Conservative Radio Host Is Waterboarded, Says it's TORTURE!

@anniepa (27238)
United States
May 22, 2009 8:29pm CST
"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke. It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture," is what WLS radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller who nearly drowned as a child said after undergoing water-boarding on Friday morning. Mancow had hoped to prove water-boarding didn't constitute torture but discovered after only 6 seconds it's no joke. http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Mancow-Takes-on-Waterboarding-and-Loses.html Any thoughts? Annie
2 people like this
13 responses
@jerzgirl (8030)
• Gloucester City, New Jersey
23 May 09
Hard line right wingers will say it's only because of his childhood trauma that he felt it was torture. I'd almost be willing to place money on it. I even know Democrats who say we should do to them worse than they do to us. They just don't get that we HAVE to behave better than the rest. It's not an option to be as bad as or worse than they are. Doing wrong because someone else does wrong doesn't make that wrong right. Don't we say to kids, "If Johnny jumped off that cliff, would you?" Exactly the same thing with greater consequences.
• United States
24 May 09
Im with her 'War doesn't determine who is right--only who is left." Betrand Russell
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
Good point, jerzgirl. I thought we lefties were the ones who have no morals or principles and don't care about what's right or wrong! Whomever made the decisions in the previous Administration just made up the rules as they went along. Their stories are changing at this very moment, I'm sure. Didn't it start out with "We don't torture"? Then it changed to "Waterboarding isn't torture", then it was, "Well, it's torture but it was still legal"; finally it became, "It may not have been legal but it WORKED"! Annie
@jerzgirl (8030)
• Gloucester City, New Jersey
24 May 09
The only thing is, they have YET to show where torture (aka "enhanced terrogation") has given us ANY valid information. Some claim that we were able to stop an attack in California, LA specifically - an attack that even the mayor of LA was never told about. They never made any arrests or anything, so how do they know it was stopped? If it existed at all, it could still be in the planning stages, right? It's all a bunch of hogwash - not that we will never or could never be attacked again, but that torturing someone will give good info. Trust me - I promised my now-ex a lot of things as he was pounding on me and kicking me just to make him stop. I didn't mean a word of it!!!
• United States
23 May 09
I'm glad this guy actually stepped up, did it, and realized that it is torture. Sean Hannity has been saying for months now that he will be waterboarded for charity, but that to me is like being whipped for charity, it just doesn't make sense. Hopefully more conservatives will realize that this is torture and it's wrong.
@jonesy123 (3950)
• United States
23 May 09
Yes, waterboarding is a form of torture. Who denies that just thinks it is like holding your breath under water. However, we need some method to extract information. We can't just have them sit down for coffee and a nice chit-chat. We did get useful information even to prevent further attacks on US soil. Of course the current administration conveniently doesn't want to release what information was obtained through these methods, just information that it was done. Wonder why? Was it effective after all? If you are against using methods like that to get information, how do you suggest we should get it quickly and efficiently. I'm sorry, sitting down, talking, gaining their trust... I know I have read that stuff but it doesn't work, not fast anyway, and not with those in the know.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
If the information hasn't been released how do you know we "did" get useful information to prevent further attacks on US soil? Also, even those who have said it's worked have said it took over 100 times to get any info so that's certainly not fast. Annie
@jonesy123 (3950)
• United States
23 May 09
Lol, do you think those terrorists just did the 9/11 attacks and called it a day? There have been loud calls for release of more documents from those who were privy to the information and know the results. Obama only released what suited him. Just enough to proof it had been done. (Also just enough to get Pelosi into hot water, but that's better suited for another discussion). Anyhow do you seriously think they did all that and have nothing to show for it? Sure, waterboarding doesn't give immediate results. You just dunk the head under water once until they think they can't hold their breath any longer and voila they spill the beans. It does get done numerous times in one session. You reach 100 fairly quickly. It's a matter of maybe a couple of days. The chit-chat method, if you finally gain their trust, may yield results several months down the road, often it takes over a year, if you get any useful information, and that's usually on those who have very little information to share to begin with. How timely do you think that information will be? As somebody else already stated, those of our people who may find themselves in those situations are well trained in order to not give away any secret information. They know the techniques, have felt most of them. Do you think the enemy doesn't train their people the same way? You have to be tough to get the info. Keeping a nation safe sometimes requires to get your hands dirty. I can only hope that if push comes to fall Obama is willing to get the info the fastest way possible. I rather have a terrorist tortured than thousands of innocent lives taken. Do you think any of those terrorists cared that children were killed in those attacks? Do you think they would squabble as much about how best treat prisoners?
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
"Anyhow do you seriously think they did all that and have nothing to show for it?" Possibly, yes. They didn't get the one thing Cheney most wanted to get and that was the link between Iraq and 9/11. I guess the real question is did they get anything useful and could they have gotten it in other ways. "As somebody else already stated, those of our people who may find themselves in those situations are well trained in order to not give away any secret information. They know the techniques, have felt most of them. Do you think the enemy doesn't train their people the same way?" You just said it yourself! Of course the enemy trains their people the same way. Believe me when I say I don't mean this as praise but the terrorists have to have a great deal of courage and determination to do what they do. They don't really CARE if they're ultimately killed but they sure won't have a problem with giving false information to stop the pain and suffring. Annie
@hotsummer (10449)
• Philippines
23 May 09
this is just crazy. i was baffled by the comments on that link. mostly they don't consider it torture. cause torture constitues subjecting a person to die. that is really unbelievable. it does not matter if the person will live to tell his story. the fact that he suffered throughout the ordeal s a torture in itself though there is no any trace of the ordeal. this is really unbelievable that even one person said that only high trained person does administer this to a person and it is not torture. ] this may not kill a persno but this is truly a torture, a painful experience way beyond any person can endure. this should not be practiced. why are they anyways promoting or practicing this horrible joke or whatever they consider this thing.
2 people like this
@iriscot (1290)
• United States
23 May 09
Denigh, denigh, denigh...Repub policy... Hmmm... Maybe Cheney ought to take his turn at it.
@coolcoder (2020)
• United States
23 May 09
Don't you mean, "Deny, deny, deny"?
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
That chicken hawk? He'd run off to his "undisclosed location" quicker than you can even imagine! Annie
1 person likes this
@iriscot (1290)
• United States
23 May 09
You're right cool, please excuse my misspelling.
@Bd200789 (2994)
• United States
23 May 09
I hope other conservatives learn from this.
1 person likes this
@coolcoder (2020)
• United States
23 May 09
I'd love to see if Keith Olbermann could man up and do the same, but I highly doubt he would.
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
"Conservatives" learn...are you kidding...lol? "I'd love to see if Keith Olbermann could man up and do the same, but I highly doubt he would." Why should he? He hasn't been saying it's not torture and that it's no big deal! I'll readily admit I'm not woman enough to do it. Annie
• United States
24 May 09
Keith Oldbermann is so full of hot air, frankly I cant even watch the network anymore
• United States
24 May 09
I read the title to this article and thought "Well, duh!" Nearly drowning is a terrifying experience, as survivors can tell you. Waterboarding is only simulated drowning, but the victim cannot defend him/herself because they are tied down. Honestly, I put this treatment up there with the barbaric habit of cutting off fingers or putting bamboo under the nails. It is every bit as frightening and painful.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
I agree. With this guy he knew he wasn't going to actually be drowned but that didn't stop him from feeling the terror. Someone who is being interrogated by waterboarding doesn't know if they're going to be killed or not, they have no "panic button" to push or something to throw when they've had enough. Waterboarding may not cause "pain" in the literal sense as having a bone broken or your fingernails pulled off but it's still a form of pain and it definitely causes suffering I would consider inhumane. Annie
@xfahctor (14131)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
23 May 09
Guess he'll have to change his radio name to lil'girlcow now. what a pusss.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
From the clip I saw of him doing this I wouldn't call him a "pusss"! Of course I AM a girl and this girl isn't about to volunteer to do that any time soon...lol! Annie
@coolcoder (2020)
• United States
23 May 09
If it kept this country safe for eight years after 9/11, hey...it should definitely continue. Millions of American lives have been saved because of the information that waterboarding got out of these terrorists. This is the only language that these people understand--dialogue isn't going to work. You can't just sit at a table across from our enemy and think that talking things over is going to work, because it isn't.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
There is no evidence that it kept this country safe. It was used to collect false information to justify the Iraq War not to save lives. Sure, waterboarding and other forms of torture may get someone to talk but that doesn't mean they're going to tell the truth. They'll tell you what you want to hear in order to make the torture stop. Annie
1 person likes this
• United States
23 May 09
LOL, I read this and was going to post something about it. I thought it was so funny to hear that he couldn't even last as long as the average person. He thought this was going to be a walk in the park, and it ended up with thim looking like a fool. The only sad part is that someone like Hannity, or Rush didn't do this to prove the point. I guess we should give Mancow some credit for doing what his louder competitors don't have the balls to do.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
I give Mancow a lot of credit for doing it and for admitting he'd been wrong. I have a suspicion that neither Rush nor Hannity, IF there ever could be any way to convince them to do it, would never EVER admit the truth no matter what happened. It would be covered up or faked somehow. Annie
1 person likes this
@missybal (4492)
• United States
23 May 09
Well I can tell you that according to an aunt and father in law who were water boarded in the marines in order to prepare them for just in case they were ever subjected to intense Interrogation by the enemy, they said it was no big deal. The U.S. have waterboarded their own men and women in training including other advance Interrogation methods. It all depends on the person how tough they are. Guess Muller is a softy. Now for me because I have almost drowned loads of times and still can't swim today yes it would be hard on me... but I know for my husband it would be nothing... but he does deep sea diving and was formally training for special forces in the military before injuring his knees. Once again it's all about someones opinion. I'm greatful that the THREE terrorists who actually under went waterboarding were as weak as this radio host. Saved thousands of American lives. As for defining it as torture... opinion and definition are two very different things and weather you like it or not this was legally not torture. Torture must have disabling lasting affects on those it is used against under the definition then and much care was taken to perform the method without lasting injury to the subject much like with our military men and women. When you have a man like al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed, and he proudly states he “decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl,”... and when questioned when the next U.S. attack will be and says “Soon, you will know", you do what you have to do and I'm not sorry one bit.
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
If it's NOT torture why have we prosecuted people for it as far back as World War II? I'm afraid I don't believe anybody who was really waterboarded as they showed this radio host being if they say it was "no big deal". I also don't believe "thousands of American lives" were saved by this. Khalid Sheik Mohammed gave the most information BEFORE being waterboarded. Annie
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
23 May 09
"If it's NOT torture why have we prosecuted people for it as far back as World War II?" Because what the Japanese did during WWII was completely different. They would pour water into a person's mouth until their stomach was bloated and then jump on their stomachs forcing them to vomit. It was a far cry from pouring water over a wet towel and it did serious physical harm.
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
23 May 09
Did you happen to see "Mancow" getting waterboarded, Taskr? It wasn't quite as you described. It may not have been quite as horrid as what you described the Japanese to have done but it was far from harmless. Is our new standard that if there's something that could be worse it's fine for us to do it? Annie
1 person likes this
@Kowgirl (3491)
• United States
24 May 09
We have seen kids do this to their friends at the pool as a joke. Some strangled on the water but was up and chasing after the ones who did it. If it works and it can save our country from having a war on this land I say, go for it. They wouldn't hesitate to do worse to us. Why spare them? It's when we become lenient with these terrorist and they see that we are lenient they will strike us down. No questions asked. If you think you can change them to our ways by running your mouth as Obama wants to do, you may as well give up.
@anniepa (27238)
• United States
24 May 09
It seems like most of you who have responded to this discussion are making the assumption that this technique was tremendously successful and that we got all the information we wanted by doing this and no other method would have worked as well. There is a lot of evidence that this is not a reliable method of interrogation and that it was used not to learn of impending attacks but to find a link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda to justify the Iraq war. The implication is they didn't really care that the information was likely false because when someone is being waterboarded he will likely say what the interrogators want to hear whether it's the truth or not. Does anyone here think that was acceptable? Annie
@Smith2028 (797)
• United States
26 May 09
I am sure to get lots of interesting responses for this one... Torture or not, it is still a practice that kept us safe, a practice that memos show obtained valuable information and most importantly, a practice that should be left alone. Here are some of the reasons why. 1. The terrorists have had no reservations in beheading innocent civilians who's only offense was being an American Citizen. This isn't a conventional war. It never has been and it never will be. While I will never condone a war that completely disregards the laws of war, I can not sit by and scream for proper treatment of those who have no regard to killing us. I will protect our citizens and our soldiers every time. 2. The techniques have kept us safe. Since the attacks in 2001, there has not been another attack on the homeland. However we obtain information, our safety and security have to take precident. 3. If someone is willing to die for their religion, no amount of ordinary questioning will give them to surrender, or give information to us. Period. NO questions asked.