The Pope's Visit In Africa Where He Condemns Witchcraft
By pyewacket
@pyewacket (43903)
United States
March 22, 2009 5:38am CST
No doubt many of you have heard that the Pope is visiting in Africa. During his visit there he is openly condemning witchcraft and sorcery. Okay I plea my ignorance in what kind of "religion" some indigenous Africans may have. Many African Americans for instance follow "Voodoo" which despite what many think is not
[i]On his first pilgrimage to Africa, the pope drew on the more than 500 years of Roman Catholicism in Angola, saying that Christianity was a bridge between the local peoples and the Portuguese settlers.
"In today's Angola," the pope said in a homily at Mass, "Catholics should offer the message of Christ to the many who live in the fear of spirits, of evil powers by whom they feel threatened, disoriented, even reaching the point of condemning street children and even the most elderly because _ they say _ they are sorcerers."
In Africa, some churchgoing Catholics also follow traditional animist religions and consult medicine men and diviners who are condemned by the church. People accused of sorcery or of being possessed by evil powers sometimes are killed by fearful mobs.
Benedict counseled Catholics to "live peacefully" with animists and other nonbelievers and urged Angolans to be the "new missionaries" to bring people who believe in sorcery to Christ.
[/i]
http://www.newser.com/article/d972dvkg0/pope-condemns-witchcraft-in-africa-urges-angolans-to-spread-faith-to-nonbelievers.html
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I'm sorry folks but this is one of the prime reasons I've objected to the Christian religion to begin with...it's STILL trying to convert the world to IT'S way...that only being a Christian can you be saved. Saved from what pray tell??....EXCUSE ME...BUT I'm VERY HAPPY in my religion---it was Christianity who condemned indigenous religions of Native Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, Hawaiians...should I go on?
9 people like this
29 responses
@urbandekay (18278)
•
23 Mar 09
Witches advise to the man with aids is evil
all the best urban
2 people like this
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
23 Mar 09
2009 years of oppression by the Catholic Church... and no government in the world has the guts to stop them.
Is it not interesting that today we demand of the whole world to be politically correct... but the Pope is immune to it and can do whatever he likes while hiding behind the name of GOD.
I recommend you to watch the movie "Paradise Found" with Kiefer Sutherland.
It does show how the church convert natives to its religion.
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
If Paradise Found is one of those real depressing ones think I'll pass, since I've seen enough "realistic" types of movies like that
@Ravenladyj (22904)
• United States
22 Mar 09
it's STILL trying to convert the world to IT'S way...that only being a Christian can you be saved. Saved from what pray tell??....EXCUSE ME...BUT I'm VERY HAPPY in my religion---
Yep I agree...Some thigns will never change eh....and I too often wonder what exactly we all need to be "saved" from...I mean yea I get the fact that Christians believe we need to be saved from ourselves and our souls need to be saved in order to live eternally with god blah blah blah BUT first off...all things considered, my soul is in damn fine order thank you very much and secondly what biz is it of anyone elses if it ISNT in good order?? Deal with your own caca and leave mine the bloody hell alone thanks...and like you, I am also very happy walking the road I do..I wouldnt change it for anything...its saved my life, helped me help myself on my road of healing, helped me help my kids, friends, family and so on..I'm a good woman naturally but even that much more becuaes of my Pagan and Buddhist ways...why mess up a good thing I say..
3 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
23 Mar 09
You're so right. I could never understand the concept of why some sects of Christianity feels it needs to "save" people when they already have a religion or belief they are happy in.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
22 Mar 09
I do not believe in Roman Catholicism where they worship Mary and consider the Pope as the spiritual descendant of Peter nor that they have to go to a priest to intercede for their sins when they can pray to God themselves. I also do not believe in witchcraft, wicca, and other pagan religions. There is only one way to be saved and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ.
I also do not believe that because a person happens to be dark skinned, as they are in Africa, that person has to be kept in his condition of believing in animal spirits, witchcraft, etc. This idea that because you are of Irish descent you have to believe in Wicca and the old religion, of your ancestors came from Norway, Sweden , Iceland, or Denmark, you have to believe in Thor the Thundergod, you are Jewish so you have to believe in Judiasm, etc. is wrong.
Missionaries have the God given right to try to convert the natives, they do not have the right to threaten them or torture and kill them if they do not as the Muslims do when they want the Africans in the Sudan and elsewhere to turn to Islam.
And it is God that uses missionaries and ministers to convert people and to open their hearts. but it is done in love and those whose hearts HE does not want to convert, HE lets remained closed. And those HE wants their hearts to be open, no matter how much one rants and raves and say they do not deserve it (for whatever reason being they do not have blue eyes, they are in prison waiting execution for murder, they are too fair skinned, they are not honest enough), those whom HE calls will still become Christians.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
We're still of very different minds and I think you're missing the point. If a culture of people have their own religion that they have believed in for thousands of years it doesn't give the right for another culture/race/religion to try to cram their beliefs into people to "save" them. While yes, I am of part Celtic blood, that in no way was the reason I changed my beliefs to follow pagan/wicca...I decided to change to those beliefs of my own free will. NO ONE was cramming their beliefs into me, the way many Christian sects wish to do to "save" a person. And too many Christian sects believe that only THEIR religion is the right one...what bunk and very narrow minded
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
26 Mar 09
I do not think that it is right for someone to deny others the way to salvation. I can understand not allowing the Muslims to come and kidnap children, rape women and force others to believe what they do, because it is not a peaceful religion, but to say that if one goes to Africa or Asia where there are people who believe in ancestor worship, or in worship of spirits in trees, that one cannot teach the people the good news of the gospel. Usually the reason the missionaries come over is because there is one or more natives who are praying that someone will come over because their own beliefs do not keep them in comfort and yet you will decide that the missionaries have to stay where they are and not come to preach the gospel because the natives have been worshiping devils for thousands of years.
I was also thinking of those in hell weeping and gnashing of teeth, weeping because they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and gnashing their teeth against those in hell with them who kept them from knowing the way to salvation.
We cannot deny who God calls and besides also in hell are the false preachers who crammed things down people's throats. The ones in heaven are the good preachers and those whom God's heart opened. They did not need cramming.
Do you hate God so much that you would deny the preaching of the word to those who want to listen?
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Mar 09
What makes you think all those are in hell since they haven't accepted Christ in their lives? You realize how narrow-minded that is? When are you going to understand that NOT everyone believes in Christ first of all, Buddhist don't, Hindus don't, Muslims don't, indigenous native religions don't--pagan/wiccans don't...so does that mean we're all going to hell? That's really very narrow-minded in thinking.
As far as denying the preaching of the word. Sure fine, but I don't like people going door to door like common ordinary door to door salesmen spewing out their religious ideas to me and asking me if I've been saved---and let me tell you since I've observed this myself, when these preachers come door to door, everyone slams the door in their faces.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
23 Mar 09
I, admittedly, don't know much about this but I do think it is wrong for the pope to go to another country or anywhere for that matter and try to push religion and imply that their religion is wrong. I was raised catholic and really just could not abide by it or agree to all of it. Thankfully my parents were open to exposing us kids to other religions and we were exposed to many different beliefs. At 12, I was typing manuscripts for a medium which was very interesting and lead me to read up on all sorts of paranormal. That is strictly against the catholic religion and looking back, I'm pretty impressed that my parent's allowed it. I have my own beliefs also and I don't push them on anyone and I don't like it when anyone tries to push their beliefs on to me. And ya know, I am facinated by other's beliefs. I would not dream of telling them that they are wrong in what they believe. What makes it ugly is when they tear down my beliefs because theirs don't match mine.
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
31 Mar 09
I thankfully grew up in a rather liberal and bohemian upbringing as far as religion was concerned and even though my grandmother and mother were raised strict Catholics were also opened minded about other religions. I do get a "tad" irked though when I come across people who believed that only their religion is the way to seek salvation and will go to heaven....mmmm...will be rather lonely there
@tamarafireheart (15384)
•
22 Mar 09
Hi pye,
I am glad like you to have chosen my path in religion and went away from this so called christanity, and this man makes me spit, he should do what he is best known for and stay in the vatican and pray, he is a ignorant man.
Bright Blessings.
Tamara
xxxx
3 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Well I still like the concepts of Unity and Science of Mind, so haven't completely abandoned Christianity...just feel "better" with pagan/wicca...when I started studying wicca it felt like I came "home" since many of the beliefs were ones I had all along.
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
22 Mar 09
Nope need say no more!.
Always makes me mad to have a religion forced on people that are non beleivers to begin with the way the worship is there way.
That could fall back to Salem and the witch hunts people being accused of witchcraft when there was none just because another person would get mad at them and start hollering witch witch.
So they practice voodoo or juj what ever .
Only the mind can cause fear of things. and the people that do that stuff know that and work on the fears of the mind of other people!.
But that is what they beleive in.So let them be!
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Wpw--I'm going to have to look that angle up that the Salem Witch hunts were sparked by people "spaced" out on LSD...LOL
Okay just looked quick..did find an article about it..of course mass hysteria over "witchcraft" could still be to blame, but there does seem to be a connection with the ergot poisoining
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/ergot.htm
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@mariposaman (2959)
• Canada
23 Mar 09
Actually it is speculated that the Salem witch trial was brought on by LSD. One of the crops was rye and it was easier to grow in the swampy areas because of lack of trees and fertile soil. Ergot, a grain fungus that typically grows on rye, is where LSD is derived, so anyone consuming ergot fungus contaminated bread could go trippin'. It is speculated that is where the accusations of people transforming themselves into animals and devils came from these trippin' individuals.
2 people like this
@vanities (11395)
• Davao, Philippines
23 Mar 09
well..i guess we are free to choose on what kind of religion we think is good for us..im a Roman catholic by birth and by faith and maybe die with it...and i don't condemn other religion...its what we do that counts i guess.... and i had no further comments on the condemned thing that you have mentioned above...2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Yes we are all free to choose what path of religion that feels right to us..it just seems to go against the grain then it another religion is trying to force its ideas on another culture that I object to.
@ElicBxn (63235)
• United States
22 Mar 09
but that is what Christianity believes - so you do have to understand that a tradition of 2000 years isn't going to change just because you are offended by it
Now, forcing people to convert - and yes, they did used to do that - you can be offended by that, but they no longer advocate that practice
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Well they might not be "forcing" people to convert, but to me it still sounds like they are trying to cram their religion down people's throats..heck look at the various Christian sects going door to door trying to save people. LOL...they avoid doing that to me only cause I have a pentagram on my door....heehee..that keeps them away..gee wonder why?
1 person likes this
@systems (459)
• India
22 Mar 09
African land has become a battle ground for 2 religions which are trying to get a dominance in that region.. First, the christians and catholics converted them and destroyed most of the culture of that region.. Second, muslims are converting the remaining natives and converting the christians into muslims..
Tug of war.. In some of the countries, religious civil war is going on between the christians and muslims and both of those religions claims that their religion is the most peaceful religions..
Let peace be upon all the people and not just only on the prophets..
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
23 Mar 09
Please check the facts, Mulsims destroyed the early Christian Church in Africa then it was Muslims that converted much of Africa, with Christianity arriving again later. Now Islam is in serious decline in Africa, whilst Christianity increases from within
all the best urban
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
As I see it, the bottom line is that no religion should try to force itself on a culture and way of life that already has it's own beliefs, right?
@scarlet_woman (23465)
• United States
22 Mar 09
y'know,it's funny.my mom is roman catholic,and she calls the pope "embarassing"
(she liked john paul).i told her don't say that too loud,or you'll get excommunicated..
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
23 Mar 09
Yeah, John Paul wasn't a bad Pope. I don't have to worry about being excommunicated for saying that though since I'm not Catholic
2 people like this
@scarlet_woman (23465)
• United States
24 Mar 09
it's funny-she was threatened with that once before.
she seems to be too opinionated for them
2 people like this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
24 Mar 09
Hi pyewacket, I don't agree with anyone saying that you must come to us because we alone have the truth. There are many paths to the divine and while some Christians agree with that, there are many that do not. Conservative Catholics(of which this pope is certainly one) and evangelical protestants seem to be most vocal about this. I know very little about the witchcraft that is practiced in Africa and anything that invokes fear is certainly not good, but the Roman Catholic church has been known to use fear themselves where they can get away with it and evangelical protestants are no better when they dangle their listeners in imagination over the fires of hell. It is important to eradicate fear from the teachings of religion because it only thrives where there is ignorance and superstition. Blessings.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
5 Apr 09
Yes there are all too many religions, not just Catholic, but many sects of Protestantism that preach that their way is the only true way to salvation and heaven
@shewolf52002 (1214)
• United States
22 Mar 09
I will not say that I totally agree with Roman Catholics, there are some things that have been done in the past that I can not agree with. However it is a major part of Christianity to witness to other people and share the Gospel. Jesus went from place to place and taught all who would listen, he was not silenced by the religious leaders of an area or even his native religion which was Jewish. That is the model that all Christians are called to follow and that is why they feel it is their duty to convert others... NOT by force of course... that was never apart of the example set by Christ. Christians believe to the core of their being that life without God is no good and he11 is the result and their job is to tell as many people as possible.
And at least the Pope asked them to live in peace with those around them, I assume that means he was not condoning the fearful mobs?
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Yes but what gives it the right of a person of one religion to preach and try to cram their religion on others? This is how all the religious wars began, by forcing religion on another culture who already had their own beliefs. Christianity has one of the most bloody histories going in destroying people of other countries, religions, races and cultures. And what makes Christians believe that other peoples of other cultures DO have a religion and therefore their own concept of what God is? It goes back to the idea of how many Christian sects believe that ONLY their truths and beliefs are the right ones, which in my opinion is wrong.
@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
22 Mar 09
I think that it's more important to believe in something, rather than the vehicle you use to get there. No particular religion should be forced on anyone, and the only reason why it is, in my opinion, boils down to greed. Greed for power, property and riches.
Despite it's humble beginnings and it's many good points that still exist, Catholicism has plenty of darkness in it's past and present. From the Templars and crusades, it's gender bias that's so much a part of it's fabric, hording stolen artworks and protecting the pedophiles in it's priesthood...how can they condem other religions?
There are many wonderful religions, past and present and it's a sad thing that any of them disappear from the encroachment from a more more aggresive faith. The loss of history and culture cannot be replaced, and it's everybodies loss.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Yes, Christianity does have a very bloody past in it's "cause" to convert everyone to their beliefs. It always "amused" me when I'd be reading history that many of the wars were done under the banner of "God" or "Christ"--ironic no?
1 person likes this
@fluffleshark (810)
• Ireland
22 Mar 09
I agree with the pope that the belief in black witchcraft, (I say black witchcraft for want of a better term, because the witchcraft believed in in parts of Africa is very different to Wicca, which I think it a wonderful religion.), and the corresponding condemning people as witches, the witchfrat trials and lynchings and banishments and scapegoating are a source of immense suffering to generally very young children or the elderly. Basically scapegoating of the most defenseless members of society. And I agree that something urgently needs to be done about it. But I do NOT agree that the solution is foisting yet another religion on people! That's just hypocrisy.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
23 Mar 09
How true though I don't think any religion has the right to force itself on another culture that has it's own religion
1 person likes this
@irishmist (3814)
• United States
22 Mar 09
I could not agree with you more. Everyone has their own minds and beliefs and others should respect that, and not try to shove their religions down other peoples throats.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
25 Mar 09
I think that's what it boils down to, that many religions just plain don't respect other religions
@joyceshookery (2057)
• United States
22 Mar 09
Seriously, I don't believe that what some Africans do is within the scope of the Pope's oversight. If the missionaries attempt to christianize them, that's their calling. They aren't attempting to make laws.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
I don't particularly agree with missionaries either and their need to "save" people. To me it's still trying to cram religion down ones throat when the culture/people already have a belief...somehow just doesn't sound right to me
@Deea48 (1166)
• United States
23 Mar 09
For me it has always been why and how can any religion claim to be the only right one. that is putting God in a box, when if god is everywhere, wel that simply can not be done. I think God gave us so many choices so we can make our own choice as to what suite and feels right to us, it always saddens me when I hear, any of our religiouse leaders try to belittle or put fear into any people, when all his job is really is to unite, not divide.
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
I know I could never understand the "mind-set" of people believing that their religion is the one, only and true one as it seems very narrow-minded to me
@ulalume (713)
• United States
22 Mar 09
I agree with you there. The "pope" is just obnoxious, as people follow him like a God (though, most would deny this but it feels this way). I am not entirely sure why these religious icons get so much air time on the news, and the Pope basically gets his own country to rule. All I ever see of the pope is him condemning something un-biblical, but these people are happy with their ways. Witchcraft is no different than casting prayers to an invisible god. Both are not proven, so I don't think anyone on either side should be going out and pushing their beliefs on others. In general, I don't like these "holy" visits to Africa either; because so much of the world (especially the West) assumes that Africans are basically savages. As you pointed out in your post, we can see what occurs with that mentality: genocide. Just examining my country (USA), the original settlers came here to spread catholicism and christianity. What happened? The natives either converted or were slaughtered. This was not a secluded incident, either.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Isn't ironic how the original European settlers to America was fleeing their countries due to religious persecution and wound up being the biggest persecutors of all. And yes, that kind of gets me. Supposedly the idea is "ye shall have no other Gods before me" and yet Catholicism does view the Pope as some kind of "idol"
@jhayat (20)
• Pakistan
25 Mar 09
When you see a good thing, you promote it, Right? So you have the right to promote a good thing, how can you object to me doing the same, or the people who want to promote Christianity? They don't force it on anybody. What's wrong in listening to something, and not having a biased view about it. If it suits you, that's just fine, if it doesn't, well you don't have to follow it. My grandparents were Hindus, converted by the earlier Christian missionaries who came here, and I for one, am the happiest person they came into a religion that gives true spiritual peace. It may not work for you, and that's fine.
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I see no wrong in what the Pope said. We are warned against satanic forces, and ask me, I've seen families destroyed by satanic rituals which are performed in newly dug graves in grave yards which cripple, maim, destroy a person, his home, his business his life. I wish I had the video of one of the progammes on our chanel, it would shock you, and you would agree with me that the Pope was right in warning the Christians in Africa.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Sorry to burst your bubble jhayat, but if you really really read the history of Christianity, it's been one of the bloodiest in history, but it's whole concept of "promoting" it. The early Christians for instance, destroyed the Roman temples and raped the priestesses. More wars were created under the banner of Christianity than any other religion...Christianity does NOT have a glorious past..and while the means of converting or as you say promoting Christianity may not be as violent the means is still the same....trying to convince people that their religion is better than the original religion....I'm sorry but I just view this as really wrong
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
26 Mar 09
jhayat
I'm very knowledgeable about histories in general from Ancient Egyptian up to the Renaissance period. I literally have hundreds of my own books on every aspect of history...better than most libraries and I studied history extensively in college.
But yes, Christianity does have a bloody past. It has indeed created more wars under the banner of God and Christ, such as the Crusades, then you had the "Burning" times were thousands of people were burned to the stake for supposedly being heretics since they didn't conform and believe in the Christian church
And nope didn't read up on Christianity's persecution of Roman's from Roman sources but modern day historians. And zooming up to America's past. The Puritans for instance came to settle in America to escape persecution and wound up being the biggest persecutors of all destroying many Native American cultures to the point of extinction of many Native nations
@jhayat (20)
• Pakistan
26 Mar 09
I can only suggest that you read European History. The Romans you want to take up arms for persecuted Christians from Caesar, Claudius,Nero,Domitian,Trajan, Hadrian, the stoic emperor Marcus Aurelius,and this persecution persisted till A.D 303. Three hundred of persecutions by the Romans, proof- the catacombs in Rome, plus all the amphitheatres where Christians were put before lions, beheaded, pilloried, and what may have been done to the women, I don't dare to guess. Chritianity doesn't have a bloody past, it is Christianity who suffered a bloody past. Mind you, these historical chronicles have been written by the Roman historians, and NOT Christian historians.
Why should you or any one else presume to burst my bubble, I don't know. I am secure in what I believe, and have a keen eye for all that is going on. You are absolutely right holding on to what you believe, but you need to read about history a little more. Having a biased attitude towards any thing is not very healthy. If you are willing to listen to a factual arguement, we both will lose a very pertinent point in a discussion- Tolerance. Why should be so obsessed with the past?
1 person likes this
