Opinions without Fact!

United States
August 20, 2009 2:15am CST
Politics is a fun, and heated topic among lots of people. Tempers rage over ideological difference, and friendships are broken through hot-headed people on both sides. But seriously folks why have an opinion if you don't know, or understand the topics at hand? It's severely bothers me that people have the nerve to think their opinions matter, or are even relevant when they hardly understand the political spectrum. You wouldn't go around having an opinion on the Windows Xp operating System if you hadn't used a computer before, so why chose Left or Right if you don't understand what the extreme of either are? A word of advice. Only History can be turned to for an accurate representation of what works and what doesn't.
4 people like this
11 responses
@jb78000 (15173)
20 Aug 09
ok, you're half my age which doesn't mean that i know more than you - just i've maybe seen more. what is going on in your country scares people...
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Aug 09
It scares me too. If this overwhealming occurrence of academia doesn't fade we will wind up not having any money to spend. Effectively bankrupting our economy.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15173)
20 Aug 09
..it scares me and the very conservative wee brothers and sisters i have
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15173)
20 Aug 09
being a bit provocative - do you know what foreigners call the us?
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22937)
• United States
20 Aug 09
I'm not one for politics, in fact I despise politics HOWEVER I have an opinion when it comes to certain areas of politics..Do I have ALL the facts on any one of those given particular topics? NOPE..do I care? NOPE...all I need to form an opinion on anyone of those areas is the basics and my personal feelings, experiences in life and so on...because they are MY "opinions"....Take for example abortion (just since in general its a MAJOR HOT topic)..I stand very very firmly and strong in my opinions when it comes to a womans right to choose...Do I know ALL the facts regarding abortion, the laws when it comes to abortion, the facts on the procedures in detail etc? NOPE..and I dont need to simply because I've personal experiences in life that directed relate to the yes or no of abortion etc...its my opinion of which of course i'm more than entitled to just like anyone else ya know.. As for ppl having "the nerve to think their opinions matter"...well they DO matter...even if they DON'T understand the topic...I have a very strong opinion on the war (any war)...I have no personal experience, I dont know or understand the policital aspect of it all blah blah blah but I still have a strong opinion on it and one that I have the right to voice should I feel the need.... Keeping religion and state seperate is another on...I dont know the ins and outs of it all and quite frankly dont care to HOWEVER I have a very strong opinion on it all because it directly affects my life and the lives of my kids... I think thats the key thing.. or word really "affect" - a person who doesnt own a computer, use a computer, have any desire to buy one etc most likely wouldnt really have an opinion on XP because it doesnt affect their lives, its a total non-issue...Politics however affects ALL OF US so of course to one degree or another we're all going to have an opinion on it/any political topic that stems from a variety of things depending on the person..
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
Yep. I will have an opinion on anything that is directly affecting or COULD directly affect my life, my kids' lives, my friends' lives. I care little whether other people agree with or like my opinion or not, or whether they like what I choose to do or not do based on my opinion. I am not obligated to agree with nor like OTHER PEOPLES' opinions or what they choose to do or not do either, so I don't see why we can't all just leave each other alone when it comes down to it. I don't like a lot of the things going on in politics because more or less they want to force the opinions of ONE GROUP onto EVERYBODY even if we want nothing to do with it. I say that people should always be able to opt out, no matter what it is, and if they don't like it, we'll just be responsible for ourselves. If that means we can't call 911 because we tripped on government property, then so be it, at least we have our freedom intact. I don't want government - nor anybody really - interfering with my rights to do as I choose, when nothing I am choosing is illegal nor causing harm to anybody.
• United States
23 Aug 09
Raven I'm not sorry to say this. You are wrong. Plane and simple. Certain opinions do not matter. Regardless if you were brought up in a society that says it does. It doesn't. People don't give a Sh** about what you think unless it's warranted and based on fact. Otherwise there would be uninformed morons running around congress and legislation being passed that is solely based on emotion. I can see that people want to have opinions on political issues because it does effect them, I can see that people want to get involved for various reasons, (mostly superficial). However simply having an opinion doesn't make it right or give it warrant for respect. YES people can have opposing views on political issues, and YES there is a right and a wrong way of doing things. You can't have it both ways. It's sad to think that we have a nation that brings people up to think that their way can be accepted even if it's wrong. A little introspection wouldn't hurt from time to time.
@jb78000 (15173)
20 Aug 09
nice one. i've got the horrible feeling you'll be banned in about 10 minutes though. you didn't include infantile insults,
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Aug 09
hahaha, people don't want to think they're wrong so I wouldn't be surprised if I did get banned. But if I do it will only prove my point. The best way in my experience to show a person they are wrong, is to have them explain their point with precision, and they might ask themselves why they defended it to begin with.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
How do you sit there though and point blank try to tell other people they are wrong though? Right and wrong in politics is simply a matter of opinion, and an opinion is an opinion, there is no right and wrong about it except as far as personal view or personal morality. I can tell you that discrimination is wrong but you might not believe in gay marriage, so your idea and my idea of discrimination could vary greatly. Which of us is right? Which of us is wrong? Like I said, it's not quite that simple.
2 people like this
@loudcry (1045)
• India
21 Aug 09
I too think people should be well informed. However, I beleive all people have a right to opine. Societies grow more educated when they debate, more so when all the people in the society debate. Even wrong and ill-informed opinions form an important part of debates. Such occasions can be used to correct or inform. It does not make much sence if five well-informed people sit for tea, agree with each other, and go to their respective homes without anybody having gained anything from the excercise.
• United States
23 Aug 09
I think having an opinion should be earned. Earned in the sense that EVERYONE should be able to have their own opinion but ONLY if it's based on fact. Societies to grow more educated when they debate, however why would anyone show up to a debate poorly, or blatantly uninformed? It seems silly to think that anyone should be entitled to an opinion without thinking about it for a good deal of time and it's outcomes etc. I think you're making an assumption when you say that well informed people are going to make the same decisions. Well informed and intelligent people learn from their mistakes, morons do not. Why do none of our presidents make their actions based on the results of history? I don't know..because they're morons. They base their decisions on their ideological standings which hardly change because they're based on emotion, which for some reason are more appealing to the masses. All in all a group of 5 all knowing people would and should make the same decisions if it's for the best. However we aren't all "all-knowing" and I never said taking steps towards NEW WAYS OF DOING THINGS is bad. However Obama is not doing anything new, he's using Liberal tactics that fail time, and time again and no one seems to notice or care. They just mindlessly nod their heads like the sheep they are saying YES WE NEED CHANGE! Newsflash! HE HASN'T PROVIDED ANY. (Not assuming you're pro-obama, I'm just making a point).
@loudcry (1045)
• India
24 Aug 09
You have countered the 'five people at tea' argument correctly, and I rest my case as regards that argument. However, its just a little fascist to say some people are not entitled to having opinions. In group of people having a discussion, an ill-informed person will, after saying a couple of thing, have to keep quiet. The others will talk about things he has no idea about. If such a person makes a wrong statement ,he will receive logical counterarguments that will make him keep quiet. All in all, I agree with you;ideally people should be well informed, I just have a little problem with your tone.
• United States
24 Aug 09
Understandable. I get heated when I respond sometimes, it's good and bad I think. The friends I make are better, and it keeps things interesting. Also it motivates me to come back and reply. You are correct though. Even though people don't understand a subject having them say..something couldn't hurt the conversation and it would help for them to learn, However it shouldn't be taken as something which is as....well thought out as an educated persons ideas opinions etc.
• United States
20 Aug 09
I think politics is more fun than science. In science, it's all facts but in politics, both sides have a chance to prove they are right. Politics is a a hard topic is understand fully so maybe that's why people hold more opinions than facts.
• United States
20 Aug 09
I agree, but just like science there is a right, and a wrong way of doing things which has been proven time and time again. I think it's our lack of understanding of history, and inability to cite historical fact which leads to the confusion.
• United States
20 Aug 09
But science less fun than politics? NO WAY! hahaha =D
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
Science gets less HEATED than politics. Doesn't mean there's less or more truth to it lol.
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
Hmmm. A lot about politics in general is wrong anyway though, although each side claims it's right. This is why I dislike both republicans and democrats, neither group knows what is right for EVERYBODY, furthermore, politics cannot be a blanket umbrella under which things are right for everybody. People are always at odds and there is way too much lying and hypocrisy for any truth to surface at all. People are too busy buying each other off, hiding things, and making things out to be what they are not just to convince people to vote for them or support their cause. It is disgusting! Case in point, the health care thing. The stimulus bill. This reminds me of people who were polled and mentioned that Palin would be an excellent help to OBAMA. Huh? She ran with MCCAIN. *befuddled*
• United States
20 Aug 09
Exactly, I don't think either had the perfect approach to an ideal government. Which is why I have made it a personal goal to find out, and understand how we can work towards the IDEAL form which will benefit us all. Now because I don't have everything sorted out I don't want to really tell you what that ideal government is but I'm getting very close. Although I doubt this will ever become practiced due to the emotions involved with politics and the inability of people to see beyond them I'm hoping to in the near future create a gathering of people who understand and spread the word of my theory. Thanks for responding! =D
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
My take would be to combine the best parts of both approaches and to disregard any of the bad practices from both. That is why we need another large party which is neither republican nor democrat. I don't get the whole 'leaning right' or 'leaning left', and decisions should only be made when that is what the majority of the people want.
• Philippines
20 Aug 09
From the standpoint of the poster when he/she responds to a political topic, you can identify if he/she knows what he is talking about. Since the examples are pretty simple then let's use them. Politics and XP have similarities in some ways. Windows XP users who is not that good in computer meets that operating system every now and then and accompanied in everyday life (if and only if that his/her OS). But does that user really cares for his OS, of course not.All he want to do is blog and live with it. Politics is the same way, a certain individual live in a particular area, he might not actually knew what's going on with the political arean but still, he lives with it. Another, Windows XP for technical people can of course manipulate windows XP and discuss this OS every now and then with a very comprehensive knowledge about that. Same goes with politics, if a certain individual knows about politics, he will discuss this geniusly. So what's the point? You cannot underestimate politics because people who understand it have a high level of proficiency. And besides, you cannot enter into a debate with it if you are a low-life jerk who doesn't care about it and just opening a topic nonsense. Politics is for above average person because it's a logical topic you can always discuss and everything can be learned by listening first than posting or responding to a political issues/concern being discussed.
• United States
21 Aug 09
I like that you furthered my example of the XP versus Politics comparison. There is a lot to learn when it comes to politics, the rate that misinformation and absolute nonsense is spread is simply unimaginable. Meaningless statements such as "The economy took this long to destroy so it's going to take this long or longer to fix" Is complete BS. It has no facts, and it's completely subjective. Not only that but who says that it will take as long or longer to fix? What background in economics do you need to make this claim? I don't think any intelligent person would make this comment without backing it up somehow and that is exactly my point. It's these meaningless phrases that make it seem as though you can have a coherent opinion in politics without having actually studied it. These statements spread like propaganda and are essentially the reason for the name of this discussion "Opinions Without Fact". Thanks for responding!
• Philippines
22 Aug 09
You have just mention the right word, Propaganda. Propagandist are the know-it-all person but if you study deeply what they are talking about, you just end up laughing at them because nothing is true.
@laglen (19782)
• United States
20 Aug 09
I agree that we must learn from history in order to understand today. Especially politics where there are so many facets. A lot of people just try to argue with feelings. Feelings are ok but have their time and place. Politics is not that place. I think it is important to be thoughtful and practical.
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
20 Aug 09
Politics has been overrun with feelings, and not just that, overrun with greedy individuals who are only lining their own pockets and thinking of their own future. They no longer care about the general public - from whom they steal the money they put in their own pockets.
• United States
21 Aug 09
I agree, which is why a system needs to be devised that rewards greediness on all levels. That way there are fewer people who "Need" a hand out, and more independant people who can take care of themselves and their families (which incidentally is the largest dependency of a sustainable economy, that's right SELFISHNESS!). I don't mean to say that charity is bad. If a person wants to do it then they should be able to, but altruistic charity where the giver is suffering is completely unacceptable! This can be most easily show today with our tax system. Good luck, thanks for the response. ;D
• India
24 Aug 09
Hell everyone, What a great discussion! I'm extremely happy to hear that a theory is being formulated. I wish more youth world wide were trying to do the same! Bravo! I am no expert and can't write terribly well either, but I hope that I can make a tiny contribution at least and that it will be somehow inspiring. There is a huge difference between opinions and facts. I think in some ways, although we are supposed to be free countries people still feel SUBTLY oppressed and manipulated by the system, which leads to alot of frustration, and a type of counterbalance to this is to have some type of opinion at least, which gives people a sense of empowerment,individuality and self worth etc....ie it reflects an underlying problem with the 'system' aswell as us. Unfortunately, people do not have proper time to actually dig deep and do proper research and therefore kind of put things together prematurely, desperately to make sense of things. Majority of people's time is bound up by hard work, family, bills and loans, and that doesn't leave much time to look at ALL. Personally I feel to really know facts one has to look at almost everything in WORLD HISTORY as everything is interrelated. And the other problem is that Facts and History are also manipulated. Documents are often forged to fullfill a certain agenda, some documents are kept in TOP SECRET, so we never really get to correlate them with research available on the ground,so basically we can only usually lay our hands on the type of facts that the Govt and Corporates want us to. History needs to be revised very often, as new found evidence has always got to be integrated and there are huge delays as some countries just don't release them even if they are supposed to. For eg. the British Govt, still hasn't released some documents pertaining to World war 2, even though by law they should have,due to national security reasons, so be it. But unless we have all the documents infront of us, uncensored, how do we completely know what the all the details of world war 2 are? (I'm a British national by the way, living in India now). Other examples are that when the British left India, they destroyed lots of documents regarding the genocide here, so now there is no way of knowing accurately how many were killed, Indian journalists are hypothesizing that it could be as high as 11 million! History is often written by the Victors, and they will always manipulate things in order to favour their own image often missing out crucial facts, so what we study in Universities can also be very one sided and has an element of propaganda. Take Hiroshima for example. One of my favourite Investigative Journalists is the world renowned John Pilger. He gives us classic examples, time and time again, of what the Western Govt or Coporates, makes us believe is happening by producing documented evidence, but then upon GROUND INVESTIGATION John Pilger shows us an entirely different situation and FACT. So it seems that there are layers and layers of lies which are always being passed off as facts. So what Facts we know today about certain current wars could be proved wrong in 10 years! People dedicate their lives fulltime to exposing these untruths, but still the status quo will reject them as they don't have the establishments seal of approval. And the establishment are not made of Saints so should we believe everything they condone....? So there is a problem with the word fact and history. One has to have the ability to decipher truth from fiction and it's not an easy thing to do it seems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism http://johnpilger.com
• India
30 Aug 09
Thank you so much for a best response. I am truly chuffed!
• United States
20 Aug 09
It is a pity that politics seems to usually come down to insults and wild theory. I suppose generalization usually doesn't work though. Sometimes, you come across people citing misinterpreted or even perhaps misconstrued sources. Peoples perception often vary, and on some issues, there could be a chance of misrepresentation in the source. Different eyes witness the current scene, and record history. Maybe there should be a scale that is presented when things are written, disclosing the amount of opinion vs. accepted truth... that seems to be where a lot of problems start... misinformation.
• United States
20 Aug 09
wow...You summed up all my thoughts. Well done. I agree we should have a scale with opinion vs truth it would really show people how much emotions is involved with politics, and how it shouldn't be turned to for rational decision. Well done. =D
@mrshughes (352)
• Philippines
20 Aug 09
Some people are just trying to be helpful, giving there opinions without thinking. Its like a carpenter wants to repair ur car...if u know what i mean. For me personally, i will accept opinions without fact coz im sure they are only trying there best to help u...now its up to us which opinion we go for.