Abortion-I"m playing devils advocate

@cyntrow (8524)
United States
October 7, 2008 1:35pm CST
This is a curiosity discussion and nothing more. I am completely pro choice. I believe in a woman's right to choose whether to carry a pregancy to term. I couldn't abort myself, but that was my choice. I was faced with 3 unexpected pregancies. 1 ended in miscarrage and the other two were my first and last babies. I'm glad that the choice was mine. Here is the question: Can you give me a reason against abortion that does not involve religion? Most of the discussions that I have seen where abortion is in question involves God creating the "life" inside of the woman and thereby, it must be seen to fruition. Tell me if you have an arugement against abortion that does not involve religion. Thanks.
8 people like this
14 responses
• United States
8 Oct 08
I believe that life starts at conception. My belief that life starts at conception has nothing to do with rather God creates the life or not, especially since I am no longer sure what I believe when it comes to God anymore, I just strongly believe that life starts at conception. I also believe that it is wrong to take a human life, one does not need to believe in religion or God to believe that, even most atheist believe that it is wrong to kill another person. That is why I am mostly pro-life. (I do not have a problem with abortion when it is medically necessary to save the mothers life. When it comes to rape...all I will say is, my personal experience, many years ago I was raped and did get pregnant. My personal choice was to have the baby and give him up for adoption which was prearranged so I knew he would get a home. I made this choice because while I could not see being able to raise this child myself due to the circumstances, I also did not feel right about aborting/taking the life of an innocent baby who was not the one who raped me. To this day I do not regret that decision nor have I been traumatized or haunted my entire life by it. I realize that the decision that I made in that regard is not an easy one, therefore I would not condemn a woman who got an abortion from a rape, but I can not honestly say that I would agree with her decision either. I am not sure how I feel about abortion when it comes to incest because I've never thought much on the matter. I am totally against abortion in all other cases, this is why I say that I am mostly pro-life.)
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
I believe that life starts at viability. The cluster of cells that was flushed down my toilet was not a baby.
• United States
10 Oct 08
I agree with Cyn, life start at viability to me as well. a cluster of cells can not live on it own it is not yet a baby in my opinion.
• United States
10 Oct 08
A "cluster of cells" may not exactly be a baby, but they are human cells and they are growing and developing cells, hence, they are living cells. So I still feel that life starts at conception. That is my belief, you are of course, entitled to yours.
1 person likes this
@reneca (3)
• United States
7 Oct 08
One of the things that is so detestable about abortion is the intense suffering it causes for the baby. It is literally dismembered. This is an unconscionable act that unfortunately most women do not realize when they go in for an abortion. Clinics will do everything in their power to keep the TRUTH from these women and keep them ignorant. That's why they resist full disclosure and are against ultrasounds. Sadly, when women do find out what they have done, it can lead to guilt and depression. All around, it is degrading and benefits MEN more than anyone else.
1 person likes this
@redchase (347)
8 Oct 08
that last statement is something that caught me a little off. you know, sometimes women are the ones who dont want kids and men are left to suffer. i know because this just happened to a friend of mine. his wife aborted twice, and she went on with life like normal and he fell into depression. he was so upset. i dont think its right to say that it benefits men more than anyone else. i think it benefits the person that makes the choice, be it a parent, the person who's pregnant or the father of the child.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
Reneca, it does not benefit MEN. Roe V Wade was passed in spite of men. Women were told that if inpregnated, they had to go through all of the horrors of pregancy and they had no say. Forced adoption was cool, but chosen abortion was not. 25 years ago, when my mother wanted to get her tubes tied, my father had to agree to it. He was pissed. Of course she also was. It's her body. In the beginning stages of pregnancy, it is not a baby. It's a parasite. Once we choose to carry the pregnancy, it becomes a baby. When most abortions occur, there is no pain or understanding from the fetus. You are obviously believing propoganda. And your propoganda is probably from a religious source. Give me a logical reason without religion
@urbandekay (18312)
20 Oct 08
Their is nothing in her post to indicate her beliefs, mistaken though they are, are from a religious source. all the best urban
@CanadaGal (4304)
• Canada
8 Oct 08
I love this angle to the great abortion debate! I don't think there are many arguments against abortion that aren't religion based. An exception might be the physical trauma the pregnant woman could suffer. If someone were to have numerous abortions, wouldn't it affect her internal anatomy negatively? We're talking about a natural process (miscarrying) being done in an unnatural fashion (vaccuum)... that's gotta do a number on the uterus. And if I'm not mistaken, if that woman wanted to eventually have children someday, wouldn't that interfere with the possibility? Of course, that example is based on my presumption of numerous abortions in one uterus. One (or two?) I wouldn't think would be as physically harmful.
1 person likes this
• United States
9 Oct 08
If the abortion is done properly, a women rarely suffers side affects. One of my husband's clients is a nurse at the local abortion clinic and she has told him countless stories of women who get pregnant repeatedly and have an abortion. One such patient had rheumatoid arthritis, and the pregnancy makes her body feel healthy. So she continues to get pregnant and is probably on her 40th abortion. I'm pro choice, but I believe abortions of that nature should be illegal. It's just sick.
@Ravenladyj (22937)
• United States
9 Oct 08
One such patient had rheumatoid arthritis, and the pregnancy makes her body feel healthy. So she continues to get pregnant and is probably on her 40th abortion What??? Really??? wow that is just weird..and frankly I find it very disturbing..I mean as much as i feel her pain and understand her need to feel healthy what she is doing is FAR FROM healthy and I'm surprised they (the clinic, doctor etc etc) keep allowing her to do it in all honesty....
• Australia
30 Oct 08
I am pro-choice. I believe there are certain situations where an abortion is perfectly justified, and a lot of other situations where it is not, as many other responders have pointed out, but it is still the woman's choice to make. At least in some places. There are societies where the choice will be made for her, by parents, her husband, or even the state in some rare cases. For example, it is reported that until the Indian government took measures to stop the practice, in the more traditional male-dominant Hindu sects, where male children are so highly prized over female, they were using amnio-centesis to decide whether to abort - one study showed that only 3 of 8000 abortions carried out were of male fetuses. But this is a bit off the subject. In societies like ours where the woman does have the say (at least in theory), I certainly can't find an argument against it that isn't religious, and since I am virulently non-religious, I am perfectly happy with that state of affairs. The only area that I find grey is with those who argue, whether or not on religious or simply moral grounds, that human life starts with impregnation. Like cyntrow, I don't, but I can see how someone who does believe that could object on moral grounds. I am assuming that not all people who do feel that way do so on the grounds that there is a soul to be considered, just a life. But by those lights, abortion could be seen as murder. Perhaps a thread (by someone who knows the biology far better than I) on "When does life start?" might be fruitful. Lash
1 person likes this
@cgobble (171)
• United States
7 Oct 08
You know, I don't really have an argument for either side. I'm a big believer in let people make up their own minds. Just let people do whatever it is they want to do.
1 person likes this
• United States
8 Oct 08
This weird coming from me a pro choice person but what about finances. I mean if she has the child , he/she can grow up and pay into the social security system and support his/her parents.Or having children so they can help out in farming or the family business. Or even having the baby secures your inheritance.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
On the other hand, if the parent cannot afford the child, she will be raised on the taxpayers dime. And what of the abuse that can occur because the mother never wanted the child to begin with. Then we are paying for crappy foster care and an incarcerated mother. Just the other side of the finance coin. LOL
1 person likes this
• United States
10 Oct 08
That's why I say abortions must stay safe and legal.
• United States
11 Oct 08
G-d gave us free will, Big Mistake. He may have thought s*x was Just for the making of children but we have made it just for fun.
1 person likes this
@maximax8 (28490)
• United Kingdom
8 Oct 08
I am a mother of a teenager and a toddler. During my two pregnancies I had ultrasounds. I saw the detail of my children and it looked amazing to me. I went home and followed their development week by week. A surprise pregnancy is not expected so it can shock a lady. If someone is having the sort of relationship that could resort in pregnancy they must be careful if they do not wish to get pregnant. If they do then they will have to choose to keep the baby, abort or adopt. A baby growing inside her mother's womb should be safe. If a surgeon aborts her she will die. Everyone that is born is precious in one way or another. Shakespeare was a gifted author and Mozart was an excellent in the field of music. Aborted people are the missing people of the world. Maybe a talented person was aborted one that would have made the world a better place. Someone like Mother Theresa perhaps. I like peace and I hate war. I am against abortion because it is killing an innocent baby that can't even fight back like a soldier could in a war. If I go to Barbados this year and don't go to Costa Rica, Costa Rica will still be there for me to go to next year. But nothing could bring back an aborted baby, no amount of regret.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
ON the other hand, it could be the next ted bundy or charles manson.
@urbandekay (18312)
27 Oct 08
So, Cyntrow you want to play God and decide who has the right to life? all the best urban
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
28 Oct 08
No, I'm not God, obviously. I just do not view a cluster of cells that may become a life over the life of a kid who is stupid and scared.
@sharra1 (6342)
• Australia
13 Oct 08
Yes I can and I am pro choice. Abortion is actually very bad for a woman and having one can actually ruin her chances of ever conceiving again. It is possible that medical science has improved in this area but when you conceive your body locks the fetus into place and to abort one they must force this area open. It was explained to my mother by a doctor that it is like forcing a door and the risk is that it my never be able to close properly again. That is not to say that it can't but it is a risk. Now I am going back a few years here but my mother told me that she inquired about an abortion when she was pregnant with her first child and he is now 61 so medical science may have a better way of doing it now I do not know. However, it would give me great doubts about having an abortion. Much better is to take the pill until you are ready to have children as I think the risk is too hard. I know a woman who had great trouble holding her last baby and spent months in bed after several miscarriages.
• United States
13 Oct 08
Yes, abortion is much, much, much different than it was then. And I don't know where you get the "locked on" thing from. Here's what happens. Every month, you uterus build up extra layers of tissue, this is the bleeding and clotting you experience during a period is the body sloughing the unneeded tissue. When you do get pregnant, a blastocyst attaches to the inside layer of tissue and begins to grow. Where it attaches is where the umbilical cord forms. The fetus is entirely self-contained inside the placenta sac. It causes minimal damage and (if done correctly)no permanent damage to dilate the cervix and flush out the sac and sough the uterine wall.
@sharra1 (6342)
• Australia
13 Oct 08
Ah well I have never bothered to find out more about it and it was my mother's story and so may not have been entirely true. She had a history of lying about some things but I did not think that she lied about that. Oh well. She told me that this was how the doctor explained it to her when he counseled her about it. He described it like a door with a hinges and that when you abort you force this open and so it may not close again. I must admit that I do not know much about anatomy as I have never been interested in it. Maybe the Doctor was anti abortion and was just describing it in a way that ensured that she did not do it. She did not want to abort. She told me the story as an attack on my father as she said that he wanted her to. She was always telling me things against my father.
• United States
13 Oct 08
Well it may have been that way back then, but medical advances have made it much, much safer.
• United States
26 Oct 08
Would you have liked to be sucked out of your mother? I think that would be a no. that is what i am going to say for now.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
29 Oct 08
If I was, I wouldn't know the difference.
@urbandekay (18312)
29 Oct 08
Cyntrow, the question is an existential one; can you will, that instead of living the life you have you were sucked out of your mother? all the best urban
@sid556 (31005)
• United States
11 Oct 08
My views are exactly the same as yours so you'll get no argument from me here. I think you worded this really well and I'll be curious to see the answers! One of my daughters just found herself in an unexpected pregnancy and struggled hard with what to do with it. She is in a tough spot and it isn't a good time at all for her to be pregnant. Knowing how I am, she asked me if I'd be angry with her if she chose abortion. I looked at her and said, " I'd be angry if you made a choice simply to please me!" I refused to give her much input. These things are personal choices and I assured her that I would support her whatever her final decision. She spent a couple of days at my home to sort things out. I watched her struggle with the pros & cons. As it turned out, she miscarried. Abortion is not an easy choice for most women at all. I think most will and do think deeply about such a decision. I know my daughter's life would have been forever changed regardless of what choice she ended up making. Most don't use it as a form of birth control. I think that yes people "should be more careful" etc...but all the "shoulds" in the world are not going to change things. People are going to be careless, women are going to get pregnant even using birth control and abortions are going to take place even if we make them illegal...and thats when things get dangerous. Good post...Cyntrow!
@Ravenladyj (22937)
• United States
11 Oct 08
I think most will and do think deeply about such a decision Very true..I just wish the Pro Lifers would stop and realize that rather than telling those of us who've had to make that hard decision that we are murderers, heartless etc etc..Its NOT an easy choice to make for 8 or 9 out of 10 of us.. I'm also sorry for your daughters loss..EVEN IF she was planning on aborting, its still a very upsetting thing to go through
1 person likes this
@sid556 (31005)
• United States
12 Oct 08
Thanx raven for your kind words. It was a very tough choice for her and I'm glad that in the end it was not one she herself really had to make. It was tough for me to sit back and watch her agonize and know that it was my possible grandchild. It is a very emotional issue. Because of this experience, she told me that she is going to take even further precautions to see that she is NEVER in this spot again. It is very easy for those that have never ever been in these spots to judge. We can all "think" we KNOW what we will feel and do in such situations. but the truth is that until you are faced with such a tough choice, you can't possibly know.
@Margarit (3677)
• Philippines
8 Oct 08
hi cynthrow, I dont know why i cant explain it without mentioning about God because for me life is associated to God for He is the creator of mankind and He is the only one can take that life away. As a human being and a believer, abortion is not the answer to the problem (expect to those especial cases like when a fetus is form inside the fallopian tube which in dangered the mother and the child. Abortion should be done to save the others life or else they both die.) I believe that life has a spirit that separate us from other living creatures, that make as special and unique. And because of this we dont own our life we just borrow it from Him. We are created to be a steward for His other creation not to stop His creation.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
Thenn you cannot answer my question. Thanks anyway
@EvanHunter (4028)
• United States
8 Oct 08
A practical reason to be against abortion is what you are asking for? Here is my reasoning I am glad my mother didn't have one with me, I am pretty sure you are glad your mother didn't have one with you either. That said I am pretty sure a woman who is contemplating abortion and decides against it that her child will be pretty happy she didn't have one either.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
9 Oct 08
If I was aborted I wouldn't know the difference. Futhermore, I think the baby that was microwaved would have been better off aborted. The 2 year old who had a pot of soup poured over her head would have been better off aborted. These are but 2 examples.
@rainmark (4306)
8 Oct 08
Abortion in religious way is prohibited coz it serves as a murder. Killing the fetus or life inside your womb. But in medical ways, people can abort their babies if there's a medical complications. Like it harmful and it's dangerous for the mother to continue her pregnancy. Or if the baby has an abnormality inside the womb. Those only the reason why abortion is legal for medical reasons. Some woman aborted thier baby because they are not yet ready and i think that's a bad idea and i condemn it coz they only thinking there personal side. Not considering the life inside thier womb which needs a chance to live and to be love. Happy posting.
• United States
8 Oct 08
I am pro choice too. I say a pregnant woman doesn't have to have a baby if she doesn't want to. Because forcing a pregnant woman to have a baby will not make things better. Many people would rather not be born then live a life of misery. I believe a person can become a parent when ever they want. Its not like humans are an endangered species anyways. Yes I know abortion is killing a potential human life but putting women in jail for having an abortion is not going to make things better. The last thing society needs is to put more people in prison.