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@p1kef1sh (45640)
November 21, 2008 5:33pm CST
Help please. What I know about witches is largely encapsulated in the discussion title. I keep coming across people here who say that they are Pagan. Now in very simple terms could someone please explain what that means. Has it anything to do with witchcraft, good or ill, is it connected to Wicca or Devil worship? All explanations will be gratefully received.
12 people like this
29 responses
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
21 Nov 08
P1ke I have a very good Friend here and we know each other of Mylot as we met and she has stayed with me a few times, who is Pagan, from what I understand it is not to do with Witchcraft not in the sense that we understand I really am still not to sure what it entails but I do know it is not bad and certainly nothing to do with the Devil
4 people like this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
21 Nov 08
Lol yes I just saw what Irish wrote what are you doing up it is gone 11pm Bed now I am going now to lol Goodnight xx
4 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
By the time that she wrote that I was in bed Gabs. Honest. I am becoming quite confused about paganism so far. I hope that there's not an exam at the end! LOL.
4 people like this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
22 Nov 08
Ok I will let you of then I did go to bed after writing your Response to lol And I have to say after looking at all the responses I hope there isn't one either lol But I would ask my Friend for the answers so I would pass I wish she would see this Discussion as she would give you the right answers xx
3 people like this
22 Nov 08
Hi p1key, Pagans worship the Gods and Goddess, and the moon, they love all thing nature and celebrate the four seasons, Wicca is very similar and they don't worship the devil as they don't believe in him only christains do. Pagand/Wicca believe in all things good. Hugs. Tamara
4 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
In harmony with nature and the gods that go with them then Tamara? Thank you. XX
3 people like this
@Galena (9123)
22 Nov 08
there's good things out there and bad things out there. anyone believing only in things that are good is a fool, or has been lucky enough not to encounter anything to show them otherwise. there are bad things out there, both physical and metaphysical. to believe in one but not the other is to cut off one arm and one leg. you'll not fuction as efficiently. to understand both sides is to achieve balance in the world, and move forwards on our path.
2 people like this
@dragon54u (31635)
• United States
22 Nov 08
I think most "witches" nowadays are herbal healers and positive thinkers. They're not like the title of this discussion, nor are they ugly and old. I personally don't believe in witches per se, but I do believe in love and positive thinking as good medicine along with science and prayer.
4 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Love and positive thinking are entirely worthy things. But so hard for many to grasp it seems.
4 people like this
• United States
22 Nov 08
pagan used in the past has meant people that are witches or non believers (not christian) usually now a days if some one says they are pagan they mean witch since they could easily say atheist etc.. i know religious people view pagans as devil worshipers a lot but they also think witches are devil worshipers so i think they are just grouping a bunch of people together.. im pagan as in wiccan
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
I am much clearer now. Interestingly I haven't had a single Christian take issue with anything that has been said here. But then again my question is simply "What is it?"
4 people like this
• United States
22 Nov 08
might just be a fluke! lol.. doesnt happen often but some times mylotters can talk about religion calmly..
3 people like this
@Galena (9123)
22 Nov 08
there are a lot of Pagans who don't practice any form of Witchcraft. so someone identifying themself as a Pagan is not in fact identifying themself as a Witch unless they then specify that they are. and Pagan and Wiccan do not mean the same thing. if you are a Wiccan, then you are a Pagan. but to be Pagan does not mean that you will be Wiccan. all stallions are male, but not all males are stallions. see. Wiccans are Pagan, but the vast majority of Pagans are not Wiccan. and Witchcraft can be practiced by someone of any religion, as it is a non-religious practice. like carpentry. anyone of any religion can learn it and become skilled at it. one of the most talented Witches I've known is a Christian. although Christianity doesn't allow it, she still believes in the deities in Christianity, and feels secure that she is doing good in the world, and is a fine and talented Witch.
2 people like this
@myklj999 (20957)
22 Nov 08
Pagans are evil hateful people that worship Satan as their Lord and Master and hope for dominion over the 7th level of Hell. They run red lights, steal candy from babies, cross against the signal in crosswalks, and various other sundry deeds. They all vote Republican and believe Nixon was innocent. They also do blood sacrifices of virgin animals in the dark of the moon, and think JFK had MLK killed. Oh, and they are all named Luther and Gladys. Other than that, I don't know too much about them.
3 people like this
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
22 Nov 08
Can we take the difference and make it the 8th level of hell?
3 people like this
@Rosekitty (19438)
• San Marcos, Texas
22 Nov 08
How about the 7th?
3 people like this
@Rosekitty (19438)
• San Marcos, Texas
22 Nov 08
I met the 6th..duh!!
3 people like this
@littleowl (7157)
22 Nov 08
Hi p1ke..Pagans are mainly witches..witch means wise woman/man, we have our own deities and worship the turn of the seasons, the moon...witches are not evil as some may think, we work for the greater good and do healing in various ways, we work with the unknown, thee are some pagans who are not witches and their are some who work in another way which you call devil worship...to us their is no devil he was made up by the christians because of one of our deitys. Wicca is a nature based religion and faith, we judge no-one for thir beliefs, nor preach to others of ours...I am sure you will get a lot more information from other mylotters and also from Christians, no offence to them but unless they know anything about our way of life then if they call us 'evil' or judge us in any way..then may they look at the speck in their own eye first, and not cast the first stone...hugs littleowl
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
He who is without sin may cast the first stone eh Littleowl? I believe that the devil was a form of controlling the populace by manipulative clergy. I'm getting a feel for what pagan is now. That's very helpful, thank you. XX
3 people like this
@Galena (9123)
22 Nov 08
hehe. P1ke, in saying that the Devil was a contstruct of the church in order to supress human natural behaviour, you are in fact, expressing the belief that sits at the core of Satanism. just to add to the confusion.
1 person likes this
@getnbuy (1314)
• United States
22 Nov 08
Its a quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth. All it means is that that is what Shakespeare thought it would be good for witches to say, so he srote it.
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
I know. That's why I put it up. Thank you.
3 people like this
@uath13 (8207)
• United States
22 Nov 08
I think it's been pretty well covered. I'll just add that devil worship is a corruption of the Christian religion. It has absolutely nothing to do with what most people would consider paganism or Wicca.
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
I have had some very comprehensive explanations. Light is starting to dawn.
3 people like this
@Thumper11 (662)
• United States
22 Nov 08
First just because someone is pagan does not mean that they are wiccan. Wicca is a form of paganism, as are santanism, hinduism, and every other non christian religion. Pagans worship nature...... wiccan's especially. I have studied wicca for years. I have a deep interest in it. I am not pagan... per se.... but I am interested in knowing more about it.
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
I am starting to learn that the term "pagan" is generic. Thank you.
3 people like this
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
22 Nov 08
I was going to say someone with a worship system not Jewish, Christian or Islamic but looking at the other responses, I thought I'd look it up, so here is a dictionary definition: 1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. 2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. 3. an irreligious or hedonistic person. I would disagree with that last one though.
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Thanks for that Dawn. Surely 1 and 3 conflict and 2 is a bit of a bummer if you are a taoist for example. Although they do revere nature and their ancestors I think. It suggests that everyone else is pagan.
2 people like this
@pumpkinjam (5800)
• United Kingdom
22 Nov 08
Well, I expect that others could give you better descriptions but I will tell you what I know as I understand it. Lots of people are Pagans but that doesn't necessarily make them witches or anything. Wicca is one form of Pagan belief although does not usually include any devil worship but can include witchcraft. Devil worship in itself is, as far as I know, not actually a type of Paganism but is something included in some not so nice Pagan religions. Bascially, Pagan and Wiccan are belief systems (Wicca being one "branch" of Paganism as, for example, Buddhism is a branch of Hinduism) but can vary from person to person in the exact practices and beliefs while witchcraft and devil worship are two separate practices although it is possible to practice them together. So, yes, in a way Pagan is connected to all of the things you have said but in different "branches". I think that is a fair explanation but I am sure someone else will correct and enlighten us if I am wrong.
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Your explanation agrees with that of others Pumpkin, things are slowly becoming clearer.
3 people like this
• United Kingdom
22 Nov 08
I know this is not entirely relevant to the discussion but I found this and thought it might be of interest to you. http://www.potw.org/archive/potw283.html
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Thank you Pumpkin. I saw MacBeth on the stage a couple of years ago. Someone from Emmerdale was one of the witches. She was good too!
3 people like this
@sharra1 (6342)
• Australia
22 Nov 08
Well I have been told I am not a Wiccan but a neo pagan. Whatever. I am not one to follow ritual without understanding or desire and these days it is unlike I would remember it all. To me being Pagan is following a nature based faith that treasures the earth as the source of our life, health, welfare. Without a healthy earth we will die. As the song "The Burning Times" says "she is the weaver of the web of life that keeps us alive". That is what being Pagan means to me. I do want to read up on Wicca but I have a big reading list that has been set for me and I am not up to that one yet. I know there are people who practice witchcraft who are not Wiccan as I met one in my last job. She reckoned she was a real witch and Wiccans were Wiccans not witches. I think its confusing.
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Just as I thought that I was starting to understand! LOL. I have a long way to go with this yet I think.
3 people like this
@sharra1 (6342)
• Australia
23 Nov 08
Thanks for the compliment Galena. I do try to keep my mind as open as possible as I am well aware that I can be incorrect on anything. I have been following an odd path all my life and I have no idea where it is going but I am sure I will get wherever I am going one day. I have learned that nothing can be taken for granted and to be ready to discard even the strongest belief if it is found to be erroneous. I know that is unusual but I have had my beliefs shattered in the past when I discovered I had believed a lie for 20 years. My stubbornness on that issue cost me dearly but taught me an incredible lesson. I will not make that mistake again. I have so much still to learn and the more I learn the more I realise how little I know. I will probably spend the rest of my life learning as much as I can.
@Galena (9123)
24 Nov 08
you should never stop learning. that's the best way. but don't be toooooo open minded. wouldn't want your brain to fall out. hehe. walk the balance. open minded enough to learn, not so open minded that the good stuff dribbles out your ears.
@Galena (9123)
22 Nov 08
here's the thing, mate. ask 5 Pagans, get 10 answers. we're all learning constantly, so we usually have a couple of theories on the go at once.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
23 Nov 08
Sound like lawyers! LOL. I've had some good stuff though. I don't need to know too much of the specifics just yet. Right now I want to know the generic and that's what I am learning. Specifics will come later and will be much more fun I suspect. My capacity to misunderstand is enormous!
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
23 Nov 08
Thank you Lash. Gosh I have a lot of stuff now. LOL. I have to concur with the point that the "established" Church views its teaching as the only route to God. Why should that be? Right for them perhaps, but an arrogance and presumption that others cannot also make the journey by a different route.
2 people like this
@Galena (9123)
25 Nov 08
one of the odditites being, that most theistic Pagans have personal experience of their Gods. so are less likely to see a need for an elevated priesthood, as we don't believe that any person couldn't access the Gods, with the right frame of mind, so we don't need a go between
@novataylor (6572)
• United States
22 Nov 08
Darling p1key. I'm not too sure about all of this, but there was a discussion quite a while back that gave a quiz, telling us what religion we most belonged to. Remember? Well - I took that quiz, and it seems that I fit 100% with the Neo-Pagan religion, whatever that means. So am I a witch? Only on really bad days. I really have no idea what a neo-pagan is, but I do know that I've never claimed to be a christian. Hmmm. Yeah, I know, this hasn't helped you one single little bit, but it was what I thought of when I read your discussion.......sorry....
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Don't be sorry Nova. I always benefit from your contributions. I think that you might be a witch because you cast a spell on me! XXXX
2 people like this
• United States
22 Nov 08
Cackle, cackle.........wheeeeeeeeee, off on my broom!!!!!!!!!!
2 people like this
• Canada
22 Nov 08
Nova has cast one one me, too! But maybe I have cast one on her, too, P1key, eh? For all of our mutual benefit, after all.
1 person likes this
@Humbug25 (12551)
22 Nov 08
Hi ya p1kefish Sorry I know more than you when it comes to this subject, I know that surprises you as I usually know something about everything but hey even the brainy have a day off!! hahahah lol . I too am intrigued about pagans and the connection with witchcraft!
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
You know more than me but didn't share what you know Humbug. I'm all ears now! Are you a pagan?
2 people like this
@Humbug25 (12551)
23 Nov 08
Not that I know of p1key!!
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
22 Nov 08
The Pagans are not the worshipper of Devil.They are the worshipper of nature.They imagine God in many forms of nature.So they have many gods and goddess.It is wrong to say they are the worshipper of Devil.Which stories are made by the believer Of God.These are simply stories.Some tribals are which worshipper.
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
I'm starting to learn this now Bhansub. It's all being very helpful. Thank you.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40316)
• Canada
22 Nov 08
Paganism is the worship of many gods. It is not the worship of the mother goddess as some so called pagans of the "nature belief and vegan or we cannot kill animals "believe. There are some pagans that are into Devil worship, and some who are Wiccans, Of course, the Wiccans will say that only they are the true pagans. Then if you read the Bible, it says that they worshiped demons (translation" the bad angels that fell to earth with Satan) and believed them gods but were really idols. So Hinduism, the animalistic worship, the native American beliefs, Wicca, worship of Thor, Woden, Zeus, Jupiter, the ancient Roman, Greek, Norse, and Celtic gods are all pagan worship. So the Wiccans are not the only one. Christianity, Judaism, and Muslim are all worshipers of one god, and only the Christian God is the true God.
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
22 Nov 08
Thank you for that Suspenseful. Surely all Gods are ultimately the same God. It's just the path that is different. It's what it means to YOU that matters.
1 person likes this
• United States
22 Nov 08
Suspenseful: Speaking on a subject of which you have absolutely no clue just make you appear ignorant to the extreme. For your own sake please stop embarrassing yourself. You are doing nothing more than spreading inaccuracies and outright lies. If someone asks for facts, leave it to the people who actually know the facts not make them up as you go along to discredit or in your own unsubtle way chastise someone for what they believe. It is beyond rude and in your own bible I believe lying about your neighbor is a sin. Please practice what you preach.
• Australia
22 Nov 08
I find this useful: All Gods are one God, and the Goddess and God are one. Lash
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
23 Nov 08
Answering from email.. I know Wicca is one form of Pagan belief it doesn't mean it includes any devil worship though, but can include magic/witchcraft. I don't think devil worship is a pagan belief but I could be wrong.. Here is what a site I looked for information said. Who is a "Pagan?" Everybody has their favorite definition of the word "Pagan." Most people are convinced that their meaning is the correct one. But no consensus exists, even within a single faith tradition or religion as to the "correct" definition of "Pagan." The same problem happens with the definition of "Christianity," and probably with many other religions. First meaning: Pagans consist of Wiccans and other Neopagans: We recommend that this should be the primary definition of "Pagan," for the simple reason that many Wiccans and other Neopagans embrace the term for themselves. "Paganism" in this sense refers to a range of spiritual paths. These are generally Neopagan religions based on the deities, symbols, practices, seasonal days of celebration and other surviving components of ancient religions, which had been long suppressed. For example: bullet The Druidic religion is based on the faith and practices of the ancient Celtic professional class; bullet Followers of Asatru adhere to the ancient, pre-Christian Norse religion; bullet Wiccans trace their roots back to the pre-Celtic era in Europe. bullet Other Neo-pagans follow Hellenismos (ancient Greek religion), Religio Romana (ancient Roman religion), Kemetism (ancient Egyptian religion) and other traditions. Some Neopagan religions, like Wicca and Druidism, are Earth centered: emphasizing living in harmony with the Earth and observing its cycles. Others, like Hellenismos and Religio Romana, are deity centered. Some typical quotations which demonstrate this meaning of "Pagan" are: bullet "Witchcraft, or Wicca, is considered part of the occult, but has little relationship to Satanism. Wicca is pagan (pre-Christian, as opposed to anti-Christian) and is currently gaining popularity." 1 bullet "Witches do not worship the devil...Witches are more interested in magical arts and the divinity of nature...Wiccans are considered pagans because they worship several nature gods instead of a single god." 2 bullet "The World Christian Encyclopedia estimates 6 million Americans profess to be witches and engage in practices like these. They are a sub-group of over 10 million persons the encyclopedia says call themselves pagans, who practice "primitive" religions such as Druidism, Odin worship and Native American shamanism." 3 It is easier to just read it from the link.. http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
23 Nov 08
Blimey Becky. That's a heck of a lot of reading. LOL. Thank you very much. I am starting to get a grip on exactly what paganism is and what it is not. I now need to sort all this and probably talk in greater depth to a couple of people. I shall be in the Cathedral this afternoon and might just ask one or two there on their take on paganism. That could be interesting!
1 person likes this
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
23 Nov 08
Whew wouldn't want to be in your shoes for sure..lol That can cause alot of preaching and a riot..lol I think it is because the first thing some think about is the Wicca thing and it curdles their girdles and they end up with a wedgie..which puts them in a crank of a foul mood .
1 person likes this
@Galena (9123)
24 Nov 08
Wicca can't really be described as Pre-Christian. it draws on some pre Christian beliefs, but it was founded by Gerald Gardner in about the 1940s.
• United States
23 Nov 08
The early meaning of the word "pagan" was what the Christians called people who had no religion. I don't know how it's used today.
1 person likes this
• United States
23 Nov 08
Actually Pagan is the old Latin word "paganus" meaning villager or civilian. The pre-Christian Roman military used it as a derrogatory term for an incompetent soldier. The Christians turned it into meaning a person who was not "a soldier for Christ" evolving into a derrogatory term for any non-Christian regardless of their religion. It's strict dictionary definition today means anyone who does not follow the Abrahamic God of the Christians, Jews or Muslims.
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
23 Nov 08
Thank you both.
1 person likes this
• United States
23 Nov 08
Craftcatcher, I found your response very interesting. Thanks
1 person likes this
• United States
23 Nov 08
Pikefish, Would you be kind enough to respond if only to make a link to this post on my most recent Discussion that I started in the subject of Writing a Book? I would be so honored if you would be kind enough to post a reply and a link to this discussion I think it would be a great beginning for others. Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
23 Nov 08
I have posted a piece on your discussion linking to here. I'll return the favour and put this link here:www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1803366.aspx?p=1#1_10114129 to yours. Hope that helps. Take care.
1 person likes this
• United States
24 Nov 08
Thank You, that was very kind of you... :)