The Rich Get richer
@morethanamolehill (1586)
United States
March 26, 2009 12:29pm CST
Simultaneously posted at
http://morethanamolehill.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/the-rich-get-richer/
I have been hearing a lot of what amounts to Hate Speech by the current administration and the Media. Hate Speech towards the wealthy of this country. We even have a Senator calling for the Executives of AIG to commit suicide. Many of them are receiving death threats for receiving bonuses that they may or may not have earned but are entitled to by contract. Barney Frank, the Clown Prince of the House of Representatives has said that he thinks the names of the threatened executives should be made public. Where is the hysteria similar to what was created when someone supposedly shouted threats of Obama at McCain/Palin rallies? This of course did not really happen, but the misplaced hysteria was real.
My reason for writing this post is similar to my "One Bad Apple" story. The Adage "The Rich get Richer and the Poor Get Poorer" Is a copout and a fallacy. In America anyway. This is "The Land of Opportunity". A place where anyone can get rich. Part of the reason that the Middle Class is shrinking is that They are moving into the Upper Middle Class and even the Wealthy Class. Of course I am using these terms arbitrarily since we do not have set "classes" in this country. The "Rich" can become poor and the "Poor" can become Rich. If you have read The book "The millionaire next door" Or "The art of selling to the affluent" By Matt Oechsli , Then you would know what I mean.
Now before anyone asks why I am defending the rich, Let me say that I am not defending a class of people. I am defending FREEDOM. If these politicians can take taxpayers money and give it without conditions to a huge corporation that probably had other options, then express Phony Outrage about how they spend it, Then what is stopping them from determining how much YOU and I make at our jobs. What happens when the government, Who already determines a minimum wage, decides to set a Maximum wage as well? All they have to do is get the Hoi Polloi stirred up into a frenzy over people that make more money than they do. Dehumanize the rich. There was another leader in the last century who used that same technique to convince young men to commit the most horrible atrocities against a class of people for the sake of public good.
Watch the other hand. When a magician makes a big flourish with one hand, it's the other hand you should be watching. That's where the real trickery takes place. When these politicians are going after "the Rich", It's your freedom that is the real target.
6 people like this
22 responses
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
26 Mar 09
It is called envy. You have what I want but I'm not smart enough or ambitious enough or too lazy to get it on my own so you should not have it or give it to me. this government scares me with the way they are railroading bills through congress. Just because the government or the media says it's so doesn't make it so.
I listen to Glenn Beck on the radio most days. yesterday he was saying that acorn loaded up some buses and took them to these CEO's home and calling the media and then having these people protesting. These men have a huge responsibility to their companies. I don't really know what went wrong. but I get so tired of people that envy the rich. Who do they think provides the jobs. If you've got money then you have earned it being smarter and working harder so why should we take it away from them? I believe that we the public caused the problems we are having today by doing just what the government is doing, spending money we don't have with credit cards and mortgages That we the public didn't take the time to read and understand..
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Thanks deebomb, It sounds like you "get it" No surprise that you listen to Beck. People call him crazy but only because he says the things they don't us to hear. The trouble is most of those on the left don't care about truth, Only agenda.
2 people like this
@bing28 (3795)
• Philippines
27 Mar 09
I can related with the rich become richer and the poor become poorer, that's quite true here in our country. The rich have all the capitals to run businesses and get all the oppurtunities to earn better. The poor however remain to where he stands, maybe planting crops, go fishing or any other job that would give them earnings just good for the family to survive a simple living. They become poorer however when a calamity happened destroying their crops losing their harvest and they have no other earnings to cover. They become poorer when they are working as laborers and employer instead of increasing their salaries add addtional charges thereby giving them much lesser income. Oppurtunities are open mostly to those who are rich so who becomes richer? Unlike in other countries, I heard at the U.S. even an apple picker or a dishwasher, a driver can become rich. Why? their salaries exceeds expenses as price of their commodities are low , that salaries are really high even for blue collar jobs. So, in the people's mind to work abroad is the solution but who can go abroad those who have relatives who could petitioned them. Others go on a salary deduction scheme but later you hear complaints of over deduction. Some people from the provinces sold their carabaos and cows and even their pieces of lots just to cover expenses in going abroad only to find out later they fell under fake recruiters, they lost their money and failed to fly. That's life however, some succeed others failed. I just hope someday life would be better for everyone, when the poor get rich and the rich stay richer.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Good post. It will turn on the light of realization for some. We all just need to keep trying to get through to people and eventually we will have a majority to use the system to elect better government.
2 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
27 Mar 09
yup I remember when there was a wage feeze back where in the 80s Dont know what it did. For some were making big wages at the time any how but min. wage was like $4.75 something like that.
I dont think these CEOs should have a contract that big in the first place.
did nt we see one on tv that now as mopping floors and making min. wage I bet he wish now that they had all calmed thier wages down some.
1 person likes this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
28 Mar 09
You bring up a good point Lakota12, Those wage freezes are the reason for such big bonuses today. Government cannot stop determined people from making money. They will find a way. And it's always the little guy that will pay the price, in layoffs, lower wages and higher prices.
Companies began offering to pay for health care because of wage freezes. They had to offer something to get better employees. Taxing the wealth out of people is not going to work. Increasing taxes on a large corporation will not create one single job for anyone except $1000.00 an hour accountants.
Buckminster Fuller's Foundation did a study of world wide wealth. They found that there was enough wealth in the world for every man woman and child to have a million dollars. But, If this wealth Were to be redistributed this way, Within three years the people with all the money now, Would have all of their wealth back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
26 Mar 09
I started a discussion about wealth envy the other day and I'm happy to say that most of my respondents did not resent the rich, only envied their wealth. Most understood that they got rich through their own efforts and are entitled to keep the fruits of their labors.
The Wealth Envy is a tool to divide us--divide and conquer, you know. The current administration is doing a very good job of dividing us and keeping us so busy putting food on the table and paying our bills that we pay little attention to their unconstitutional antics.
2 people like this
@PrarieStyle (2486)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Gosh, I've never hated the rich. I always figured they have it worse than I do. They probably have a hard time sleeping at night because they have more to lose. Besides, if they worked hard at educating themselves and/or worked their way up the ladder, than they deserve what they have.
I was pretty upset at AIG and the others who got bail outs but I don't feel as if the government should bully them or others.
It's sad times we live in, it's as if the world is turned upside down.
2 people like this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
27 Mar 09
That was some really good writing! I especially liked: "Watch the other hand. When a magician makes a big flourish with one hand, it's the other hand you should be watching. That's where the real trickery takes place. When these politicians are going after "the Rich", It's your freedom that is the real target." Wow. That is so true and quite a good way to think about it!
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
27 Mar 09
what freedom, how about thinking more clearly if you are bogged down in taxes as a middle class individual and that hard earned taxed money just bailed out aig and it was thought to be a good thing, until the government found out the bailout was gotten on false pretenses, it wasnt for keeping the company running it was for fat bonuses for fat cats that have more money then we will ever have and so greedy they even want ours to,
that is the classic case of the richer get richer and the poor get poorer, it can be no clearer than that.
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
29 Mar 09
they get lots of tax breaks, my partner is an accountant, believe me the rich get off much less in taxes than the average citizen.
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
28 Mar 09
Winterose, Our taxes are higher because of government greed, Not the rich. The top 5% wealthiest of the population already pay 80-90% of the taxes. And they really don't pay those taxes. WE DO. In fewer jobs, Lower pay and higher prices. Obama knows that. The Democrats know that. But since there are more poor people to vote for them and they are less educated and more easily fooled, The Democrats play the class warfare game to get votes. All the time they are shutting down our civil rights little by little.
But how many people would vote for Democrats if they were honest and said we are going to raise your taxes?? It's much easier to say we will raise taxes on the rich. and let the rich collect the taxes for the government instead. Understand??
1 person likes this
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
30 Mar 09
"they get lots of tax breaks, my partner is an accountant, believe me the rich get off much less in taxes than the average citizen."
Sure, The rich do get more tax breaks. They can hire better accountants. But they still pay a higher percentage of the tax revenue that comes into the Treasury. The Top 5% of income earners pay about 90% of the taxes. Even with all of their "tax breaks".
It's been shown time and time again that tax cuts stimulate the economy. Tax hikes hurt the economy. It's basic economics. The Bush tax Cuts brought record amounts of revenue into the Treasury. Obama has even said himself that he KNOWS that his plan will lower the revenue. But he does not care. that's because his objective is not fixing the economy. His objective is gaining more power and keeping it.
"Changes in marginal income tax rates cause individuals
and businesses to change their behavior. [i]As tax rates rise,
taxpayers reduce taxable income by working less, retiring
earlier, scaling back plans to start or expand businesses,
moving activities to the underground economy, restructuring
companies, and spending more time and money on accountants
in order to minimize taxes.[/i] Tax rate cuts reduce such
distortions and cause the tax base to expand as tax avoidance
falls and the economy grows.1 A review of tax data for high income
earners in the 1920s shows [b]that as top tax rates were
cut, tax revenues and the share of taxes paid by high-income
taxpayers soared[/b]"
From Tax and Budget Bulletin #13 Feb 2003
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0302-13.pdf
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
26 Mar 09
Jealousy and envy, that is what it is all about. Except for the vicious criminals, Mafia, the Russian Mafia, and the criminal organizations, most rich got that way by working hard, or by inheriting money and starting businesses, and investing it wisely. We have the same thing here in Canada. When we used to get the Winnipeg Free Press there was always these letters every week and sometimes twice a week by someone who complained that someone made more money then they did. Now the complainant was usually a laborer or someone who had not finished high school, but he was angry that a doctor or lawyer or even a tradesman with a journeyman's degree got $20 or more an hour and he wanted that person's salary lowered to the $7 or less he made an hour.
Once they start deciding on the maximum wage for someone to make, they will also decide on who is the exception. And if they go after the rich and the deserving wealthy, then forget about those they employ. These will be out of work, on welfare, or working at call centers.
Oh sorry, there are few call centers in the States. They are all in India.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
27 Mar 09
I wish people would not be like that and even though I do not like people phoning me to ask me if I wanted to --- I wish they were from here in Canada or in the United States if it is a firm based in both Canada and the States, because I could understand them, they would know what I was talking about, and if we needed something to be done, they would get the credit if they are on commission. And if I wanted something done, we could phone back and say "I was talking to Mary Smith about getting the furnace replaced,etc."(I used to work for a furnace company and they told us that we had to give our first name and the initial of our last name or a code number so that the customer could call back, because usually they had to go downstairs and check the furnace to see if it needed cleaning, etc. and return the call.) and she would get the commission for the call.
@whiteheron (4222)
• United States
2 Apr 09
It seems to me that the real gripe should be with the corporations who are doing their best to get all of the profits and to make the public hold the bag and carry all of the risks.
I think that isolated executives who have worked hard for only a bonus and not any salary income are perhaps not the best targets of the outrage.
I do think that corporations who are hiding their money in off shore accounts and refraining from paying their fair share of taxes, hiring offshore employees rather than US citizens while they are geting perks from the United States Government should be made to pay their fair share of taxes and also should be made to hire American workers.
I also think that it is not fair for multi-millionaires to pay less in taxes than the maids who clean and staff their houses... as was the case under the Bush administration... As the muli-millionaire had the ability to find and use the loop holes that the maid and the staffing coordinator did not have the ability to access or utilize.
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
2 Apr 09
Why do think that companies go offshore if not because other countries has such lower tax rates? How is raising their tax rates even more going to bring them back?
@Vladilyich1 (1454)
• Canada
29 Mar 09
Freedom is something that no longer exists in the United States and hasn't for quite some time. I don't know if you understand that the U.S. is totally bankrupt at the moment. The money that exists in circulation is valueless and has been for over 10 years. It is only a PERCVEIVED value, not a real value. The dollar used to be based on gold, but that was dropped by Richard Nixon and now it is only based on the stock market.
All of manufacturing in the US. has been shipped to China or other areas of Asia and the technical expertise has been shipped to India. America produces nothing of value at the moment. If the PRC decides to call in our debts or dumps its trillions of Treasury Bills on the market, the word "depression" won't come close to describing what the entire country will experience. Even Zimbabwe will have a better economy than America.
You may remember that the government CAN determine what you earn. Back in the 1970's, the government place a "wage and price freeze" on the country for about a year to try to avoid a recession. There were no raises allowed anywhere, but prices of goods remained steady. This can be done again very easily.
The fact that several companies that were handed billions of dollars turned around and gave them to individuals and foreign countries IS enough to anger all of us. If you check, there are many legal reasons that can nullify a contract. This could have gone through the courts and the companies would have won over the individuals that held the contracts. Congress knows this, but is doing nothing at all about it.
1 person likes this
@eztuner (450)
• United States
1 Apr 09
morethanamolehill, it is great to hear someone talking sense to people, lately there is not much of it. I think people are entrusting their whole future to the politicians, forgetting that is "People" that writes their own history. The World is going thru a change so fast that people are losing focus of what is really important. Our Societies are so worried with money issues that are misplacing the values that make us strong and give us continuance and opens the door for those that will follow us when is our time to leave. Freedom is the greatest gift our predecessors gave us and what are we leaving for the ones that will follow us? Now a day's what the majority is worry the most is how to keep what I have. This is totally valid. But the fight should be a bit more profound. Our Societies have been very permissive precisely with those politicians that have taken us to the point that we stand today. America is the shooting star for the rest of the World and as things are going is no wonder, the world is in crisis not just financially but of criteria.
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
27 Mar 09
Wow... are things really that bad in the USA? That's outrageos my friend. The rich have a right to what they have, either by earning it or by inheriting it from their family, in which case, their ancestors earned it. It's this sort of segregation that causes uprising and wars, and it's totally out of order! Wow... I just can't believe that is going on in your country! You're one of if not THE ruling country in the world, and I shudder to think with the amount of people you have there, what uproar this type of disharmony can cause. As you say, the politicians do ok out of things, and they're not protecting you, their electors... they're greedily seeking more power.
Here in England, we do have set classes although they're not as they were. However, we do have a working class a middle class and an upper class. We too are able to make it from poor to rich or from rich to poor. I've seen the latter happen without the help of politicians. You have to take your fate as it comes, or change your life so that you make it to where you want to be. Whatever... it all involves hard work, and that shouldn't be taken away from anybody!
I was responding to a discussion earlier where I mentioned that despite our two countries supposedly being democratic, we pay an awful lot of heed to dictators! That's all the power seekers are, and it's up to us to do something about it.
Brightest Blessings.
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
28 Mar 09
This is "The Land of Opportunity". A place where anyone can get rich.
This is always the first thing a good capitalist will say.
And it is crap.
If you are born poor... you only have 10 per cent of chance to make it out of poverty when you become an adult.
And America is the perfect place to demonstrate it.
In your land of opportunity... 40 per cent of the population lives in poverty.
I guess someone forgot to tell them about those opportunities.
I don't have anything against the rich.
But I do have a problem when the rich makes his money by exploiting the poor.
Those banks and motor companies being rescue with the taxpayer money... it is mostly the poor taxpayer who will foot the bill.
The banks lended more money than they should... to increase their revenu through interest rates. They were greedy and they made a mistake. Now we all have to pay for their mistake and their greed.
The Motor companies have refused constantly over the past 20 years to upgrade their plants in order to produce fuel efficient cars. Why? Because it would cost them money to do so. Now they cannot sell their cars because they consume too much gazoline. And they ask us to rescue them because they did not want to spend the money to rescue themselve.
So yes... Capitalism is great for some... but not so good for the little people footing the bill everyday of their life.
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
29 Mar 09
I am not asking for the rich to help the poor.
I am only asking for the rich to stop exploiting the poor.
Lets give the poor a fair day pay for a fair day work.
When it comes to the Unions protecting the workers in the motor industry. I have heard about those unions being over the top. And it is up to your government to do something about it like we did in Australia.
As for your Dad... it is up to the company to have proper security in place to prevent accidents. If you Dad's life has been ruined through an accident while working for that company... it is more than fair that the company foot the bill.
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
28 Mar 09
Please Aussies2007,
Your heart is bleeding all over the screen.
We have the Government we elected. There is no one to blame for high taxes except for "WE THE PEOPLE" and if WTP are too apathetic and uneducated to put down the PSP and shut off the TV and read a book, Then we have Naught to blame the Government or the rich. Sure the wealthy could help the poor and many do. You won't hear about them on the 6:00 news but they are out there. Every week in the Sunday paper are listing of dozens of classes to help people build wealth. many are free. But instead most people would rather put their Micky D's and hair weaves on plastic and pay for it later. or whenever. We do have plenty of problems in this country. Problems that are shared by many other countries around the world. But Capitalism is Not the problem. Capitalism, without so much Government Meddling, is the solution.
Regulation yes. But WTF do you think Barney Frank or Barack Obama, Or any other career politician knows about running a business???
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
28 Mar 09
"Those banks and motor companies being rescue with the taxpayer money... it is mostly the poor taxpayer who will foot the bill."
I agree completely with this statement. So do Many Americans. It's why all but three Republicans voted against it.
But Obama doesn't care what we think or want. He knows better than we do. That's why we elected him. Because we are too stupid to know what's best for us.
My dad worked for GM, And every summer they laid off most of the plant for two weeks for "Changeover". To refit the plant for the new model year. But he was injured on the job and has been on Full Medical Disability for more years than he worked there.
GM Pays more people that DO NOT work, than that do. That's what a good Union can do for the country. Thanks UAW. (End sarcasm)
@bjcyrix (6901)
• Philippines
5 Jun 09
I do agree with you that there is a gap between the rich and the poor and that the middle class are either going over to the upper class or the lower class. It would be a bit weird to see such extremes in reality. As in there are no more middle class but just the rich and the poor. That would definitely be such a sorry sight.
I am aware at what you were suggesting with your last paragraph. Its been happening in this country's government ever since I can remember. I just dont know what to do about it. I sure hope that maybe one day someone can step in and break the system. Well, maybe not break it but reform it or something.
@dropofrain (1167)
• India
27 Mar 09
I think you are right in your views that the rich are getting richer and richer. As we talk about politicians they are the ones who are getting rich day by day.
@PrarieStyle (2486)
• United States
5 Jun 09
Well good for the rich than, that's how capitalism works. We all have an equal chance to get rich in Ameirca too. If we lower the playing field for the rich, we also lower it for ourselves.
The only rich people I have a problem with are the ones like Berny Madeof and politicians who make being a politician a career...
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
5 Jun 09
Bernie Madoff is a criminal. Being rich is not a crime. Unfortunately it's not a crime to be a career politician. But they keep getting re elected. The problem is when a conservative commits a crime in office he is generally given the boot.(Mark Foley) When a Liberal commits a crime he or she is re elected.(Wm. Jefferson)
