to have ANY part of this baby. I hope that is a little clearer. I don't want to miscommunicate what I am trying to say. Thanks again for taking the time!
@irishidid (8570)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Legally but by no means morally, yes he does have rights. Name on the birth certificate or not. From what you are saying it probably wouldn't take much to get him to sign those rights away or the judge can do it based on the lack of contact with the child.
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Can a judge actually decide that?
1 person likes this
@irishidid (8570)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Under certain circumstances. My sister in law went to court to get the right of the father severed so her husband could adopt. It was granted because it was proved the father was a danger to the child. I'm sure there are other legitimate reasons for a judge to do so.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
I sure hope so, I mean just refusing to be in this childs life alone! That is horrible!
• United States
28 Aug 08
I totally agree with you! This friend 2 should be ecstatic that friend one has found someone who loves friend one so much and wants the child to be part of his life. A big part! And should be ecstatic that this baby will have a worthwhile father growing up. The biological father gave up his parenting rights in my opinion when he basically disowned the child. I mean, even if legally you can't argue the point, who cares! She should be caring about what is right. The one dad is the biological father, but that by no means makes him the real dad that this kid has. Being a dad is more the a legal title IMHO, and she can argue about what happens in court all she wants, that doesn't make this guy not the baby's dad while it grows up.
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Thank you! This is what I am trying to convey, I got so tired of trying to present my point I hung up. I am even starting to question how good "Friend 2" is to "Friend 1 &3" Know what I mean?
1 person likes this
• United States
28 Aug 08
Yeah, I know what you mean. It seems like your friend should be supportive of her finding someone who accepts everything about her. But I guess not. Good friend?
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
I question that also
@fwidman (11515)
• United States
28 Aug 08
If the father has never even seen the baby, and wants nothing to do with it, I don't see how he would have any rights, and if he did, why would he complain about the adoption? If he makes a claim to the baby then he would have to pay some sort of support for seventeen years. I doubt he'd want that either! Also, if he is not listed on the birth certificate, that's too bad for him! I applaud the fiance and his adoption plan
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Thank you so much for your response, while I was in a conversation with 'friend 2 " I felt like I was getting nowhere REALLY fast and I was the only one feeling this way, so I thank you. Yes, he is a great guy, he loves this baby, how can he be denied any right to her? Grr makes me upset!
2 people like this
@fwidman (11515)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Take a few deep breaths and try to calm down
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Whew, Whew, Thanks! LOL it does help, but I am still upset! LOL
1 person likes this
@ganda8831 (816)
• Philippines
28 Aug 08
I think the biological father has no right in any way to the child. From the very start he didn't give anything to the child so why would he have any right as a father? If the boyfriend wants to adopt the baby there is really no legal impediment to that. As a matter of fact the biological father should be thankful because his child is going to have a good father that will love him even if he's not his real child.
2 people like this
@know21 (1251)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Even though the father didn't give anything to the child from the beginning, and it shouldn't be right. The father still has rights.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
In a perfect world , yes the biological father should be happy, but he doen't care. I just can't see what rights he should be afforded, he's a donor in my eyes.
1 person likes this
@Chevee (5915)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I don't know that much about the law, but I know about human feelings, I think she should consult a lawyer, and let the fiancee adopt the baby. Why deny the baby the love of a father, if he (the fiancee) wants to be the father then let him, the biological father cannot deny this child and then when he changes his mind on his on time come back into to the child life to make up for time lost. It doesn't work that way. Let the fiancee be the father and when the child becomes an adult and decide that he/she wants to search for his/her father let him.. Let the child grow with a father.
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
That is what I told Friend 2, 'When he decides to be a dad?.. Ummm NOPE" it does not work that way, she could not comprehend what I was saying, she kept on, and on, like a broken record. I know this can be argued in court, I am no Lawyer, but I cannot be that stupid! LOL
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
opps I swear I can spell Adopt! LOL Sorry all!
2 people like this
@tlb0822 (1412)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I think if the father never seen the baby and wants nothing to do with the baby, then the fiance should adopt it. I don't see how there is so much conflict, if the father isn't on the birth certificate and never showed any interest, then why not have someone who actually wants to be the father be on the birth certificate. Anyone can be a father...but it takes a real man to be a dad. So i would tell your friend to let her fiance adopt the child, and not to worry about the "real- father" I think it will make their family much happier.
2 people like this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
Oh I am sure they will be very happy, they are right now; hopefully it will only get better, and also no conflicts! Thank you for taking time out of your day to reply! :)
@laglen (19782)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I think its wonderful that this guy wants to be a father! Friend one shold see a lawyer. If the bio dad wants nothing to do with the baby, he can sign over rights. If he won't, the court can take away his rights. Screw the dumb guy and let the man who wants to be a dad, be one!
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Thank you so much!
2 people like this
• United States
28 Aug 08
You said the biological father's name is not on the birth certificate. Did I understand that correctly? If this is the case, from what I understand, if the father's name is not on there, he hasn't been around in the past year, not even to see what the baby looked like, it should not be a problem for the fiance to adopt her. And, yes, you can argue that point in a court of law. They may have to find the biological father and have him sign away his rights, but I am not even sure about that if his name does not appear on the birth certificate.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Yes, you are correct, his name is not on the cert. He has not even seen this beautiful little girl.. oh she has those cheeks you want to pinch! LOL But, hey... wait a second... you are so right! Now, the mother of this "man" (lack of a better word) is in constant contact with the baby, so is his sister, if he is not on the cert, the new man tries to adopt, do they have a say? What if a DNS is ordered?
2 people like this
• United States
28 Aug 08
The only way they are going to want dna testing is if the fiance claims he is the biological father and the real biological father shows up to contest that, which seems unlikely in this case. Although, it has happened. If the fiance does adopt the little girl, perhaps the mother and sister can sit down with the baby's mother and her fiance and work out some kind of visiting rights. It doesn't sound to me like the fiance has tried to keep them from seeing her.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
They have not prevented the family from seeing her at all! and I know he would not claim to be the biological father, he just loves them both SOOO Much; and you know... they need that. So actually I am happy now! LOL Thanks so much! If you saw the cheeks on this lil one, you would smile, lsugh and cry she is that cute, they deserve to be happy!
1 person likes this
@know21 (1251)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I might be a little confused here. What your saying is that your friend is going to get married, and the man she is marring wants to adopt her child because the father wants nothing to do with the baby. Am I right so far. And she is worried about parental rights. It sounds to me the father of this child does not want any parental rights. Now if her fiancee does adopt the baby; what I understand is that the child will not be allowed anything from her father. Not even child support; or any other kind of income. But don't quote me on this I maybe wrong; but I think he still has some rights even though his name is not a birth certificate.
@sid556 (31005)
• United States
28 Aug 08
If he signs papers to allow another man to adopt his child, he relinquishes all parental rights...he has none. At the same time, he does relinquish all responsibilities. Basically...he is no longer a parent in that childs life other than physically.
1 person likes this
@cecelgay (563)
• Philippines
28 Aug 08
About the biological father's right thing even he did not acknowledge it on the birthcertificate? I would disagree with you.. First of all he has no proof that the child is his. Ok, If he (biological father) will claim and present no proof it will be considered as a "hersay" unless he'll got some proof that the child is his.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi All, maybe I was unclear. This man does not deny he is the biological father, he just wants nothing to do with the baby. She does not even give a hoot about child support, she is aware that if he does sign over rights, it's all or nothing. She is receiving nothing from him, she is doing it with her own income and salary, and family support. There is no other possible father, as I know this woman, she was trying to get pregnat with this man... no way no how, there is any other possibility, so that comment about the father not even knowing if he is, hogwash, he knows he is. This is not a Maury subject, fact is this man wants nothing to do with the baby, he does not deny being the biological father, just denies being a Father/Daddy
1 person likes this
• United States
28 Aug 08
My belief is that if one parent screws up, or both parents screw up, then the children should be put into protective services until the parents can prove that they are fit to take care of their children again. In the case of a woman and man fighting over custody of a child, do a substance test on both parents, see who has the true means to take care of the child, and then choose who the child should go to.
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Huh? This has nothing to do with what I am posting. There is no abuse, there is no need for child protective services to be involved. This baby is WELL taken care of, I don't know where you came up with this. You have to read my post again, this is not about anything like you just posted.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Aug 08
Oh, sorry, well, both parents have equal rights to the child until one of the parents gives up those rights. If the biological father's name is on the birth certificate, then he has rights to the child until he gives up those rights. She has to get permittion from the biological father to give up the child solely to her. My father had custody of me until he gave up those rights.
@pkraj111 (2459)
• India
28 Aug 08
I tell you an incident I read about in local news papers some time back. There's a guy who fathered a child without marrying the girl and he told the girl he had nothing to do with the girl. It is she who should have taken care. The girl later married another guy just like your friends boyfriend, who is willing to take care of the baby. Later the first guy married a rich girl. After about 5 years doctors told him, he cannot have children due to some disorder. The guy then thought about the child he already fathered and went to court for his rights! It had been a bitter quarell as the second guy refused to give away the girl he now adored. At last the first guy had been denied any rights as the kid decided to stay with her mother(she is 12 year old by that time). So the morale of the story is there are many maniacs in the society who think for themselves and are not bothered about as to what others think of them. So I would say that your friend has to take some thing in writing from the biological father denying any future rights. That is just to make sure there is no fight in which the kid is abused
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi pkraj! Thank you for the story, and you are so correct. This is exactly what she will need to do, I would assume after a DNA, I think? I don't know, I believe that if the fiancee tries to adopt the baby, and the deadbeat tries to gain rights, or dispute then it would be a problem. I cannot forsee him doing this as he is a loser in my eyes! Hope for the best! Thanks again! Talk soon!
1 person likes this
@cecelgay (563)
• Philippines
28 Aug 08
Hi pkraj! your clever... I admire you for that... I think that would be the right thing to do, Hahaha! I remember when i have decided and talk to my partner that i moving out with my kids i told him that i want my kids to get all the rights from him especially when it comes to education support, he said to me that he will not abandon the rights to his kids but i told him how can i get assurance that he will give what he says to me, then suddenly i suggested him to have a written agreement stating that he will support my kids financially especially at their education. He call me "sigurista" it means a person who make sure of everything. LOL! I am just getting what is for my kids.. Then i think that's the best way your friend should do, any court will accept it as a proof that he already deny his rights to the child.
@cecelgay (563)
• Philippines
28 Aug 08
As you have said the biological father dont want to do anything for his child and he didn't even bother to see his child upto this time, he did not acknowledge also the child as his child, i dont see any problem if the fiancee of your friend want to adopt the baby, the biological father dont even have a single proof document that the child is his, so waht's the problem with that? Your friend and his fiancee are getting married and what his fiancee want is to make the child legitimate, as you've said this fiancee is there from the time that the child was born and etc. he's already doing the father thing to the child the only thing that the fiancee dont have is the child is not his own blood and thru adoption he want to claim the child as his own. I've never seen any problem about that...
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I understand what you are saying, our concern is that what if, just if, this "man" (UGH) tries to pull something. Know what I mean? I do not think he should have any rights to this child, in my eyes he gave them p already.. why try now?
1 person likes this
@sid556 (31005)
• United States
28 Aug 08
your friend is wrong. Step father can adopt baby. He has to file the paper work and the "real" father has to sign papers that sign him off from all parental rights. IF the real father has a problem with this ( which usually these types are more than willing to sign off), it can be taken to court. The "real" dad can have his say as to why this man should not be allowed to adopt his son. If he's as bad as what you say...I doubt there'd be a problem...i seriously doubt he'd even show up for the court date. So anyway, your friend is very misinformed.
1 person likes this
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
This is my view as well. If he wants nothing to do with 'Chubby Cheeks" then so be it! I highly doubt he would even show up as you stated, and I hope, when it does come to it he doesn't, I do not feel he should even have a voice in this matter.
1 person likes this
@Kat4676 (474)
• United States
28 Aug 08
If the biological is not on the birth certificate and did not sign a right of parentage at the birth or anytime there after, he had NO rights. :D My fiance had to sign a right of parentage when our son was born as we were not married. That is here in Minnesota so, should not be any different in another state. Does she talk to the "biological" at all? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If the fiance was there since day 1, he has all the right in the world. He is who the little one is going to see as "Daddy" cuz he was there. Here is a site that may help: http://www.adoption.com
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
Yes, she speaks with the bio, she took a loan out awhile back for him in her name, so he see her 1 time a month to pay that.. So you figure, pregnant for 9 months (she did go full term), baby is 12 months... so that is 21 times he has see the mom, never ONCE did he ask to see the baby! To me right there, he gave up his rights, it's just the legal problem now ;(
@Barb42 (4216)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I think you are right. This guy doesn't want a thing to do with the baby, or he'd have to pay child support. What is wrong with this guy she's about to marry wanting to adopt that child? He'll raise it as his own. This other friend of yours is crazy. Too many people are into the legitimate parent (the father),but to me, it takes MORE than making a baby to be a father to a child! The only thing is, though, she might have to go through court to get him to actually sign away his rights. My brother adopted his 2nd wife's 3 children, but they had to wait for a time, then had to get the other father to sign a paper to let him adopt them. He had not trouble doing it since he didn't want to support them anyway. But you always have these nut cases! My brother's adopted daughter had a child and it's other grandmother told that child that my brother was NOT her grandfather, that they weren't even kin. And her mother had a son by another guy (2nd husband) and this woman also told her that this little boy wasn't even her brother! There are always trouble makers!!
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi Barb, thank you for your response. What you say is what I am trying to say LOL, there are nut cases out there, he wants nothing to do with the chuby cheeks baby (man she is so sweet), but what if when he finds out, he just wants to be spiteful, some people as you know do this, that's why I was 'hoping" there was something else, like abandonment or something.
@Barb42 (4216)
• United States
28 Aug 08
I don't know about the case for abandonment. That might come into play here since his name isn't on the birth certificate and he hasn't seen the baby this entire year. The only thing I know for her to do is ask a lawyer. But this 3rd friend needs to be quiet and let this couple figure this out on their own. If the guy knew she was pregnant with his child and had nothing to do with her, that might be a clue as to what might happen. I know I have heard cases where a woman never told an EX she was pregnant. Then when he found out after the baby was born, he figured out he was the father and pressed for part custody. Hope this isn't the case here. By the way, is this 3rd friend a friend of the ex boyfriend of this woman?
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi Barb, Ok, Friend 1 is The Mommy, Friend 2 is a mutual friend (the one I had a heated convo with); Friend 3 would be myself. Now, I am "involved" because Friend 1 asked my advice, and also that of Friend 2, so we were discussing all this. Sorry had I work call, I have to go back and read your post, so here is half of my response
• United States
28 Aug 08
Mom's boyfriend is not going to have any rights of the child what so ever. Even if he marries the childs mom. It is still not his child and unless the real father gives up his rights then he can not adopt the child. I think your friend is moving too fast. The kid isn't even one yet and she is already with another man and wanting to marry him.
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
Well, you have to look at it this way, Friend 1 (the Mom) was actually pregnat for 9 months, the baby is just about one year now (September 13); he (Bio Dad has been out of her life for 18 months now. Her fiancee is a 'Re-Kindled relationship, they broke up a few years ago, but prior to that they dated for 7 years. I do not think that 18 months is moving too quickly at all; especially when the Bio dad wants NOTHING to do with them, he hasn't even seen this baby, yet he see the mom every month to pay his debt. I am sorry I do not agree. but I do appreciate your input!
• United States
29 Aug 08
I don't think she is a bad Mom or anything, and it being a rekindled relationship does make the situation a little different. She really needs to get her ex to sign over his rights because he could show up and take the baby and there is nothing she can do about it. There is no custody agreement so it wouldn't be considered kidnapping. If she was to die who do you think gets the kid? It won't matter who she would prefer have the child, the child goes to his real dad. These are things you might stress on her. For the childs sake.
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
29 Aug 08
Oh my, you are right! Didn't even think that far, and if I did I would just assume the Mom of Friend 1 would get the child, now I see this is just that an 'Assumption" thank you for the enlightment! very much appreciated!
• Alexandria, Virginia
28 Aug 08
what country are you in
@nanciem (1106)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Hi Shoffman, I am in NY USA
@snowy22315 (49071)
• United States
28 Aug 08
Generally you are entitled to child support i do not know if the father is required to pay college education. Generally the more the father sees the child more liquely he will pay child support I think you need a mediator most of your problems go bye bye