Welfare and food stamp systems be scrapped !!

@ronnyb (6125)
Jamaica
February 9, 2009 7:09am CST
Yes I said that but before you have me lined up before a shooting squad consider my premise and solution. It is my view that these systems which should actually serve as a safety net defeats that purpose in two ways ,1) it sometimes makes persons lazy because they know that they can apply for welfare and 2) it creates extra financial burden on the state a burden which we all have to bear as taxpayers and that is somewhat unfair .Don’t get me wrong I believe in protecting the less fortunate and I am happy to have such systems as I will never know when I may fall into that grouping however I would prefer to earn my keep. Consequently I am suggesting a scrapping of such a system unless it is for really handicapped persons and instead using the money to institute a system where these persons work and get paid. I believe that this system will provide needed revenue and remove from government the expense of the welfare system. What do you think ,am I the inhumane person I seem to be or is my suggestion practical ?Maybe you agree to a certain extent ,in that case what do you disagree with ? and in addition maybe you could suggest practical ways that this system may be implemented
9 people like this
28 responses
• United States
9 Feb 09
I agree that this should only be made available to those unfortunate people who really need help. I have one family member who is 22 years old single and pregnant with her 3rd child. As long as she gets Medicaid, Welfare and food stamps she has no intention of working. I expect baby number four will not take long to follow as soon as she delivers the third. I am convinced the woman who is currently in the news would not have had 14 children if she was not getting government aid and a lot of publicity, IMO her delivery should not be called multiple births but a litter.
5 people like this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
I am glad you understand what I am saying that there are persons who can work but turn down certain jobs because they know that they have welfare systems that pay a little better.I believe in protection for those persons who need it but I think this system is being abused
2 people like this
@alharra (508)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Trust me I understand where you are coming from in thinking the system is screwed but.... I have been trying to find a job for over a year and have been unable to do so. Without the food stamps I get I and my 3 kids would starve. I don't get child support so there is no money there. What do you suggest I do?
3 people like this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
Oh please dont get me wrong ,I am talking about those who abuse the system not persons like you who want to work and cant get one.I am simpmly saying that if jobs were created using the same money they paid out ,tthen persons like you could get a job. i am against persons who dont want to work and live off the system not th eearnest ones like you .I am sorry if I sounded inhumane ,mayeb I didnt think this one through thoroughly ...sorry if I sounded insensitive ..would never ever want your children to starve
1 person likes this
@alharra (508)
• United States
9 Feb 09
And we also have to consider how much you would be paying these folks, hours they woud work, paying babysitters etc. See I also have the additional problem of a child that most day care centers won't take at all because he is special needs.
2 people like this
@bamakelly (5194)
• United States
9 Feb 09
You had to expect there to be some dissension from the group over a matter like this topic. I am not calling out a firing squad nor am I really angry with your opinion on this matter however there is some ignorance as to the facts you think that you have on this matter. I do agree that a lot of people are paying taxes and there is possibly an extra financial burden when it comes to welfare. I am not sure if you have children. I am the first person that would like to be able to earn my keep which is apparently what my husband and son and I have to do now that our food stamps were cut a couple of months ago. My husband makes too much money to stay on the system. We needed that extra money to keep food on the table and now we struggling once again from paycheck to paycheck and paying outrageous bills and having hardly enough money to buy food for ourselves at the end of the month. I am very sure that there are families out there like my own going through the same thing. Actually when I did receive food stamps we still struggled to make it to the end of the month on what we had. There are people out there that could be milking the system and having children and figuring on being complacent on staying on the system and perhaps living off the backs of the taxpayers. I don't do that and a lot of welfare recipients out there are not doing that. I also don't believe that it is just one ethnic group or any other type of group that collects welfare. I know that you didn't really touch on that subject really but I can tell you that I am a white woman that needs a leg up just like any one else. We all need help from time to time no matter what ethnic or any other background that we are. There should be no stereotyping in this matter. I don't think that the welfare system should be totally scrapped. The system of welfare has put into place a system where people need to work or try to find work in certain cases just so they can stay on the welfare itself. Not everyone is just laying around in all of their glory collecting.
2 people like this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
Once again this discussion has proved to be a caes of biting off more than i can chew .However , I was only speaking of those who benefit fromthe system without making any attempt to find work .I am not speaking about families who have to survive on the system.My apologies I thorougly regret writing on this issue now that I dont have all the facts.I still maintain though that there could be a parrale sysytem where sompe persons who want to work should be given this opportunity especially when this system could yield better benefits than the traditional welfare system.I am sure that you wouldnt mind working you strike me as a hard working person ,once again my apologies for any misunderstanding and my ignorance
1 person likes this
@xbrendax (2668)
• United States
10 Feb 09
What you don't understand is those able bodied people MUST work, or try hard to find work or go to job fairs and hand in resume's or attend work sites or they DO NOT GET ANY WELFARE! Go to any welfare office and they will tell you that!
@Pose123 (21667)
• Canada
9 Feb 09
Hi ronnyb, The idea of working for wefare has been suggested many times and has also been tried without much success. That however, doesn't mean that a better system can't be worked out and at least you are thinking. Something is needed that will benefit everyone. Blessings.
2 people like this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
Ok thanks for your response ,I didnt know that this was tried before but i am learning that there are mnay things that I dont know about this welfare system anayway.I maintain though there may be a better system .
@K46620 (1996)
• United States
10 Feb 09
I agree they should be scrapped. Very few people truly need welfare support. If you do, there is family members, churches, and other organizations you can seek help from. It is very unfair and socialistic to have so many people depending on the government, at the expense of those who are actually doing work.
1 person likes this
@alharra (508)
• United States
15 Feb 09
I am receiving help from my family- a roof. But they don't have enough to feed and cloth us as well.
@K46620 (1996)
• United States
15 Feb 09
Another possibility is to have a time limit to all welfare, like 1 year, so that people don't depend on it but rather view it as emergency money.
@alharra (508)
• United States
15 Feb 09
I have been looking for a job for over a year now. There should be exceptions to the cut-off time you are talking about. I have a special needs son and there is no daycare that will take him because of that. ANd I have 3 kids so I would need to make at least $10 to take care of my family and I would still have to live with my parents. Please don't think that I am not trying because I am but there is nothing i can do to change my current situation- i'm doing the best that i can. I'm staying in a relationship to make sure that I don't need to drain the system further and to be honest with you I should be ending it not keeping it going.
@cutepenguin (6457)
• Canada
9 Feb 09
I agree that there are many flaws with the system - but I don't necessarily agree that the program should be scrapped entirely. There will always be people who have fallen on hard times and just need a bit of a helping hand. It's the people who stay on the system forever that need to be pushed to get some kind of work. I wish that i could think of a good solution.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
True and I am not talking about people who have fallen on hard times just those able bodied persons who get welfare without due process and refuse to do certain menial jobs.Those are the persons I am talking about and wish there was a solution that encompasses the needy and excludes the lazy .That is what I was trying to suggest ,as to the practicality thats another matter
• Canada
10 Feb 09
maybe it should be more like the EI program - you have to submit reports that show you are seeking work, or something like that. It would be difficult to implement it though.
@savak03 (6681)
• United States
10 Feb 09
Here in the United States welfare and food stamps have helped many families stay together, keep a roof over their heads and feed themselves. That being said, there were a lot of people getting benefits that should not have been. In the late 70's and early 80's I personally saw and heard welfare mothers tell their teenage daughters to get pregnant so they could get a check. And these same women would have a baby every year so their check would increase. I forget exactly when the government started the welfare reform here but they made some major changes. They set a limit on how long a person who was already on welfare could continue to get a check and they canceled all the exceptions. No more could you say I can't work because I have kids or because I am disabled. If you were truly disabled they helped you apply for social security, and if you had children they provided for child care. If you needed job training they helped you get that. Over the years they reduced the number of people on the welfare roles considerably. Another thing that I remember was if you had one child out of wedlock they would give you a check until you get on your feet but they would also offer you assistance with birth control and if you had a second child you lost your check. I am sure that there are still areas that need further reform but the welfare system here is not the free ride it used to be. The cycle of welfare families for the most part has been broken and more people are learning to provide for themselves and take pride in that ability.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
10 Feb 09
I am totally for welfare systems that work according to plan in terms of maintaining family cohesiveness ,that is what they are for .I am just against abuse of these systems.What I didnt know was the extent that people are willing to go to get welfare.I am happy to know that there are spells an dchecks now to prevent that over there.
• United States
9 Feb 09
Have you noticed the economic hard times we're suffering? Many people who never dreamed they would do so have had to apply for food stamps and/or welfare since they lost jobs and can't find new ones. Many who hold jobs have undergone so many pay cuts and prices keep rising, so the numbers of working poor keep increasing. The bills don't stop, but income is curtailed. Should these families just be alowed to starve or turn to theft to remain alive?
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
10 Feb 09
Like I said I am not against helping the poorest in any society ,all I am saying that I owuld rether get an opportunity to work for it and I am saying that in working I may be able to earn more than I would on welfare while contributting to our society .I am also saying that maybe if I am given th eopportunity I amy even be able to create jobs and help the stae once again with taxes.All I am saying is that pump some of the money in job creation for these people on welfare
@suzzy3 (8368)
9 Feb 09
At last.I hope they do that over here.Some people are so lazy it makes me cross,how do they get away with not working and expect people like my hard working proud husband has to work a day a week to pay taxes to keep these lazy devils before he can start providing for his own family.If someone is disabled or vunerable I won't list them all as it will take me all week.You understand what I mean.The snow has cut off whole communities and they are sitting indoors while the rest of the country is fighting to get to work,why don't they get their shovels out and dig the snow away from the pavements,ect.There are community projects clearing land,picking up rubbish,old peoples gardening ect why don't the government say if you want your money ,do something for it, if not no money will be given to you this week,it would soon get them off their lazy backsides and into work.I do beleave that there are people out of work that would be pleased to do something for their money as it is not their choice to be out of work,so please don't think I am taring everyone with the same brush.There are genuine people who are out of work through no fault of their own.
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
Yes its the lazy people that I am against .If this served its purpose as a safety net for the needy then that is ok but so many people abuse the system.I am hoping that they can figure out a way to exclude the lazy people while encompassing the needy.i personally think the welfare system should include some work for pay component for those who can work
@snowcat46 (2323)
• United States
9 Feb 09
I've always been against welfare. From my own personal experience. I think they should be more stringent about who they allow on it. If a woman continually pumps out babies without being married, she should be required to get tied off. I've known quite a few of these women. The more kids you have, the more money you get. The kids don't see much of this. And the stipulation about it only going for food is far too easily gotten around. These women on it should be required to do work as well. Even if they can't find a paying job, they should be required to do community service or help in some way. Welfare is a real sore subject with me!
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
9 Feb 09
I agree with you too .Many persons are abusing these systems the world over and as such they should be more stringent.I have always beleieved you teach a man to fish and he wont be hungry.I think that just paying out money to able bodied men without due process might just lead to laziness.
• Japan
9 Feb 09
The problem is the way the system is implemented. I know of cases where people wanted to work found jobs which paid less that what they were getting in food stamps and welfare. Therefore the questions becomes what is the payrate? Can they make enough to live on. Or have you not worked out those details yet? Thankfully, no one in my family has ever had to use food stamps or be on welfare. Not this plan what kind of work would they do? You can`t just scrap the system you need to have an alternative.Which has to be well thought out because they have to be given skills to compete with people from around the world. If not they will be back in line for welfare as those companies will go out of business because they can not compete.
1 person likes this
@bamakelly (5194)
• United States
12 Feb 09
I strongly agree with your statement SeoulBoy. It is definitely the way the system is implemented. It doesn't necessarily have to be scrapped because there are people that might be abusing the system making it harder for the ones that really deserve it.
@chertsy (3805)
• United States
11 Feb 09
I can see this from both sides. I have family members that use this system. A few of them I don't think they work. I know for a fact that one lost one of her kids to the child's father, and then turned around and had another by another guy. She doesn't work, or she wouldn't have been on the news in a major prescription medicine sting, sad to say. My sister gets food stamps but she also works her butt off to take care of her family. She doesn't get a lot, but it's the free medical that she needed the most. She gets good dental at her job for her daughter, which explains why she needed help on the other things. My parents got full custody of my niece and nephew after my brother and his wife(ex wife now)decided they didn't want to be parents anymore. The court was like either take them or we will put them in foster homes. When my parents took them, the state was like you will need extra help. Now my parents took care of these two kids since they were babies, and didn't get any help at all until they were older. The state helped them get child support going, which isn't much since my brother would rather spend time in jail than be a dad. The state also set up medical and dental, come to find out, my ex sis in law never took them to the doctor to get proper medical care and shots. When the state saw my parents were stressed out from all of this. They gave my mom a card like a debit card with a certain amount of money on it. My mom made sure that each of my niece and nephew got what they needed. Which was clothes, school supplies and such. Whatever they needed at that time. She didn't get food, because with my dad's pride. He felt like the state thought he couldn't provide for his grandchildren. My mom got tired of the hassle of it, of having to deal with my brother and the kids mom. She told the state thank you, but we can do this on our own now. The money given to them should go to families that need it more. My niece graduated high school a year early, and is in college now. My nephew will be graduating soon and moving out on his own. So no need for it anymore, especially since their mom finally stepped up and gets him the things he needs for school. 14 years to late but at least she tries, wish I could say more for my brother. I think the welfare and food stamp system should be for the elderly, after 65 and their health isn't the best that they can't work anymore. For families that truly need it, not ones that pops out a child every so often so they don't have to work. I believe if you can work, and can find a job that pays enough that you don't need help, you shouldn't be on this program. I think anyone that's found on this program should at least get out there and find a job that is able to. Now I believe that anyone that has a child from birth to age 5, should be put on the WIC program. Raising a child is expensive and should be given help. I think if WIC would replace the welfare program, some women would stop popping out a child and get a job.
1 person likes this
@taface412 (3177)
• United States
10 Feb 09
I have come to the conclusion that the way we should help the less fortunate is to encourage the churches, community services, even neighbors to help out people where they can. If every community helped within their own then we would not have people who feel they have to horde services, they themselves would feel productive and understand they will receive help if needed and there would be no need for government assistance. But then again I think everyone should just get a long.
1 person likes this
@ShellyB (5244)
• United States
10 Feb 09
If the goverment is not going to do anything about creating jobs, is allowing companies to take the jobs overseas, and well continues to be the same way, I do not see anything wrong with the goverment paying for food stamps and welfare. (And by the way I get frustraded hearing how our taxes cover these families, what I paid in taxes alone can't possible cover the food stamps of one family per year)
1 person likes this
@umart13 (841)
• Ireland
10 Feb 09
Hi ronnyb, It is a very harsh statement to make mainly because those on the social welfare are outsiders and do not have politicians or unions fighting their causes, as they are only interested in the insiders. Many people in many countries blame the social welfare system and you are right in that people may be tempted to abuse the system or become lazy as I see in Ireland or Germany. However, people often don't get work, because they are discriminated against and they are forced to remain outsiders. We all know the saying: "It's easier to get a job, when you have a job". Why is that? Simply - It's discrimination!I would also add that the cost of keeping the unemployed is not as great as many free-marketeers would have us believe. Most people here in Germany don't seem to realize that since the 1960s an enormous proportion of Government Budget goes to pay the pensions of ex-Civil Servants or former Government employees, as well as defence spending. Did I say defence spending for Germany? Yes! I don't know exactly what it was for, as Germany was not allowed to export arms during this time, but it's there. So I would ask people not to victimize the helpess and think more of where your taxes are really going... Have a good week. Umart
@Arkie69 (2156)
• United States
10 Feb 09
I don't think you are inhumane. I just think you need to know a little more about the situation some of us are forced to live in. I'm 70 years old with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. I can't even get to the bathroom without just about running out of Oxygen. I am forced to try to live with this situation tho because there is no way I can afford a home Oxygen system. I just spent the past 16 days in the hospital and they sent me home with a hand full of prescriptions I can't afford to have filled. I receive $1,196 a month Social Security and that's it. I am paying to keep a roof over the heads of 4 people. My Grand Daughter and here two kids live with me. She works when she can which helps but isn't even close to enough. She receives about $500 in food stamps each month and that is what feeds us. Mine is going to support the house and the meds that I must have to live. Here in Arkansas they have what they call Our Kids First that is supported by the state. It pays the health care on the kids and I thank God for it. If you take the food stamps out of our house then we don't eat. I really don't believe you would want to do that. And, there is a lot of others, especially the older people in the same boat I am. Art
1 person likes this
@grammasnook (1877)
• United States
9 Feb 09
In Massachusetts we have welfare reform, this is something that I can definately live with. You are able to collect welfare and be with your child for only 2 years BUT they will pay for you to go to school and receive an education so you do not have to rely on welfare. This program is for the single moms. They will pay for your child care and your schooling. Take advantage of it. Then after the 2 year of full welfare you might be eligible for food stamps for an additional year. Many of the women walk away with jobs that are 10 dollars plus. Please do not think that a mother and child receives alot from welfare because they do not they get around 400 a month and about 200 in stamps. Not enough to live on. Many people fall on hard times and need some assistance, Just this month we had no income at all my workers comp played games with me and terminated me for no reason and my husband was laid off. I went down to get help with food stamps. I did not abuse the system after all both my husband and I have put in for over 30 years each. As soon as my husbands unemployment check came we reported it. I know in lots of states young women have made it a job of living off welfare. oh I failed to mention that if while you are on welfare and get pregnant they will not add that child to the benefits when they are born. This encourages women to use protection and to realize their children are not a payday. I do not mind my money going toward these young mothers bettering themselves at all at least they will be productive and not living on welfare for 20+ years. As for people looking capable of working their are many things that may prevent this, such as Brain Injury, Mental retardation, heart diseases, arthritis, bipolar there are things that you can not see and you should not just assume because they have all their limbs that they are capable of working.
@alharra (508)
• United States
9 Feb 09
My state has welfare reform as well- there is a 2 year cap on it. But there are problems there as well. In my case, for instance, they won't pay for me to go to school. Apparently I have to much education to qualify for that program even though the state never paid a cent to my school. Then there is the problem of finding a babysitter- can't be done. I have a child with Asperger's, a form of autism, and it is almost impossble to find a center that will take him. I can't leave the kids with my Mom for several reasons- she has a broken hip and I simply don't trust her because of the level of meds she is on. I would love to get a job and am always looking in the hope that I can find something that I can work while the kids are in school or on 3rd shift but so far I have been unsuccessful. And unless I make at least $10 an hour I won't be able to take care of my family.
• United States
11 Feb 09
Alharra I am not sure were you live but I know factual here in massachusetts your child would qualify for social security and medical. The medical would pay for your child to be in a day program. Most young moms that are on welfare are lucky to have a high school diploma never mind a college education. They will only pay for a 2 year degree. Is gonna say something more easily said than done, but perhaps you need to think about relocting your family to a more suitable area that will embrace your child and help you emotionally/financially. I wish you and yours best wishes with being successful in all your journeys.
@alharra (508)
• United States
15 Feb 09
This system won't let you edit something if you goof and try to back up. I get a little less than $500 a month.
@quinnkl (1668)
• United States
12 Feb 09
I think that in the time of this bad economy talking of getting rid of the welfare and especially food stamps is very bad timing on your part. More and more people, through no fault of their own are needing assistance right now. And I doubt the former Bush administration is going to pay everyone that they put in this position by trashing the economy!!!! So something has to be done to get things back on track before we think of scrapping the help that people have. And by the way, anyone who paid taxes putting money into this system, who is in need of help, should be able to get the help by getting some of their money back. I am self employed and was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. I would NEVER have thought to ask for help, but when you are a single parent, and out of commission for a year, and there is no where else to go, you do what you have to do. And thank God there was something (it wasn't a lot , but something) there for us. I felt so awful taking help, and my dad reminded me that I paid into that "pot" for over 40 years, and I wasn't taking all I paid in back out. So to think of it that way. And I did and it kept me from being totally depressed and humiliated. So scrapping it or talk of doing so in these economical times just doesn't make sense to me. Ask the question and suggest the differences again when finances and job market is better for us all.
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
12 Feb 09
Pertinent pooints and they are well taken.This is a point when persons will need help and I am not suggesting that these systems be scrapped without having a cushion for those persons who will need it ,all I am saying is that may be there is a way to help both the needy and the ecomnomy all at once by putting these persons to work while paying them.That way jobs are created and also tax points as they would earn and these people woulndt feel that they were begging so they would have a sense of pride that they were contributting .
@cyberfluf (5005)
• Netherlands
15 Feb 09
I don't know these institutions work in your country, but in order to get Welfare and food stamps there are some really strict rules here. If you are to get Welfare and foodstamps, you are not allowed to handle your own money anymore. This is done for you (as a lot of these people are in dept trying to make their way out of trouble, only enhancing more trouble by doing this). Their depts, and if there are no depts just their bills, are being paid and they get an allowance and food is provided. This food is minimal, you can't feed a family of it and will have to use up your allowance to make a living. No more haircuts, bathing products, etc. you can't afford that of what you get. I know people who get this kind of help so I see it is basicly never enough and if you don't have friends or neighbours helping you out, you are basicly lost. So being lazy doesn't get you welfare that easy here in Holland, even though there are allways people who seem to find their way into wellfare that don't have a good reason to be in there. This will allways be an issue, even if you talk about really handicapped people. What exactly is really handicapped? What do we count in and what not? Is a person in a wheelchair that has other psychiatric problems also severly handicapped or can they process data on a pc? You can go a great extent with jobs that are made to meassure; there is so much we need to think of. A though issue indeed.. I guess there is no simple way about it. there will allways be people cheating the system.
@rusty2rusty (6767)
• Defiance, Ohio
13 Feb 09
Okay here is my take. First off, unless someone has been in teh situation of needing help from welfare, foodstamps and liekwise. They have no clue. they really don't. With as many peopel loosing their jobs daily. I am glad I live in a country who helps their poor and needy. it may not be alot. but it is something. Before you even ask I will tell you. Yes, I am disabled. No I do not get any kind of public assistance. My husband puts enough overtime each week to disqualify my family from any help. In other words my husband is working his finger to the bones to support hsi family. I have gotten help in the past. But that was when I had my first child. It was a high risk pregnacy. I was lucky to have carried my son as long as I did. As I started bleeding when I was only a couple months along. If it wasn't for that little bit of help. I really don't know what I would have done. AS for those that are disabled, it takes years to get diability. They just don't give to anyone. If someone quailifies for help. They shoudl get it reguardless of who they are or how many times they have been helped.