Is This TREASON?

@anniepa (27240)
United States
July 10, 2009 12:21am CST
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/only_osama_can_save_us_from_ob.php I've been trying to find a transcript from this show but you can see the video by visiting the link above. Glenn Beck's guest Michael Scheuer said, "The only chance we have as a country right now is for bin Laden to detonate a major weapon in U.S." Glenn Beck nodded in apparent agreement. Are these two men guilty of treason? I think so! Annie
1 person likes this
19 responses
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
10 Jul 09
The short answer.....no. Though Michael Scheuer might be guilty of an ignorant statement. Beck is just guilty of having a show and conducting an interview as I heard NOTHING from him other than asking Michael Scheuer a question. But as to Scheuer's answer....it was as appaling to me in that he believes we need an attack for us to demand more "protection"....the LAST thing we need are more freedom robbing "protections" the last thing I WANT is more freedom robbing protections, we've been protected right in to an orewellian novel. The only thing I want more protection from is my own government....from MORE government.... This is far from treason though, just a really dumb statement on the part of Michael Scheuer. Beck isn't nodding in agreament, in fact, I'm suprised he didn't call the guy out on the more government protection line, beck dropped the ball on that one...something I emailed him on by the way after the show first aired.
2 people like this
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
10 Jul 09
And will you stoip getting your Beck from Olberman....just watch the show...yes I know thats exactly where this came from....his worst person segmant...July 8th.
2 people like this
@Taskr36 (13923)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Being a libertarian, I really expected Beck to call him out on the "protection" bit. I agree that he totally dropped the ball on that one. Either way, it was a dumb statement, but one that others have said before. It's not treason unless he assists or encourages such an act.
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I guess maybe it wasn't treason in the truest sense of the word but can we agree that this kind of speech on national TV can be dangerous to our national security? By the way, yes, I first learned of this interview on Countdown, I'll admit to that, but whenever I see something on an admittedly slanted show I check it out further before jumping to conclusions. In other words, Keith and I DO agree quite a bit of the time but HE doesn't form my opinion and I don't accept his word as gospel. Annie
@jerzgirl (8058)
• Gloucester City, New Jersey
10 Jul 09
OMFG!!! Check out Jon Stewart's reaction ( http://vodpod.com/watch/1844719-the-daily-show-with-jon-stewartosama-bin-laden-needs-to-attack-america ). Sadly, he's so on the money about the priorities, it isn't funny!!!! They need to be stopped, taken off the air entirely, never again permitted to publicly speak because they are inciting not just violence, but terrorism!!! And, I wouldn't put it past one of their rabid followers (I know not all on the right are rabid followers) to attempt to follow through with a 'fake' Osama attack. Just like someone on the inside set loose anthrax to "show" us we needed tighter controls by government - they sacrificed a few to gain a political advantage. I'm sure it could happen again with these ship-sinking big mouths!!
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I'm so mad at myself, I always watch Jon Stewart but I missed that night and I can see it but I can't hear it online! You know, the thing with Glenn Beck is awhile back he was railing about people doing things because of what they see on TV and in movies and hear in music, etc. but then not long ago he did a complete 180 regarding the murder of Dr. Tiller and the Holocaust Museum shooting. I guess if he does it or advocates it on his show that's fine. I have no doubt there are some crazies that watch his show faithfully and hang onto his every word who would think they were "saving America" by trying to pull something off like that. Annie
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
10 Jul 09
It's been my experience that both sides have their crazies. Makes you wonder who really is in charge of change in America, doesn't it?
• United States
10 Jul 09
Two party system looks like to me, You have the LEFT hand and the RIGHT hand of the PUPPET
• United States
11 Jul 09
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michael-scheuer-fox-americas-only-ho Since your link seems to start in the middle of the discussion I tried to find one that gave more of the conversation. I hope I was successful. In listening to the discussion, it sounded to me as though Michael Scheuer was saying that the United States government is not doing what it should to protect the borders and that the American people don't seem concerned enough to insist the government do a better job, and that the only thing that will make us wake up to the danger our country is in is for another attack like 9/11. I don't think he or Beck is wishing it would happen, but that that seems to be the only thing that will induce some action on all our parts.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
12 Jul 09
I can't hear it online but I saw the clip on TV. It doesn't make any difference to me what Scheuer's problem with the U.S. government is or what he thinks we need "saved" from, in my opinion what he said was over the top and Beck should have called him out on it. Possibly I and the many others online were inaccurate to use the word "treason" but I still feel it was a dangerous thing to say. Annie
• United States
13 Jul 09
Sometimes people need to be slapped in the face with the truth. Maybe in Michael Scheuer's opinion, that's what this country needs. Based on the flack he's gotten because of his comments, it would have been much easier on him to have said nothing and what will be will be. I remember after 9/11 people were saying that the terrorist had been planning their attack on the USA for years. Doesn't it make sense that they'd attack when our guard is down? If we don't heed Scheuer's warning, what's to stop them or another terrorist group from doing it to us again. Instead of condemning the man, we ought to listen to his warning.
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
11 Jul 09
The video starts out with Glen Beck saying, "So you have seen this," seen what? Are they saying the Obama administration is not making any effort to protect the United States from our enemies? This is what it says treason is in the United States: Article Three of the United States Constitution Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." A contrast is therefore maintained with the English law, whereby a variety of crimes, including conspiring to kill the King or "violating" the Queen, were punishable as treason. In Ex Parte Bollman (1807), the Supreme Court ruled that "there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war". Under English law effective during the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, there were essentially five species of treason. Of the five, the Constitution adopted only two: levying war and adhering to enemies... It's a shame you can't find a transcript of the whole conversation, but going by what the Constitution says and what I heard, I'd have to say that this wasn't treason. All Michael Scheuer was saying was the government will do nothing to protect us until something is done to us first.
2 people like this
• United States
11 Jul 09
"All Michael Scheuer was saying was the government will do nothing to protect us until something is done to us first." EXACTLY!!
1 person likes this
@irishidid (8732)
• United States
10 Jul 09
No, by definition it is not treason. It would have been if Scheuer had said he is aiding bin laden or violated his alliance with the country. It was only an opinion, a bad one, but not treason.
2 people like this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Totally misconstrued. No news here. Please move along.
1 person likes this
• United States
10 Jul 09
How can you say that this is misconstrued??????????? The man who speaks in the video, on Glen Beck's show, talks about Osama Bin Laden detonating a huge bomb, saying that is the "only chance we have" how the hell can you misconstrue something that horrible, offensive to those who lost family in the 9/11 attacks, and so plainly put??????????????????? You are so bold to say that supporting a terrorist attack is no news? What is wrong with you?
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
10 Jul 09
You're right about one thing - Glenn Beck having no compassion for 9/11 families isn't news, that's for sure. Remember this gem from 2005? "You know, it took me about a year to start hating the 9/11 victims’ families. It took me about a year. Um, and I had such compassion for them and I really, you know, I wanted to help them, and I was behind — let’s give them money, let’s get them started, and all of this stuff. And I really didn’t — all the 3,000 victims’ families, I don’t hate all of them, I hate about, probably about ten of them. But when I see 9/11 victim family, you know, on television, or whatever, I’m just like, ‘Oh, shut up.’ I’m so sick of them. Because they’re always complaining. And we did our best for them. And again, it’s only about ten." You can read more here: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200509090003 Annie
@irishidid (8732)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I agree with Glenn on the 911 families. We gave them money that didn't deserve. Yes, I do have sympathy for their loss. I just don't think money should have been given to them. The amount they got should have been whatever their personal insurance and the insurance carried by the towers. Nothing more. You know what the Oklahoma Cities parents got for the loss of their babies? Nothing.
2 people like this
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I think I have to agree with X. But, I do believe that if this were a Democrat saying this there would be protests and people calling for those 2 people's jobs. There is a complete double standard. I see that one respondent talked about Fraken I didn't hear those comments before today and I suppose that I would have to know the whole story but, if that's what he said than he is right and he should not be a Senator. I am fully against anyone talking about killing people and waging war, with some rare exceptions.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13923)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I really couldn't see any hatred from Beck in that. His guest was a complete moron, but Beck himself didn't really say anything objectionable. The only thing he did wrong was that he failed to challenge the guy's statements.
@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Beck talking about hating the victims of 9/11 or their families, is hateful. But, if this was Keith or Chris saying these things than they would be UnAmerican, teasonist, or whatever other euphemism one would like to use. It would also be a daily topic here on mylot and FOX News. But, since Beck said it, allowed his guest to say it without questioning it, it's all good.
1 person likes this
• United States
11 Jul 09
Oh yes and may I add this source that I found, its Glen Beck talking, the one where he talked about hating some of the 9/11 victims families, but also listen at the end where he demeans the victims of Hurricane Katrina, and tell me if anyone here can defend Glenn Beck, listen to it please and tell me who can defend him????? He calls the people who didn't leave New Orleans before the hurricane hit, "scum bags"....who can defend this insensitive pr1ck???
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@andy77e (5165)
• United States
11 Jul 09
No. Treason is the specific *act* of betraying ones country. They are neither trying to procure a weapon, nor aiding a terrorist organization. Nor were they advocating the overthrowing of the American government. Further, they were not actually advocating the action in question. They merely were stating that it would likely take such an act to wake people up to the reality of terrorism, and force government to do what is required to stop it. Ironically, they were both being patriotic in their comments. They were saying they want government to protect America, but unfortunately, they likely will not unless forced to by a catastrophic attack by a terrorist group. But regardless, they were not committing treason.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
12 Jul 09
PATRIOTIC in their comments? Saying the only thing that can save America is for something to happen that would obviously kill many Americans is PATRIOTIC? I guess I'm no more clear on the definition of that word than I was about "treason". So what do you and they think our government should do that they're not doing to protect America? We already have the Patriot Act, which should be repealed. Beck and company just about have strokes if "Homeland Security" and their report on "extremists" is even mentioned so that's one way in which they don't want to be protected. Please help me out here and thanks for responding. Annie
@andy77e (5165)
• United States
12 Jul 09
It was not patriotic because they wanted something to happen that killed Americans. The patriotic part that they wanted government to take actions to protect America, and take the terrorist threat seriously. The said unfortunately it would likely require a large scale terrorist attack to get that through their heads. Put another way, let us say you are trying to teach your child not to run around outside without shoes on because there could be some broken glass that could cut up their feet. You yell and tell them constantly, but they do not listen. Eventually you realize your child will simply have to find out the hard way, and step on some broken glass, to figure out they need to wear shoes. You are not suggesting you want to harm your child with broken glass. Nor would you be happy when it happened. But in order for the kid to learn the lesson, you know it must happen. This is what Glenn Beck and company are saying. They don't want it to happen. But unless government figures this out, it will happen.
1 person likes this
@andy77e (5165)
• United States
12 Jul 09
I take issue with the rude manor in which you speak to others. I may disagree completely with her views. That's no excuse to treat her poorly. If everyone would strive to be better people, we'd have a much better country to live in.
@N4life (851)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I just find it amusing that the right was always calling the left nut jobs when Bush was president. I agree with whoever said that if this were a Dem with a statement like this the "other side" would be in an uproar. I don't think it is treason but this Beck character cares about nothing other than ratings and popularity and there is minority of Ameicans drink his kool-aid. Why were so many against Obama yapping about everyone worshipping him when they have people like this on cable that they will defend to the end no matter what they say. It is called, if I don't agree with him,then everyone else is just kool aid happy, but if I agree with him it is because he is correct syndrome.
@Taskr36 (13923)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Then why wasn't there any uproar when Al Franken made jokes about helping al quaeda assassinate the president? Not only was it swept under the rug, democrats ELECTED HIM as a senator.
@N4life (851)
• United States
10 Jul 09
If it was a joke I find it different than what happened on Beck's show. Anyway there seems to be a bit of an uproar about everyhing Franken does so I'm not sure how to reply to that. I just get tired of shows like Becks all of a sudden coming out and trying to act like they are the opressed when their politicians have had plenty of opportunities,people they support. Now all of a sudden a Presdent they do not support is in office and they act like they no longer like America. I call it as I see it also, and Beck/O-Wrinkly/Rush are all just spinning and serving a diffeent brand of kool-aid.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
12 Jul 09
Taskr, I'd guess there was no "uproar" when Franken made what was apparently a very tasteless joke because it wasn't on a "popular" news show on the "top" cable news network and it was a JOKE (good, bad, ugly or just plain tasteless, it was for all intents and purposes a joke) and not part of what was allegedly a serious discussion on what is needed to "save" America. Bush apparently didn't "pull a Palin" and make a fuss when this joke was told so the whole world wsn't aware of it...lol! Annie
• United States
11 Jul 09
Oh, Annie! How far do people think their first Amendment rights take them? This is way over the line. I do think it's treasonous, and promoting the downfall of the government and the country!
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
12 Jul 09
That's just it, we have this right to free speech which nobody wants to give up even a little of it, as it should be, but with rights shouldn't there also be responsibility? Shouldn't these guys have been responsible enough to know saying such things is potentially dangerous? I think someone posted that what's said on a TV show isn't going to cause Bin Laden to detonate a weapon in a major U.S. city but what about the unstable viewers of Beck's show who may think "Hey, if I blow something up and they THINK it was Bin Laden" I'll be a hero for saving America"? Sure, it's far-fetched but anything is possible today and nothing should be taken for granted. Annie
1 person likes this
• United States
12 Jul 09
Annie, The reason I think it's treason is that we've seen so many sick people using such things as this as an excuse to go off and do the worst of deeds. The FCC has rules about just how free speech is, and the public outcry should get these people in line. I am extremely liberal, and I don't think personal rights should be restricted, but when you're on the air, there really are limits. You place yourselves in people's homes and cars and iPods, and thereby, the influence you have should be considered.
11 Jul 09
If that is genuine then it is a disgrace!
1 person likes this
• United States
10 Jul 09
I was actually getting a coffee from Dunkin Donuts the other night, it was 11:30 or 12am and I was oh, can I say, little surprised to see FOX News on both of the TV's, and it was Bill O'Reilly and a guest and they were talking JUST DIRT man, that man never ceases to suprise me but can their really be comparisons on that network?? They said Joe Biden was on hallucogenics and he has no idea what he's talking about or doing--hmm, I'd like to know where they come with their big Egos and what they know that I don't know
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@ZephyrSun (7385)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Well Ted, atleast we had the last 8 years to prepare for Bushisms.
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@Taskr36 (13923)
• United States
10 Jul 09
And your hypocrisy continues... So this guy says that the only way our government would protect us is if bin Laden launches an attack and you call that treason? Ok, I disagree, but let's compare this to something you wholeheartedly approve of. Al Franken makes jokes about how he'd like to help al Quaeda assassinate the president and not only do you see nothing treasonous about it, you WANT HIM TO BE A SENATOR.
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
10 Jul 09
actually, if one wanted to press the issue, depending on Franken's exact words, it could be considered sedition.
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@Taskr36 (13923)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Well I saw it and I don't know if I'd call it sedition since he was trying to be funny, but it definitely walked a fine line. I can't seem to find the video right now, but he was joking with a deaf man using sign language about how he'd help al quaeda get in through the kitchen so they could assassinate Bush. Just to expand on my original post. Here is the definition of Treason. 1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign. 2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state. 3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery. Sedition is any act, writing, speech, etc., directed unlawfully against state authority, the government, or constitution, or calculated to bring it into contempt or to incite others to hostility, ill will or disaffection; it does not amount to treason and therefore is not a capital offense. There could certainly be an argument for Franken's words to be sedition, but absolutely NOTHING that could amount to treason on the part of Beck or the guy on his show.
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
10 Jul 09
Taskr, I'm not a hypocrite. If I had more time to spare I'd post the definition of hypocrite but for now I'll just use some synonyms - John ensign, Mark Sanford, Newt Gingrich. I've already pretty much conceded that maybe what Beck and his guest aren't technically guilty of treason but they certainly could be guilty of inciting violence. Regarding Franken's tasteless joke, or at least as you describe it it was certainly tasteless and NOT FUNNY, I never saw it but there are lots of comics who cross the line from time to time. I've seen the different sides of Al Franken - the comedian, the writer and the serious political candidate. When he's being the latter he leaves the comic at home. Annie
• United States
10 Jul 09
It's amazing how many people on this Lot don't know the difference between treason and ...oooohhh what's that other one ....ummmm Oh Yeah FReE SpEEcH The government's No1 purpose is to protect these borders. "...Provide for the common Defence..." Sound familiar. Obamaman has SWORN to do this. HE IS NOT. THAT is TREASON. "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
• United States
10 Jul 09
"only chance we have" So what does he mean???
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@Arkie69 (2156)
• United States
11 Jul 09
Morethanamolehill, (I like that name), Right on the money. Obamaman has SWORN to do this. HE IS NOT. THAT is TREASON. Not only is it treason but Obama's actions so far have been against everything we have ever stood for as a people. Obama is a lot more dangerous to the American People and our way of life than Bin Laden is. Art
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
12 Jul 09
[b]Arkie (& Molehill), You're both correct. BO is more dangerous to the USA than Bin Ladin ever could be, as the latter has no power HERE, while BO has more power than he's supposed to have, according to the Constitution, which he is swiftly shredding (which makes HIM a traitor!). I note how several BO & Franken supporters here want to blow off any "jokes" Franken made that were awful & support the Obama-ites fully, to the point that disagreement is "treason," & MUST BE HUSHED UP. They haven't understood the FIRST THING about the right of Free Speech. It means to be able to say EVEN DISGUSTING things without retribution! And by the way, it was designed ESPECIALLY FOR the protection of political speech. It's no surprise the current PTBs want to pass a LAW that silences (CENSORS) Conservative speech! Frankly (no pun intended), I don't even want Al Franken censored. Know why? Because his speech reveals what an imbecilic, hateful man he really is. If he were forced to hide his true colors, he'd probably rise even higher in the ranks. But then, scum does rise to the top. (I've never claimed not to call anyone names. I do it only when people have earned the appellation, however, not just to be doing it. If I call someone a liar, a traitor, a thief, of whatever, you can be sure I can BACK UP that "name.") Maggiepie "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?"[/b]
@Meljep (1668)
• United States
10 Jul 09
This comment seemed to be tongue in cheek - or sarcasm. If someone asked them if they really meant this they would probably apologize that it was taken literally. Maybe emailing them and asking about it would be a good thing?
• United States
10 Jul 09
Well I don't think that people who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack of 9/11 would appreciate the sarcasm of this offensive jacka$$...so many people were going crazy over a joke about Palin, where the hel1 is the uproar over this????????????? a joke or not, it still is horrible either way.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
10 Jul 09
I don't think a terrorist detonating a bomb in a large city and killing a bunch of people is something to be "tongue in cheek" about. It's also not something you say even if you don't expect anyone to take it literally because there's always that danger these days. Annie
• United States
10 Jul 09
HELLO!! IMUS was slaughtered for making his racist remarks on live radio on MSNBC
@elmiko (6640)
• United States
12 Jul 09
no their not guilty of treason. their guilty of stupidity. its their right to free speech.
@anniepa (27240)
• United States
12 Jul 09
I guess we all DO have the right to say stupid things, right? Annie
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
12 Jul 09
[b] Oh, MAN...the IRONY! Well, dang. Will someone please get me a dry set of undies? Maggiepie "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?"[/b]
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
12 Jul 09
[b]If you ever bothered to really WATCH Glenn Beck's show, you'd know he NEVER wants any such thing to happen here. I didn't see that particular episode, but I think I recognize his sense of humor when I hear it. Beck LOVES this country, & is fighting REAL traitors. Here's a dollar. Buy a sense of humor. And WATCH his show, so you'll know what the hell you're talking about. Maggiepie "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?"[/b]
• United States
13 Jul 09
Yeah he loves this country so much, when he is not calling victims scumbags. Certain people may say things that sound good to conservatives and share their views, but Glenn Beck is still a jackass underneath it all, and maybe some people don't want to watch him because I think if I watched him, I would barf out of pure disgust, just like I would if I listened to Rush Limbaugh, just like a zebra can't change its stripes, a jerk is always a jerk.
• United States
10 Jul 09
Just looking at Glenn's expression, I see no indication that he is in favor of an attack on the United States. I would even say that Scheuer was not being literal and was only trying to emphasize a point. In addition, it's not treason if they both support the United States. Actual treason would involve Beck and Scheuer flying to Afghanistan, training with Al-Qaeda, and fighting against America in the War on Terror.
• United States
10 Jul 09
i dont care what anyone says, they need to curb it a little, God forbid you direct anything at them and then its downright appalling!
• United States
11 Jul 09
No, like movie stars who advocated killing our last president, they are guilty of imminent foolish speech, but in this country even stupidity is allowed as free speech.