God and Jesus were 2 not 1 and yes I have scripture. Let the rock throwing begin
October 5, 2008 2:15pm CST
I really think people sell themselves short when they say that Jesus was God in human form. One it means you can never be as good as God wants you to be because you are going to believe that you can never rise to the measure that your suppose to in being an overcomer and of the true vine. How can he sit beside himself? But if this conversation hasn't earned me enough minuses let me add this also no where in the bible does it say the word trinity. I believe they are two not one or three. I also believe that the seven pillars spoke of by the house wisdom built as being the church that is built on the foundation of God, Jesus and the 5 offices of the ministry that makes 7 if you are counting. I also believe that you need the holy spirit in your life and that its something that is for the modern church. Water baptism is one step the gift of the holy ghost is another until we go on to perfection. Jesus may have died for us but he went away so the comforter would come and that comforter is the spirit of God. So go ahead and start grabbing those stones its not the first beating I have taken although it might be the one most worth it.
3 people like this
• United States
5 Oct 08
I don't think God expects us to be perfect. He KNOWS we can't be perfect because we are human. But He does expect us to do our best to avoid sin, to ask for his strength to resist to temptation, and to ask forgiveness when we fail. Any Christian who tells you he is perfect and never sins is either lying to you or is fooling himself. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God." (Romans 3:23) I have heard the Trinity explained this way: Just as water has three forms (ice, liquid water, and steam) the Trinity has three forms (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit). The word Trinity is not in the Bible, but it is implied. I have no difficulty accepting this concept, although I don't totally understand it. That's the problem with Christianity, most people say "I'd believe if I could understand." Well, they're going about it all wrong. With belief comes understanding, although no mortal man will ever understand everything God is up to.
6 Oct 08
Ingersoll probably summarized the Trinitarian enigma as well as anyone when he said, Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third. Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition addition is equally peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity." (Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67).
• United States
6 Oct 08
In the Old Testament, it says that "my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways. (Isaiah 55:8) And in Isaiah chapeter 9 it says that Jesus would be called "God" - the Everlasting Father" and you can read on for his other descriptive offices and or titles. In John chapter 1 - it says that Jesus was in the beginning "with God" and that he (Jesus) created all things. John 8:58 Jesus referred to himself as "I AM" which is the name of God who spoke to Moses, when Moses asked him:"who shall I say has sent me? And, of course - if one wants to get into some intriguing thinking, check out Revelation 3:1 The natural mind does not receive the things of God for they are foolisness to him This could go on and on, and I just wanted to add a comment. Have a blessed week, coming up.
• United States
7 Oct 08
I'm with you! I'm always a bit dumb founded when someone claims that the Father and Son are one and the same, and they are only one. Now I believe we can say they are one, like a husband and wife are called one.. or a family.. And the Son, being the "firstborn of all creation" is the "only begotten Son of God" that is to say, He is the only 'straight-out-from-God one.. so is forever closest and is of the same essence as his Father. And in this way they are one, but the Father did not leave the throne and come to earth, he sent his most valuable one.. his son, making a statement to man of the biggest impact possible. To me in the animal kingdom there are many, but in the God Kingdom, there are two.. I am also not in total agreement with the thought that they are only two.. and aren't in a sense also one.. But let's face it (stones be danged!) Jesus was not praying to himself, when he said "Father..." He also told his disciples, "I am going to my Father and your Father.." Does that mean I'm God! I'm the Father! Of course not. We are ll individuals which God has made, beginning with the Son who is "the decree" of psalm 2. - I agree the word trinity is no where in the bible.. and the one verse which is quoted to support it says something like "the witness, the water and the blood are one (as to agreement, I would take it) and these three agree".. There was actually war fought over this doctrinal dispute! But I find no support for it to begin with! I do however think that the Father and Son are so close, they both are able to administer the Holy Spirit.. but that Spirit is the spirit and presence of the Father.. who as you said, Jesus left, that we may have it to fill, guide, comfort and teach us.. Of which our heart saying "Father!" is the seal of that Spirit, guaranteeing we are his and shall receive all that is promised.. His Presence..
• United States
8 Oct 08
It boils down to someone they trusted told them and they never clearly looked at it themselves in my opinion. A lot of people use the I am my father are one as meaning they are the same person, in my opinion its like you said one as in husband wife kind of thing, one in spirit, one in purpose. Thanks for the reply.
8 Oct 08
You are correct to say that jesus is another entity.The father is not the son,the bible is very clear about this. If you want to present that god is one,it is also correct because the bible says so . If you claim that god is three,no problem,the bible support this one too. As long as you believe that the bible is the word of god,you can choose how many gods you want to believe.
• United States
9 Oct 08
My bible seems quite clear to me. Also it tells me there is one law - Love. Period. so even if human beings get things wrong, know what? I still love 'em! Even intolerant ones who try to belittle and undermine other's beliefs.. I have no doubt truth will stand in the end and God is way more powerful than to need people to dispute over it.. or heaven forbid make wars, be they large or small. blessings!
9 Oct 08
Trinity is one of the most intriguing subjects in Christian Faith, I think there are some things that will be revealed only in Eternity and we now will not understand all of God's work. Since Childhood, Trinity was explained to me to that of water, that water in Vapor form, Liquid form or in form of Ice is still water. So God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct individuals but are the same.
6 Oct 08
Besides numerous statements asserting the unity, the indivisibility of God, the Bible also provides additional information in opposition to the Trinity. First, Gen. 6:3 states God would never become flesh. Jews interpret the verse as saying, "My spirit shall never more abide in man, since he too is flesh." But, if Jesus was God and man simultaneously, then divinity would have rested in a man, i.e., flesh. Second, 2 Chron. 6:18 and 1Kings 8:27 state God (i.e. Jesus) would never dwell on earth. Third, although called God by others, Jesus never directly said he was God. According to one Christian denomination called a cult, Satan, too, was called God (2 Cor. 4:4). Fourth, if the Holy Ghost was a person, as Trinitarians allege, then how could he have filled 120 people simultaneously (acts 2)? Fifth, how could the Son, who is God eternal, be equal in age to the Father who is God Eternal? By definition, a son must be younger than the father; in which case they can't be equal. Sixth, how could Jesus be God, i.e. eternal, when several verses show he was created at a particular point in time: Rev. 3:14, Prov. 8:22-23 RSV, Col. 1:15 RSV. And lastly, if Jesus and the Holy Ghost are God, if the Trinity is valid, then Jesus' relationship to Mary is utterly paradoxical: (1) If he was born of Mary, she was his mother; (2) She "being with child by the Holy Ghost," and Father, Son and Holy Ghost being one, # she was his wife; (3) God, being the Father of all mankind, and God and Christ being one, she was his daughter; (4) She, being the daughter of God, and Jesus being the Son of God, she was his sister.