Spiritual or Religious?

Australia
September 5, 2009 9:38pm CST
I have been involved in a thread regarding the reason educated people seem to have so much trouble accepting the existence of God, and thinking about it, felt the need to start this thread. I do not believe in God. I accept that it is difficult to see how the incredible balance and creativity in the universe came about, but if there is, indeed, intelligent design, I simply cannot give any credence to any of the anthropomorphic representations humans have created to depict the Creator. I have sought spiritual enlightenment in several Christian variations, a couple of eastern ones, and in the Neo-pagan path. Of them all, the Neo-pagan was the only one that I felt approached effectiveness, and even then I did not "believe" in the Goddesses and Gods of the pagan pantheon, but I saw them as useful archetypes with which one could act "as if" they exist and work with the energies that ritual and meditation could raise with that model in mind. I have no problem at all with people who believe implicitly in a Creator, or even with those who call the Creator God. What I do have real problems with is the religious path that so many people of all races and cultures seem to need to find their way to spirituality. The belief in "Holy" books and their divine origin is, to me, the absolute peak of stupidity and wishful thinking. As a highly educated person, with qualifications in, among others, Comparative Religion, and having at one point seriously considered taking Holy orders with the Anglican Church, I believe I have the knowledge and understanding to judge the evidence that archaeology, anthropology, and religious studies have put before us: that all "Holy" books are human creations, that all religious myths are symbolic, not realistic, and that all religious systems are politicised power structures with an elite leading the masses. Sheer observation also tells us that these systems tend to attract a lot of inherently evil people into their power structures, as well as, it must be admitted, some "saintly" types. So, it is not so much that educated people don't believe in God, and many educated people have been highly spiritual; it's that they tend not to believe in scriptures and religious systms. And for the spiritual ones, all the benefits that are said to come from religion come even more so from spirituality. Even ritual, which many people need, does not have to be in a religious setting. Summing up, I am saying that sirituality is valid and valuable, religion is invalid and valueless. What do we all think? Lash
4 people like this
7 responses
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
6 Sep 09
"religion is invalid and valueless" isn't a statement I totally agree with actually. Yes, it's metamorphosised into a living, breathing capitalistic beast in most instances, but as with everything else, it serves a purpose! The ultimate problem is that it's a man-made entity so therefore fundamentally flawed just as we are. I guess what it really comes down to is pur perception of "value" as well. Overall, organised religions are not for me either, but I do believe in God. Just not in the formats that organised religions tell me I should believe! Spirituality is a less constrictive, more introspective focus and the very free will God granted us should allow us to pursue self discovery and enlightenment without fear of reprisal and definitely without having to adhere to struct structures and rules. I'd love to add more, but I have to head out the door to work! I'll be back.....
• Australia
6 Sep 09
Well I do have a bad habit of over-using hyperbole. You are correct, there probably is some value and validity in areas of religion, particularly for those who find introspection and self-discovery difficult. But on the whole I would put you down as more on the side of Spirituality. Lash
2 people like this
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
6 Sep 09
I see myself as more of a spiritual person too because I certainly don't adhere to any structured belief system. I agree totally with you about organised religion being ideal for those that have no discipline or ability to think or self reflect as freely as others. This isn't to say that all people who follow an organised religious path are unable to think autonomously, but having rules and regulations in place can be of tremendous benefit to some people. Not me, that's for sure! I've never responded well to guidelines! "Don't tread where others tread..... Go your own way and leave a trail!"
1 person likes this
• Australia
6 Sep 09
The problem with following rules and regulations, as in religious systems, is the tendency to follow them uncritically - which leads to at best traditionalism, and at worst fundamentalism. And woe betide he who challenges those "fundamentals". Lash
2 people like this
@miamilady (4910)
• United States
24 Sep 09
I'm going to have to come back and type more later, but I couldn't resist on commenting (for now) with my first reaction to the title of this discussion. When my mother was in a coma (almost two years ago) she ended up in a Catholic church... My sister consider's herself very "spiritual". She tried to get my dad to go down to the chapel. She made sure that the priest came to visit my Mom. Contacted the hospital's nun and got her involved in my Mom's "case"... I just remember one conversation with the Catholic Priest where my sister was talking to him and she said to him in her VERY SOUTHER accent " I'm a very spiritual person and..." (I wish I could type that in a southern accent!). I remember thinking to myself "now I'm very sure this Catholic Priest is going to appreciate her "spirituality"...NOT! I think I actually cringed when she said it! I'm kind of "in the middle" on the subject of religion vs. spirituality and whether or not the two are related. I think it truly just depends on the individual. Religion "works" for some people and I respect that. For other's "religion" just doesn't work for them, but they do feel a spiritual connection. I respect that too.
• Australia
24 Sep 09
That's fair comment. I went a little overboard in my OP; I do actually think that religion works for some spiritual people (covering my bets there), but for most people it is custom, conformity, and/or paying of lip service, while their actions fall into areas that I consider quite against the pure message of their religion, and that applies as much to Muslims and Hindus etc. as it does to Christians. Spirituality works whether there is a religion attached or not. Lash
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
18 Sep 09
I quite agree with you that spirituality is valid and valuable and religion is not only invalid but can be dangerous. As a historian I have seen so much evil done in the name of religion over the centuries that I could never accept any of them as "Holy". Yet I have a strong belief in spirituality. I started to question religion when I was just a young girl because I could not accept a faith that treated me as a non entity. It was a male world where women were to be treated as property and as a women I could never accept it. I searched for years for some faith that I could accept. For a while Buddhism seemed ok but I could never accept the separation of spirit and flesh that it advocates. I learned instead that to separate them is to no longer be a whole person. I was drawn to the goddess of the pagan world, possibly because she was female and I could relate to her but mostly because of the life energy of the world. I do not believe in a physical deity in the sense of believing in a being, but in the energy of the world, the harmony of nature, the life force that flows through everything. I believe in a life force that flows through the world, through us and through all of nature. Unfortunately our industrial lifestyle, and the religion that preaches domination over everything, is in danger of destroying that life force.
@dawnald (85135)
• Shingle Springs, California
27 Sep 09
I believe that there is more than just the world we can see. But as far as religion, I think it is a human construct to help people understand the world around them and also to regulate behavior.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
12 Sep 09
OK! So now you can not believe the stories in all those holy books. You do seem to realize there is spirituality. We are all spiritual beings in our true nature. If you realize this as well, maybe it's time for you to search for God. Where to look?? Where to look?? Perhaps this too is a test of intelligence. Keep walking. As far as knowledge is concerned, is it ever the end of the road?? There is always more!!!!
• Australia
12 Sep 09
Reading the whole of the opening post might be intelligence. Your arrogance, like so many "true" believers, is staggering. "maybe it's time for you to search for God", you say: I was seriously considering the ministry as a young man, I have been through numerous attempts to find God since, I have a degree in religious studies, and you have the gall to tell me to search for God. Go do something anatomically impossible with yourself. Lash
• United States
8 Sep 09
Friends, I believe in God but I do not call myself religious. I do not follow the church or it's dictates, stand up, sit down nonsense or a person who says I should do this or that. I follow God. I see my spirituality as love, for God and for others. That is what He requires of me. I am not perfect and never will be. The same goes for other christians who might think they are because they do 'God's work.' I try to love others even when they do not deserve it and do the right thing even when it is not the popular thing. I don't condemn someone for not believing the same thngs I do. It is their choice. But I do take offense when someone calls me stupid for my belief. I believe we should respect each others' views and even debate them. I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. We will have to disagree without exchanging insults. I am not as educated as most of you. But I have had life experiences that proved my faith. I have children who do not believe but I still love them and so does God. Some may consider me weak but that's okay. we all have to live our lives the way we like and makes us enjoy it!
• Australia
8 Sep 09
Then you are one of those whom I consider spiritual rather than religious, and I have no problem at all with that, in fact I respect it. It's the blind belief in scriptures that I find so dangerous and valueless, whether that be the bible, the Koran, the Baghavad Gita, or Mao's Little Red Book. Lash
1 person likes this
@Sandra1952 (6047)
• Spain
8 Sep 09
I believe in God, but I'm not a God Botherer. I have faith, but not blind faith. As part of my BA, I studied the Romantic Poets, and I must say Wordsworth and Blake were two of the most spiritual people I have ever encountered, yet their contemporaries threw up their hands in horror at their belief system - or rather, lack of a belief system, as others saw it. I appreciate the inherrent beauty of Nature, and I can see a creator's hand in it, but I don't buy the 'God created the world in 6 days' thing, so I'd go along with you that it's the scriptures that are the problem, not God. There are some wonderful stories and allegories in the Bible, but they are just that - stories and allegories. While we may learn from them and find our own truth in them, it's not a 'one size fits all' thing.