Is this Capitalism, or Socialism?

United States
September 21, 2008 9:27pm CST
With the American taxpayers bailling out corporations that were making billions in profits a year ago, we have to wonder what kind of economy we have. This is socialism at it's worse, and the sad part is we are told that we have no other option but to do this, or our economy would collapse. Do you really think that our economy would collapse, or is this all just an excuse to bail out companies that have lavish our elected officals with hundreds of millions of dollars, and they are cashing in all of those IOU's?
6 people like this
9 responses
@Snooze (610)
• United States
22 Sep 08
My sense on all this is that Bush and Paulson, etc., knew about the situation for at least a half year. How could they not know? Bush was probably hoping against hope he could make it to January before the gauntlet dropped - the new president would be blamed for the depression based on the way he reacted to the crisis. Unfortunately (for Bush anyway), the crisis hit sooner rather than later. Here's the other thing that has me angry: the Bush administration's history of completely misinterpreting AND mishandling of crisis. The war in Iraq, we'll be treated as liberators, the oil in Iraq will pay for the war, the war will only cost $50 billion. Then Katrina. We're being told $700 billion will take care of the illiquid assets. That's on top of another $500 billion or so we've already chunked at AIG, the tax stimulus checks, and other bailouts. Here's the trillion dollar question: do you really believe $700 billion will take care of the problem? I don't. It's nothing more than a band-aid. It's only the beginning. We're still going to go through a strong recession if not a depression. The only difference is that we're going to sink into it rather than splash into it. What do you think?
3 people like this
@phoenix25 (1543)
• United States
22 Sep 08
What really gets me is that not two weeks ago, Paulson was saying that people shouldn't worry and that Americans should have confidence in the American financial system. Yesterday, an article I read stated that Paulson is now pushing for relief funding to bail out these companies. What a quick turn around! What kills me is that our response to this problem that has been stewing for years is, "Throw money at it!" I don't think throwing money at this problem is going to be a particularly good solution.
1 person likes this
@underdogtoo (9599)
• Philippines
22 Sep 08
Socialism would bail out people, society. Capitalism bails out capitalists, corporations. It seems that people don't matter in Capitalism but corporations rate higher than people.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
22 Sep 08
This is the Republican game: privatize the gains, socialize the losses. See, Republicans really do like socialism...but only when they're running out on the bill. Otherwise they're more than happy to let the CEO get absurdly rich before his unregulated company goes down the toilet. Just look at Carly Fiorina--she brought HP's shares from $60 to $20, and she's allowed to walk away with millions of dollars in a severance package.
2 people like this
@goldeneagle (6775)
• United States
22 Sep 08
I feel that a vote for Obama in this election, a vote for the democratic party, will be a vote for socialism in our country. I am not saying to vote for McCain. I am just saying that the democrats are wanting to set up government organizations to manage big industries. This is the very definition of socialism. This is not a matter of voting for white or black, democrat or republican...this is ultimately a matter of voting for capitalism or socialism. I don't think any of us need any proof of what can happen when government gets involved in our lives. One only needs to look as far as the Hurricane Katrina aftermath to find out how much the government can screw things up. ENTIRE LOADS of relief supplies were LOST. Half of the money meant to go to relief for the victims of the storm was unaccounted for in the end...no doubt making its way into other programs, or the pockets of the politicians themselves. Do we really want these people managing our big businesses? Do people realize how much money it will cost taxpayers to set up these organizations? This is a major issue that we really need to consider before we vote in the upcoming election. Obama is going to be pushing, backed by the democratic party, to implement these organizations. Capitalism is one of the things that has made this country great. These organizations will negate everything our nation has been based upon. The costs of setting up these organizations will be passed on to the taxpayer. This will definitely be the start of socialism in our country. This will be the beginning of the end of America as we know it. If the government is allowed to take over one area of the economy, such as the mortgage business, what is going to stop them from taking over other areas, such as the flailing airline industry? Before long, we could be living in a country much like the Soviet Union...a place where the government controls almost every aspect of public life... A democratic vote in this election will be a vote for socialism. If the democrats have their way, government will start to control one area of our lives, then slowly take over other areas as well...all in the name of "saving industry". Think long and hard before you vote on election day...
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
22 Sep 08
Obama believes in wealth redistribution. How is that NOT socialist? He wants to steal from the rich and give to the poor. Biden's even gone so far as to say it's patriotic for the rich to pay more taxes. That it socialism at its finest.
1 person likes this
@evanslf (485)
22 Sep 08
Yes, it is true that Obama believes in redistribution of wealth as he is proposing to tax the richest more and give tax cut to those lower down the income scale. However, that does not mean he is socialist, but it does mean that he is social democratic. A communist does not believe in capitalism and wants to overthrow the capitalist society by force / revolution. The workers then all collectively own assets and profit is abolished. A socialist, like a communist, also does not believe in capitalism and seeks to replace it by a socialist model where workers own the means or production and where profit is no longer part of society. The central difference between communists and socialists is that the former believe in violent revolution to achieve their goals whilst the socialists will seek to operate democratically and gradually to achieve their aims. Socialists, like communists will also believe in the redistribution of wealth from the rich to the workers. But the key point for both communists and socialists is the abolishing of capitalism and profit. There is no mixed economy as capitalism would be abolished and everything owned by the State on behalf of the workers (proletariat). Now social democrats are different in that they do not seek to overthrow the capitalist model. They believe in the mixed economy where social ownership and the market can operate side by side. Social democrats seek to operate within capitalism and will try to improve its harsh disparities. So social democrats (like socialists) will be in favour of a welfare state and will look to redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the poor to achieve, like the socialists, a more equal society. But the key is that socialists still believe in the capitalist model, only with social reforms to make it fairer by reducing poverty and reducing inequality. Obama and Democrats do not seek to abolish capitalism, but do seek redistribution of wealth and other measures to reduce inequality. They are therefore social democrats, though by European standards, they would be seen as center-right conservatives as in many aspects, Democrats are to the right of most social democratic parties in the world.
1 person likes this
@phoenix25 (1543)
• United States
22 Sep 08
This isn't socialism at its worst. What's going on now is actually an example of how capitalism doesn't work. The fact that the government is having to bail out wall street and mortgage companies is a perfect example of capitalism.
• China
22 Sep 08
it is interesting your goverment like socialism, which intervene too much. but we are socialism, but the goverment like capitalism, they care for nothing. nothing for the education, nothing for the house so high price , nothing about society benefit , which care about how to collect tax.
1 person likes this
@rsa101 (15496)
• Quezon City, Philippines
22 Sep 08
Well I guess its capitalism that is working on. I really think that this company has made a big impact on your economy and I really feel that many will suffer not only those that have their investments in that company but also will trigger a worldwide problem if not given a chance to cope with their monetary problems. If your government will not interfere a much worse scenario may happen as everything is connected in economy from private people's money to taxpayers money. If there is no balance between the two both will collapse in time.
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6999)
• United States
23 Sep 08
The economy had better chances without this whole bail out plan. Like I've said, the economy can weather losing banks, companies...but it can't lose the people or their money, which ultimately, giving the people a debt they may not pay off for generations and risking destroying the nation's currency (which is what this is doing)... It's the ultimate high stakes game. I've heard it described as russian roulette. I believe they are using this crisis as an excuse for one last laugh, though. And it's criminal. Some of them might honestly believe that this huge risk they're trading for just a little more time to try to reverse the worst of it, is necessary...but largely...this is the most stupid thing EVER. Bar none, of all the stupid things ever done in this country, this absolutely takes the cake. And according to recent polls, most of the people in this country agree. This increases the chances the economy will collapse. In fact, actually, the odds are so bad that it's almost absolutely certain if they go through with this, which they will barring a miracle.
• United States
23 Sep 08
Argh, I got so upset I didn't answer your question and here it is: Capitalism got infected with greed and criminal crap, therefore it failed...unfortunately. However, this solution IS the darker side of socialism, which of course tells us that while some of these methods CAN be good sometimes, largely it takes wisdom and balance. Something neither the market NOR the government has much of, these days...or well, over the past decade apparently, considering how much time this problem needed to incubate, hatch, and grow.
@jend80 (2068)
23 Sep 08
Capitalism got infected by greed? you mean there's a version of capitalism that doesn't purely exist to make as much money as posible for the people at the top at the expence of everybody else?
• United States
23 Sep 08
=) I didn't say it fought the infection.
• United States
22 Sep 08
This is most certainly socialism, these people are being rewarded for their failure, and I do not like that at all. Why should we taxpayers have to pay for a companies failure? We should not have to.
@jend80 (2068)
23 Sep 08
socialism is paying companies for their falure - now dear that's capitalism