Has this woman gone too far? As it relates to politics, what is too far?

@ladyluna (7004)
United States
September 15, 2008 11:55am CST
Hello All, The question is simple really. What constitutes 'too far'? Is there any question that Jill Greenberg has gone too far? Who, pray tell is Jill Greenberg, one might ask. Well, she is a photographer. She might prefer to be called an artist. I have to admit that I'm given to questioning whether or not she is a candidate for an in-patient, mandatory, 30-day psychiatric observational period. Please take a moment to read the lead story at the following site: http://michellemalkin.com/ Then, if you would be so kind, would you please explain whether or not Jill Greenberg has gone too far, and why? Am I the only one who senses a serious imbalance in the mind of anyone who would willingly fabricate/create such images? Is there no consideration of how a candidate's family might react? What about the very young children who may see this, and the terrifying nightmares that might follow? Thank you for taking the time to access the linked site. If you did, you clearly understand why I consciously chose to not give Jill Greenberg any more visual coverage than she has already received. Where has the civility gone???
6 people like this
18 responses
@newtondak (3950)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Yes, she has definitely gone too far, and I think the fact that she would do such a think discredits her as any kind of moral or ethical person.
• United States
15 Sep 08
There isn't a word to describe just "how far" I think she's gone. I put her in the same category as my EX.....I don't have to go around discrediting his character or making him look bad. He does a wonderful job -- all on his own, just like this chick. When someone is filled with that kind of evil, it can't be surpressed very long before they spew it all over the place. I just love it when people hang themselves. Yes, there is such thing as freedom of speech, but it's her so called "art" and intentions that bother me.
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Newtondak, I guess that it would be easy to be confident in speculating that 'moral' and 'ethical' are probably adjectives that are used sparingly in descriptions of this particular photographer.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Soldierswife, First, I'd like to welcome you to MyLot. I hope that you thoroughly enjoy your time here. Second, I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but members are only eligible to receive a 'Best Response' if they submit their own independent response. You're certainly welcome to reply to another response. Though, you'll find that the norm is to then also add one's own response. Of course, by doing so you can easily track the discussions that you have responded to under your 'Responded' category. If you don't provide a separate, independent response, you're going to have to hunt all over to follow up on discussions that you have responded to. I hope that I'm not being redundant, and that that is at least somewhat useful information to you. Now to your thoughts about this photographer: I agree that she's gone too far by stepping over the bounaries of decency. I'm just sorry as could be that you can equate her to your ex. My heart goes out to you! What's more, I fully concur with your concern for the 'art' and the intentions. You raise a very interesting point that intention cannot be overlooked in such actions. Troubling, very troubling indeed!
1 person likes this
@underdogtoo (9599)
• Philippines
15 Sep 08
This might be an engaging preoccupation but I am not inclined to give more life than any issue deserves. Fuel it with your ire and you are just adding to the fire. Like you said, "who is Jill Greenburg?" I don't know and I don't care and that is the way I like it. Have a nice day!
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Underdogtoo, Fair enough! Though, the dilemma is demonstrated by the sage observation of Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." What say you?
1 person likes this
• Philippines
16 Sep 08
I am constantly waging battles with evil in this world starting with the evil within my own mind. We all have our demons and this is where the battle is waged the fiercest. Externally, I am in food production using natural means where I allow the indigenous organisms to thrive and work their magic on the soil and environment. I do not use commercial fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, etc. which poison the soil. I also have goats, cattle, chickens which are grown naturally and fed natural foods including lactobacillus which kills e. coli and salmonella. In America, the need and greed for profits have caused large-scale commercial production of animals for food which have resulted in degrading the quality of meat, causing it to be tainted with fecal matter and even contaminating the water table. I could go on and on. I prefer to do my work with actions rather than criticizing others. They will just die away when the rhetoric no longer holds water. The demons will die away due to lack of reaction.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello Underdogtoo, As you aptly point out, there is no shortage of battles to be waged. I guess the salient point is that we must each choose our own battles, and then fight them to the best of our ability. Thank you for sharing your perspective. Thank you for the follow up, Underdogtoo.
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Ladyluna, How are you doing these days? First I would like to state my opinion of Ms. Greenberg and that is as follows; Ms. Greenberg is obviously a Michael Moore wannabe with a camera and an infantile grasp of the program Photoshop! Anyone who would purposely make a child cry to further their political agenda is more than sick! I hope the Atlantic uses every recourse it has available to make her pay for the misuse of the photos she took while under contract to them!
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Greetings Sir Rodney, Hey, is that a 500 that I see after your avatar??? Let me take this opportunity to send out a hearty Congratulations, and to ask if you ever found out what happened to the 10 missing posts? OK, now to the disturbing, if not somber ... Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this photographer. I agree that her treatment of children (including her own) and their parents is quite troubling. I also hope that the Atlantic stands firm in their condemnation of this artist. If that includes punitive action, based on the fact that the artist misappropriated images garnered at a shoot contracted with the Atlantic, then so be it. Quite frankly, I have to imagine that even Michael Moore would take offense at the comparison.
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 08
Congrats Rodney on the 500! I am a bit envious, but I'm working on it!
2 people like this
@rodney850 (2145)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Thanks for the kudos for the 500 although it is my second time around! Sure hope I get to keep it this time!
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8160)
• United States
15 Sep 08
It seems to me that a person who feels a need to produce "art" like this is sick. What I found more upsetting was her treatment of children to get them to cry so she could produce an anti Bush exhibit. How sick is that hurt children to promote your hatred?
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Bobmnu, I agree that there is something very unsettled about anyone who would go to these lengths to visually represent their own seething hatred. How sick is it to deliberately manipulate, and abuse children -- or the general public to such self-serving ends? I honestly couldn't say, Bobmnu. However, I doubt that anyone would welcome the opportunity to argue the artists professional conduct. Though, the question remains: Has the artist gone too far? Or is this to be expected as sanctioned 'political discourse'?
1 person likes this
@Destiny007 (5820)
• United States
16 Sep 08
This would be a fine example of going too far, however this is what we have come to expect from the liberals. They will do and say whatever is necessary in order to try to make those who oppose them look bad. To these people, the end justifies the means, and there are no limits to what they are capable of. You ask where the civility has gone, it disappeared when the left declared war on everything good and decent in America. The picture of McCain with the blood running from his mouth is indicative of the way these liberals are inside... they care for nothing other then their self serving agenda and are for of revulsion and hatred of anyone who disagrees with them.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello Destiny, My sincerest apologies for being slower than molasses in getting back to you. I expected this week to shape up lightly, and it hasn't turned out as planned. Grrr! Anyway, I cannot imagine that the Saul Alinsky tactic of the ends justifying the means is not a reality in this example of extremist activism. Although, I also see the potential of an ego-centric, 'capitalist pig'(???) in this photographers actions. I cannot say for sure, but it seems to me that her activism is/has and financially benefitted her since she snapped the photos, and posted the adaptations on her website. Which says nothing of the benefit to her counter-culture, cutting edge kind of reputation. How much is that reputation boon worth, in a dollars and cents way? Did she corrupt the images of Sen. McCain in the hope that some simililary nutty Hollywood activist would pay big bucks for the 'art'? I cannot say, yet I wouldn't be surprised if that was the parallel intention to the personal politics of her 'work'. If what you've suggested is true, that she is on the inside as she presents herself in her work, then I will say that I'm certainly glad that I'm not her! I cannot imagine what it would be like to live with that kind of cancerous ugliness in my heart. Nor do I care to imagine it. It is my choice to live with a very different reality of the heart, mind and spirit. Of course, I believe the key word is CHOICE. We can choose to let this kind of rancor overtake us, or not. And, I believe that too many people have forgotten that they have a choice in this regard. I will reiterate your answer to the question about civility because I find it so thought provoking: "You ask where the civility has gone, it disappeared when the left declared war on everything good and decent in America." Although the subjectivity of your answer could be argued all day long, I believe that your answer is one that I will ponder appropriately. If different people can subjectively declare that good and decent represent two drastically different realities, then is it more appropriate for them to try to force the one perspective on the other? Or, should they find a way to respect the opposites? And, is it even possible for these diametrically opposed definitions of good and decent to coexist? I sure don't have the answer. Though, I welcome the arrival of November 5th, when this seige upon the sensibilities of the American People will be over and done with, at least for this election cycle. So Destiny, are you as fatigued by all of this as I am??
1 person likes this
• United States
17 Sep 08
Absolutely, and every day just gets worse. I just can't seem to find the time to do the things I want to do and also post the things that need posting, and the pile is just getting larger. There is so much information not being released by the MSM, and so many questions not being asked while Palin is being held under a microscope in an obvious attempt to deflect interest away from properly vetting 0bama. I found something just yesterday that showed he actually asked the Iraqis to hold off on troop withdrawals until after the election so that he could get the credit for it instead of Bush. Then there is this whole investment banking mess along with Fannie and Freddy that Bush is being blamed for, when in fact this is a direct result of many years of Congressional failure, with a democrat seemingly holding the majority of the responsibility, as he is in charge of that committee, and has ignored numerous concerns about impending problems... saying that it would be all right...except of course it wasn't and now we are on the hook for bailing these organizations out as a result of their mistakes. So yeah... I'm tired of it. I think we need to clean the whole damn bunch of them out and start with a fresh batch who actually knows what the US Constitution says and will follow it. I think we need to hold the MSM accountable for their failure to be objective, and their coverup of any damaging information on 0bama. They are supposed to be reporting the news, not campaigning for or against the candidates. Then we have Pelosi claiming Bush is a failure, yet his approval rating is more than three times higher than the approval rating of the democrat led Congress that she is a member of. Has anyone else noticed that the economy didn't tank until AFTER the democrats took over? Everyone wants to talk about the so called surplus that Clinton left {a lie, but whatever) yet it was a republican Congress that even made such a claim possible... does anyone see the significance there? Then Gibson interviews Palin and deliberately misquotes her about God being on our side in Iraq, and tries to make much of her religion, yet 0bam slipped up and admitted his Muslim faith in an interview and the interviewer quickly corrected him and glossed it over. Then Gibson tries to catch Palin out about the Bush Doctrine, and he didn't even get it right, yet he was trying to show Palin was unprepared, when she actually gave the NATO (or UN) position on foreign policy. So yeah, I am pretty well tired of the mindless character assassinations from the left and the Soros robots from MoveOn and the like.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
18 Sep 08
Hello Destiny, You raise so many good points. To touch on one issue that is very troubling to me: I see that the MSM is conspicuously negligent in their coverage of Sen. Obama's violation of the Logan Act (not so unlike Nancy Pelosi in her 4/2007 trip to Syria). Sen. Obama unwittingly confirmed his Logan Act violation allegation in his 'loose lips sink ships' absent-mindedness of his 6/16/08 NYT interview. "Further, according to the New York Times in a report on June 16, Obama himself has confirmed his actions... "Recalling his meeting with Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama said in the Times report, "My concern is that the Bush administration, in a weakened state politically, ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next adminsitration, whether it's my administration or Senator McCain's administration. The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that's currently made." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75438 For those who may not be familiar with the Logan Act: "The Logan Act makes it a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to three years for any American, "without authority of the United States," to communicate with a foreign government in an effort to influence that government's behavior on any "disputes or controversies with the United States." Some background on this statute helps to understand why Ms. Pelosi may be in serious trouble.... On Jan. 16, 1799, Rep. Isaac Parker of Massachusetts explained, "the people of the United States have given to the executive department the power to negotiate with foreign governments, and to carry on all foreign relations, and that it is therefore an usurpation of that power for an individual to undertake to correspond with any foreign power on any dispute between the two governments, or for any state government, or any other department of the general government, to do it." http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009908 Ah yes, the financials crisis, and the dim effort to extricate herself from any responsibility as presented by the third in line from the helm, Mdm. Pelosi. The only winners from the Fannie/Freddie part of the domino downfall are the Democrat 'fatcats': Franklin Raines (Clinton White House Budget director), Jamie Gorelick (the brains behind Clinton A.G., Janet Reno during her reign as the 'top cop' AND the current legal counsel for Fannie Mae) and Jim Johnson (part of Obama's Veep Search commmittee, Fannie Mae chair, and let's not forget his resignation from Obama's veep team because of his ties as a lobbyist who received under-market mortgage loans from Countrywide. Grrr, this guy's waist deep in the 'sub-prime' meltdown) "Obama had been under fire for his association with Johnson after the Wall Street Journal reported over the weekend that Johnson had received $7 million in loans for mortgages with rates below market averages from a special account controlled by the CEO of Countrywide Financial Corp., Angelo Mozilo" http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=5047811 "Former Fannie Mae executive Jim Johnson, who was a leader of the vice presidential search committee for presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama, resigned from that unpaid position today amid criticisms that Johnson represented a world of influence and special interests that stood in stark contrast with what Obama's campaign purports to stand for." http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=5047811 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2083615/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1310839/posts Does anyone still believe the Team Obama rhetoric that Sen. Obama is an "agent of change"??? I've got to give Sen. Obama credit for one thing. He hasn't been on the political scene for but a few years, yet he's this deeply entangled with the filthy, 'inside world' of crooked, self-serving politicos. Wow! How do any of these people sleep at night???
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 08
The photo of John McCain as the 'Blood Thirsty War Monger' is particularily offensive to me. I have had many friends who were professional soldiers who served in the Vietnam War. I once was an Infantry Officer, myself. Neither I or my collegues were "Blood Thirsty". When you are in the front ranks of those who must go to fight, you are not eager for a war to start. You will go if it is necessary, but "Blood Thirsty" ? Hardly. Besides that, believe it or not, any officer that showed such inclinations would be shown the door.
2 people like this
• United States
15 Sep 08
redyellowblackdog, thank you for your service and sacrifice!
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Red, I have to admit that when I scrolled down and spotted that awful photo I was both shocked and repulsed. My first thought was" What if young children gain access to the image? It's one thing to create 'make believe' images for "The Crypt Keeper". It's quite another to exert that kind of twisted angst onto a living, breathing Human Being. One who is positioned to access millions of America's youth on a daily basis, through t.v. media. If this were to ever get out into the mainstream, I wouldn't want to have to be the one to explore the possible ramifications. Thank you for showing us a different angle to this reprehensible act. Will our Veterans personalize this viscious, psychotic attack on one of their own? It certainly isn't difficult to image that our Vet's might do just that. Our soldiers who served in Viet Nam absolutely can relate to the misappropriated term 'war mongerer'. How many of our Vets suffered from P.T.S.D. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? And, how might this kind of an attack against military service affect them? Yeah, it's been forty years. Though some mental images never go away. Will this be such an image? It also makes me wonder if any Veterans or Veterans Group will sue the artist for intentional infliction of emotional damage. It would seem that the artist has indeed gone too far, eh?
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Red, If I may, I'd also like to thank you for reminding us all that no one abhors war more than the men and women who fight it. Because you are a Veteran, (Thank you!) you have the credibility to speak to the heart of the soldier -- before, during, and after the conflict has ended. I've never known a soldier who looked forward to leaving family, friends, and all that is cherished to head off to a war-torn pit, half-way around the globe. And, quite frankly, I find it presumptuous and reprehensible for anyone who has not put life and limb on the line, in the name of duty, to speak for or label those who have. So, I guess that's a question that I would like this artist to answer: What qualifies her to define any U.S. soldier as a "war-mongerer"?
1 person likes this
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
16 Sep 08
I'd have to say that because the pictures are lies and disgusting, she did go too far. I'm wondering if republicans have minds as filthy as hers. I've not seen nor heard that they are, but I don't go looking.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello Bestboy19, First, please allow me to also welcome you to MyLot. As I expressed to the other new members in this thread, I hope that you sincerely enjoy your time here. It's a great community, so I'm sure that you'll find your niché here. To your response, I agree that the photographer stepped way over the line of decency. I'll also add that I'm not sure that it's fair to assign this photographers insanity to any poltical party. While she has gotten support from members of a particular political party, I still question whether that should reflect on that political party, or on the individuals who hold such a skewed perspective of acceptable norms. Still, your question brings us back to the issue of if and when the current leadership of that particular political party will publicly condemn this kind of extreme activism. If they (Dean, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Jackson & Sharpton) don't, then I believe it becomes a fair criticism of the party itself. Only time will tell, eh?
1 person likes this
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Thanks for the welcome and you're right, time will tell.
2 people like this
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
15 Sep 08
I really have to agree with response eight, I'm sorry I couldn't even bring myself to read it because I was just very repulsed by this (probably some of the reason I can't listen to screamer shock jocks). There are crazies on both sides of the political spectrum and this would really be classed as a crazy leftie by my opinion.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello ZephyrSun, I AM sorry that it it taking me this long to keep up with this, or any discussion. When I intiated this discussion I anticipated that I'd have sufficient free time (this week) to interract with all of the respondents. Alas, life sometimes has a way of throwing us a curve-ball or two. Anyway, I find your non-partisan assessment very refreshing. Thank you!!!
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
17 Sep 08
I have forgotten about this discussion. I think maybe it was a try to forget it thing lol. I'm sorry no matter how much I dislike McCain's policies as well as his current political views, it's just gross. Yes the children thing is bad too but, both just shouldn't be considered "art" or anything else.
1 person likes this
• United States
16 Sep 08
wtf is wrong with that woman?? HOW the hell can making a child cry and then tagging the photo with your own political "zealotry" be considered ART at all?? i know pretty much nothing about art, but that sure as hell ISNT art..its just that sad excuse for a woman trying to shove her political views up our noses via the innocent and immediate attention grabbing response that an upset child does for most ppl! personally i dont see how that magazine could possibly have NOT known her previous forms of "art"(and i use that term in a most derogatory manner possible)?? in fact in that article they have her quoted as saying that Child models are CHEAPER than a monkey and that she used the same lighting setup for shoot the kids as she did a monkey...i find that rather insulting, and im not one of those parents. speaking of parents..why the hell did those parents STEP OUT OF THE ROOM and leave their toddler ALONE with her??? even if they didnt hear the child crying, i sure as hell wouldnt just be leaving my kid alone with ANYBODY!!
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello CinderInMySoul, Your quote below is spoken like a real Mom or Dad. Yes, an upset child, and particularly the act of upsetting an innocent does attract and hone our parental instincts. " ... immediate attention grabbing response that an upset child does for most ppl." So, thank you for raising one of the most relevant questions of all: Why would a parent step out of a room, thereby leaving their child with a stranger? If we stretch that line of responsible thinking, then it becomes fair to ask why the Atlantic Monthly hired this photographer in the first place. She did have a verifiable mark on her reputation for placing personal before professional, which brings into question her commitment professionalism. Your very important point pierces the heart of this fandango: Why don't people think before they act???
@gewcew23 (8011)
• United States
19 Sep 08
I know that I am late, but I am always fashionably late. I really do not know what that means, but it sounded fit for the occasion. So John McCain is a bloodthirsty warmongerer. What is a warmongerer? I thought it was warmonger but who am I to say. Well as long as that blood is from a pinko, a commie, or a terrorist I really do not see what the problem is. You imagine the fear in the heart of our enemy if we had that guy as our President. I think even Putin would wet his pants if he had a negotiate with the new and improved John McCain. See it is all about turning a negative into a positive. To call Jill Greenberg a deranged lunatic is a put down to the whole deranged lunatic community. I actually would call Jill is just non compos mentis, a little Latin folk so Obama is not embarrassed at me. Maybe she needs to be fitted for a stray jacket and make a reservation at a mental hospital.
2 people like this
@Guardian208 (1095)
• United States
15 Sep 08
I have a bit of an internal conflict about this. While I find those images truly offensive, she is certainly within her rights as an American to produce and display them. My concern is that she took those pictures while being paid by the magazine to shoot pictures of McCain for their use, NOT her own personal use. Those pictures, while within her rights to display, are an insult to our armed forces. She should have to face consequences for her behavior. Unfortunately that will never happen. She is the darling of Hollywood and she has built her career on these types of offensive photos. I fear she will gain even greater esteem among her fans.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Greetings Guardian, You definitely speak to our greater conundrum. Our unalienable rights as outlined by our Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as a soldiers selfless choice to defend and protect those rights and freedoms, at all cost. This photographer equates our uniformed men and women to war-mongerers. Yet, who is it that is revealed as truly heinous?
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 08
"speak to the greater conundrum..." Now that's a great turn of a phrase! ;)
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Actually this was not within her rights. She signed a contract to do these photos specifically for the Atlantic Magazine and they own the rights to this work. Reproducing or altering their copyrighted material is forbidden which is precisely why they are suing her.
2 people like this
• United States
15 Sep 08
The Atlantic did this on purpose. Any photo editor who does not know Greenberg and her liberal views and her outrageous "art" doesn't deserve to work in the industry. She is very well known. If she will purposely make children cry for political purposes then they had to know what she would do with a chance to photograph McCain. This is how the left works. They put this kind of garbage out, then they offer an "apology" or give some free issues to make up for it. But the damage is already done. Their objective is accomplished. The biggest problem I have with Greenberg is that she really is a talented photographer. She just chooses to use that talent in the most perverted ways. This link includes her client list. I use several of these products and I plan to call them and voice my opinion of their hiring this woman in the future. http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/bad_americans/the_atlantic_mo.php I have just sent the following message to theatlantic.com "I think that your hiring of Greenberg to photograph McCain is appalling. I also believe it was done on purpose. I don't know who your photo editor is but if he/she did not know about Greenberg's reputation they should not be working in the industry, And should be fired immediately. Your apology is hollow and meaningless without this action."
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 08
You can also call Katie Cristol Director, Public Relations Phone: (202) 266-7164 You may want to wait until tomorrow though. She isn't in a very good mood today.LOL
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Morethanamolehill, It's nice to visit with you again! Words cannot express how much I appreciate your response. You've demonstrated true civic responsibility here. You didn't just talk the talk. Instead you have walked the walk. In your action here today, you have proved yourself to be apathy's great foe. Please allow me to thank you for not only calling the periodical to task for either their incompetence, or their skullduggery in plotting a transgression with a well-rehearsed apology printed on their shirt sleeve. Rest assured, I will be following your lead tomorrow. Thanks to your willingness to provide the rest of us with a name and phone number. I can only hope that you are applying that same sense of leadership elsewhere in your world. Keep it up, will you please?
• United States
16 Sep 08
Thanks Ladyluna for your kind words. I must admit it's not so much civic responsibility as just that I love harassing Liberals.XD No not really,they just hang up on you if you do that anyway. But I do have Nana Pelosi's Office number on my speed dial. I really do want to live in a country where it's not necessary to call these people but unfortunately that world isn't here yet. I hope you saw the Beautiful Full Moon that rose tonite. I was out Photographing the sunset and went the grocery store when I saw it about three fingers from the horizon. I couldn't find a good spot to shoot from but I know where I will be tomorrow nite at sunset. Facing the other way!
1 person likes this
@drannhh (15226)
• United States
16 Sep 08
The central issue for me is why a person who probably thinks she fits into the category "human being" would feel it proper to attempt to raise herself up by putting other people down in such puerile fashion. It goes beyond just civility. It is a symptom of that which is often referred to as the "moral decay of society." Oh, and no, it is NOT art.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Hello Drannhh, Thank you for sharing your opinion on this matter. Since you are an artist, and I believe a gifted one, then my perspective is that your opinion is weighted on this matter. I agree that above her failure to demonstrate professionalism, she also made the choice to serve her self at the direct expense of another. She made a conscious, hurtfull attack on someone for the value that the shock would serve her reputation, and/or wallet. Isn't that exactly the charge that is levied against big business by the radical left? Hmmm???
@cbreeze (1207)
• United States
15 Sep 08
After going to this site, I remember this photographer. Before even addressing the defacing of McCain's photo, I thought she was derainged for her depiction of tormented babies as art. One word "DISGUSTING".
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Cbreeze, Ah, so you remember this photographer from her terrorizing children days, eh? Well, that's certainly a mixed blessing. You get an A+ for your memory, yet you've had to carry around an awareness of this despicable Human Being. I couldn't agree more -- absolutely disgusting!
@spalladino (17925)
• United States
15 Sep 08
It looks like she's the equivalent of a shock jock with a camera instead of a microphone. I found her *art* disgusting and sincerely hope that she and the magazine that hired her are sued. I really do believe, after viewing both John McCain and the children's photos, that this woman has deep psychological problems and obviously no compassion for the feelings of anyone.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello Spalladino, What a fitting analogy -- a shock photographer. I agree on all counts with your response. What is as troubling as the fact that this 'art' was ever created is the possibility that some one, some organization or group might pay her for this 'artistry'. That would serve to perpetuate this deranged style of 'shock art', which we all know has too much exposure as it is. To say nothing of the question of who ultimately pays for this insanity? I'm reminded of the elephant dung Virgin Mary, the urine/Christ on the Cross, the recent miscarriage art from a Yale University student art show, and I cannot help but wonder: If the Atlantic paid for the shoot, and the photographer kept the photos not used, and has adapted and posted them, then what happens if some university or activist organization buys the photo(s) to display? Doesn't that mean that ultimately this twisted woman's 'art' might also be paid for by the American Taxpayer? Grrrr!!!
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
15 Sep 08
I have been trying as of late to stay impartial here and call out both sides on things like lies, rumors, slander or just out right trash. I debated responding in this particular thread as I have not been able to find Mrs Greenburges blogs. I finaly decided however that it was worth posting in the interests I have been trying to serve lately. So, to wit, My thoughts on her "art" and it's motive. Filth. Sewage Garbage Sludge It is exactly the kind of thing I have been rallying against lately. And I chastise the Atlantic as well for this. Here is her website: http://www.manipulator.com/ The front page makes no bones about her feelings. I understand the photo rotates upon refresh but I have not been able to make it do that.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Sep 08
Hello X, I was gone for a while, but upon my return I have definitely noticed your increased effort to present an even more reasoned, more balanced tone to your contributions here. Thank you! I believe that's an effort that serves us well; both the individual and society as a whole. I absolutely agree with your critique of her 'art'. I'll also add that I didn't provide any access to the photographers website, so as to insure that I didn't unwittingly contribute to her financial gain -- in the event that she makes any revenue from traffic flow to her site. It is my fondest hope that society's reaction will be such that she'll be relegated to complete artistic obscurity in the very near future. As such, I would remind folks that curiosity killed the cat! Meaning that, whether we like it or not, whether we intend for it or not, there are always ramifications to our actions.
@Hatley (164654)
• Garden Grove, California
16 Sep 08
ladyluna Ithink Jill went too far with the children and also give her kudos for her portrait showing McCain for what he really is, he wants to keepthe war going in iraq forever if need be. it is not his butt that is on the front line getting shot at and sometimes killed. its not his family at home to grieve over the loss of a husband and father. easy to push war from the white house. Now manipulating little kids is criminal and they could be warped for along time from all her shennanigans. shame on her.
• United States
16 Sep 08
McCain may not have his "butt on the line", as you say, right now, but my husband DOES.....and has for over 15 years now througout his active duty service. He has fought in Iraq on 2 seperate tours (one being 12 months and the last being 15 months). I was that wife, who worried day in and day out for his safety. I was a wife who mourned the deaths of his comrades and tried to comfort wives and their families while grieving. Thankfully, my husband wasn't injured or killed, but I can assure you that we wouldn't be blaming the President or any other sources if he had been. He would be proud to say that he served his country....either way. Contrary to popular belief, Soldiers don't spend their time whining and trying to get out of the very tasks they signed up for. That would be what us civilians do best (which is why we aren't soldiers in the first place). Because of the stand (and "push") that was made from the White House, we have been able to live 7 more years of freedom and NO ATTACKS since 9/11. That didn't just happen.....We let them know that there would be consequences to pay if they messed with us ever again. Let's think about those families, husbands, wives and children who lost loved ones on 9/11. They DIDN'T sign up to sacrifice their lives. If you had lost a loved one on that day, you probably wouldn't feel that going to Iraq was a mistake. If you haven't already, go watch the "Dear Obama" video at youtube.com. See what a soldiers' feels who KNOWS. Just a question for anyone....who is the blame going to fall on if the Troops are abruptly removed from Iraq without a strategic plan and we are attacked again because of leaving a job undone?
1 person likes this
@clrumfelt (5424)
• United States
22 Sep 08
Jill Greenberg is one sick puppy. I hope the magazine sues her for what she did and that every conservative boycotts her business after this. She defended herself for the horrid photography: “It’s definitely exciting to shoot someone who is in the limelight like that. I am a pretty hard core Democrat. Some of my artwork has been pretty anti-Bush, so maybe it was somewhat irresponsible for them [The Atlantic] to hire me.” ..... and maybe it was just plain indefensible for her to take advantage of them the way she did. Surely there will be some unpleasant repercussions for her.