Stubborn... Stubborn... Stubborn!!!!

Little Miss Stubborn - A character that I used to read about when I was a kid.
@ahgong (10086)
Singapore
September 1, 2008 1:47am CST
There is a chinese saying that goes "Ming Zhi Shan You Hu, Hai Wang Hu Shan Xing". Loosely translated, it says, "Knowing that there is a tiger in the mountain, one still goes towards the mountains". In other words, it means going towards danger when you know full well there is danger up ahead. Well, this phase has been playing out in mind mind an awful lot of late. Partly it is because I am witnessing an issue similar to what was described above. Well, in a situation where you know someone is going the wrong way to get things done, what would you do? If you warn the fella about the dangers and the pit falls of his course of action, and he still stubbornly goes ahead to get things done his way, what would you do? Does it makes a difference whether that fella is related to you by blood or not?
5 people like this
8 responses
@Jul14nch0 (1414)
• Argentina
2 Sep 08
I would try to warn him, if he dosn't change his mind, let him do whatever he want to do and if he fails he will learn from his own mistakes.
2 people like this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
8 Sep 08
Hmm... then there would be a whole host of questions as well. What happens if the mistake he makes the mistake and never comes out of it? What happens if he makes the mistake and only realized his folly much much later in his life? At a point in his life where it is too late to make amends? I am sure there are a whole host of what happens to ask. But knowing full well that he is going to make a mistake that will not only affect his life, but the people in his life as well, you would stand by and watch him make the mistake without intervening?
@monkeysay (228)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
Hello "grandfather", I think we have no obligation to interfere in someone affairs, related or not. The only thing we can do, as a friend/relative/family member, is to tell him about the risks he is getting himself into. If he insists on plunging himself into danger there is nothing you can do other than wishing him good luck. Just my 0.2 cents.
• Singapore
1 Sep 08
Wrong lah, Ah Gong! I think it is pian1 (deliberately) not hai and then it is xiang4 (facing/direction) not wang. But you said someone is going the wrong way? Then the above is not so suitable. It is more for things that you know are dangerous yet you still must do. Not too suitable to describe bad things. Maybe, it is more like dang1 ju2 zhe3 mi2... he is stuck in the situation so he cannot see clearly. So you help him lah! Blood or no blood, you like him then help lor. But chances are fair that he will not listen. It is always like that one. Few like to listen to advice. We must experience for ourselves then we are satisfied. This is in our human genes ha!
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
ha ha ha ha ha... thanks for the correction my friend. I have not used my chinese in a while. It is getting a little rusty. You are right... it should be "Ming Zhi Zhan You Hu, Pian Wang Hu Shan Xing"! Well, sometimes, when you are looking at a situation from the outside, you know full well the whole picture, you would want to advise the person who is involved so that he can make a better decision to get out of it. Problem is, when this person who initially is in the Dang Ju Zhe Mi, is given advise, he still Zhi Mi Bu Wu and go ahead with his own decision. I mean, if you are sitting at the passenger seat of a car, and you are holding the map and you know that there is a cliff up head. The driver is still going straight after you tell him of the cliff, what can you do? 1) Jump out of the car and let the person continue with his course? Or 2) Pull the hand brake and try to save both you and the driver? The stubborn fella now is the driver. And you are the passenger. What would you have done?
1 person likes this
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
But hang on, what makes you (or anyone else) think you (or anyone else) are right? Are you in fact the ming wan bu ling one? I don't know what the real situation is. Take an example. This guy wants to go into forex. You shake your head and tell him that you lost a fortune there before. It is certainly bad business and he should not even start. YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT. He refused to listen to you and you continue hoping he would listen. In the end, 10 years down the road, he became the most celebrated forex trader ever known in the history of Man and pushed aside Warren Buffett to be the world's richest man. What gives? So what makes YOU think you are RIGHT? There is really no right or wrong in life. There is just your chosen path. So as you had free will to choose your own path, why not let him choose his own path too? Be it right or wrong, as YOU think it. As for your cliff example, WHAT IF he went over the "cliff" and find a new paradise there? Before you stopped him, he would be "safe" on this side of the "cliff". But if you had not stopped him from doing what was "wrong", he would have discovered another world beyond and become another Christopher Columbus. Right or wrong. It's just a matter of perspective. Cheers.
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
You raised some really good points there too my friend. Hmm... maybe I am not looking at the situation from a far enough perspective to see the actual big picture I thought I saw. Guess it is time to re-evaluate the situation. Hmmm... *food for thought*. I still think that if you know the fellow is going to drive over the cliff, it is better to stop and evaluate the situation before confirming the decision to go ahead and drive straight to jump over the cliff. I mean, you know that there is a tiger in the mountains. If you are well prepared to face the consequences of meeting the tiger, be it good or bad, then go ahead. What I cannot comprehend is why some people are so thick in the numskull that they cannot even take a short break to re-evaluate their options rather than jump straight into the one they FEEL is right. FEEL is the key word here. A person with wisdom will always tamper some facts and evaluation into their feelings before going ahead with a task. That is how a successful person achieve success. Not bull doze their way to the top. Most often then not, those who try to bulldoze are the ones that fail miserably. Agree?
1 person likes this
@kun2349 (23475)
• Singapore
1 Sep 08
Just let them do whatever they like lo.. SInce u have already warned him, and he has to bear the consequences of his own actions.. If he fails miserably, he cant blame anyone but himself for being too stubborn.. lol =D And it's good in a way that he is able to learn his lesson the hard way ^_^ hehe
• Singapore
1 Sep 08
Yea, we all need to learn ourselves...
2 people like this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
The problem with some people is, even after getting knocked silly in the university of life, they are still so head strong and stubborn in wanting to do things their way. I guess for some, they have to really scrape bottom before they can come out of the ashes a new, much like a phoenix. Problem is time waits for no one. AND with age catching up, we do not have a lot of time or opportunities to go on experimenting till we get it right. Best is to take in the advise around you and evaluate the situation before going a head. Save one a bunch of headaches. Not to mentioned, the time save in getting to the goal is also so much faster! And of course the success rate is also higher. No?
1 person likes this
@kun2349 (23475)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
Not really so.. Even a phoenix can also die.. haha No matter what, it all boils down to each individual's character. so will listen to advice, but they dun go ahead and take action, so it's no point for them to listen and dun do anything about it..
1 person likes this
@poohgal (6848)
• Singapore
1 Sep 08
Ok.. I have never heard of that saying (cannot recall at all) but I do understand the translation. I'm that sort of person - Stubborn! When I've set my mind into doing something, it's very difficult for others to change my mind. My friends have tried to dissuade me from certain things before. I do appreciate their advices but most of the time, I sticked to my original decision. I always believe.. if you never try, you'll never know. I do not wish to live a life regretting what I've Not done. Whenever my friends seek advices from me, I'll just offer a listening ear and try not to say so much. Most of the time, people are not really seeking for advices. They already had a rough idea what to do or what not to do (procrastinators excluded). They are seeking more for someone to listen to them and reaffirm their decision. I know you have kind intention for your friend but perhaps you should just let him try it. I'm sure he already knows the consequences. Since he is willing to take the risk, let him. We are all adults so we can be responsible for our own actions. I'm sure he knows about that.
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
8 Sep 08
Well, that is all about I can do now. I am just hoping and praying that they will wake up their ideas when they do attempt what ever they are pursuing. There are certain things in life that you know is just wrong. And if the fella insist, what can you do. It is like telling a fella not to smoke in a flammable area. But he insist, what are you going to do? Would you go all out to stop him from doing so? Or would you just let him light that match to see if he gets burnt or not? There are some who are being stubborn because they know full well what they want and they know that the road less traveled could be be the way to reach their goal. But there are some that are being defiant just because they could. These are the ones that really makes your skin crawl at times!
1 person likes this
@poohgal (6848)
• Singapore
8 Sep 08
Being defiant?! He sounds childish. But well, we all lead our own lives and we have to be responsible for our own actions. There are a few things in life which I think are wrong( ie. murder, rape, theft, adultery, infidelity, immoral things and etc). For all others, I think it's subjective. If he is doing the above mentioned things, then yes, you should lock him up and stop him. If not, just let him try but do remind him to be responsible for his own actions. He better not cry and regret what he is going to do or has done.
@squaretile (3835)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
well I guess I would try my best to add my two cents worth to try to influence this friend's decision. sometimes i think it is harder if the person is related to me by blood. there is a chance that the person is less likely to listen to me. and if the person is related by marriage, i.e. in-laws, I will even hesitate more to point out that I think the person is going to wrong way because it could seriously jeopardise the relationship. people hate to be told that what they are doing is wrong. So it all depends on how close I am to the person and how much that person respects my views.
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
2 Sep 08
That is precisely why human are full of paradoxes. On one hand they want to, or need to be supported to achieve success. Yet, when they are making mistakes, they do not like to be told that they are going down the wrong path! Sigh... the silliness in people really stump me at times. No wonder in they say life is difficult. People are the ones who make it difficult.
@Hatley (157679)
• Garden Grove, California
2 Sep 08
hi ahgong yes it matters if that fellow is related to me, I have seen my own son going about the wrong way to get things done and tried to reason with him, and he acts like he did not hear] or want to hear.What wou ld I do, just what I am doing, say it again, and again until he listens. lol.
1 person likes this
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
8 Sep 08
That is what most parents would do. Then if you stand on their end to see yourself, you would be just another broken record going on and on, over and over again, saying the same thing. What would they do naturally? They would just ignore and switch off or shut you out when you are talking! Much like what one of the comics is showing every weekend in the sunday papers. I will try to find that strip and post it here. What would you do in such a case? No matter how you nag, it will not even penetrate those thick numskull. What steps would you then take to try and get your message through?
@applefreak (3133)
• Singapore
1 Sep 08
well, there is also another chinese saying that is some sort of a retort. it goes 'Bu Ru Hu Xue, Yan De Hu Zi'. it literally translate to 'how do you get a tiger cub without going to the tiger den'. some times we take risks because we feel it's worth it. i know we want the best for our loved ones. i would have done what you did and warn that person about all the dangers / pit falls. however, if the person still chose to go ahead, then it is really a personal choice. cheer ;p
@ahgong (10086)
• Singapore
8 Sep 08
Well, like I wrote below, if the risk is well worth it to take, then by all means. Taking your example of the tiger, if the person knows why he is going after he cub for, then it may be worth the risk to acquire the cub. But the problem with my friend here is, he doesn't even know whether he wants the cub or not. He is just trying to go after the cub cos everyone is telling him it is not worth it. I guess we being the older ones, having been there and done that, know full well it is not worth the effort. Yet here you are seeing the same thing happening! In our time, we do not have the luxury of someone telling us or advising us what to do and when to do it. Now, with our wealth of experience, no one wants to tap on it. Sigh... sad... just sad...