So You Believe Health Care Is A Right, And Your Point Is What?

@gewcew23 (8011)
United States
November 8, 2009 8:32am CST
Some want to say that health care is a natural right that every human has, but how do you go from saying that to government should provide for that right. You have a right to speech does that mean government should provide you an audience, and how big should the audience be? You have the right to be your own press so should the government buy you your own TV and radio station? You have the right to your own religious beliefs so should government build you a place of worship? You have the right to protest so should government pay for your signs, paint, blow horn, and costumes? You have a right to self-defense so should government pay for you to have a gun, pepper spray, and hand to hand combat training? Let us even except the idea that not only do you have the natural right to health care, but government should provide you your health care, what kind of health care. Should the health care be your choice or governments choice? Should it be eastern medicine or western medicine? What if someone believes that health care is Gods business, then should government provide them their own personal faith healers?
6 people like this
10 responses
@Rollo1 (16649)
• Boston, Massachusetts
8 Nov 09
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. The man who wrote those words, along with other like-minded founders of the United States, then wrote a document as a framework for a government dedicated to ensuring these liberties. Those things necessary to Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are codified in the Bill of Rights. Everything else is a benefit. At least, I thought health insurance was a benefit - it was listed under Benefits in my Employee Handbook for many years. The entitlement mindset knows no bounds. It basically says that each individual has the right to demand to have, without effort, the same benefits enjoyed by those who have won those benefits by their efforts. Call a benefit a "right" and suddenly you can demand others provide it to you. The Health Care bill they have just passed through the house says if you don't pay for this benefit, whether you want it or not, you must pay a fine or go to jail, thus depriving you of Liberty. The American people overwhelmingly have expressed their opposition to this benefit becoming an entitlement and to the provisions of this legislation. It may become law anyway due to the unlawful acts of those in Congress - unlawfully and willingly ignoring the will of the people they are supposed to represent. The country is now in the final stages of collapse. The Constitution is now become meaningless as it is ignored over and over. We the people have been stripped of the power to govern ourselves.
3 people like this
• United States
8 Nov 09
..and the bigger government gets (and every new program means government just morphed into a larger entity) the less rights the people have, because we lose the all important balance of power which came from the checks and balances upon power which is the basis of the constitution and bill of rights.. Some folks are not even aware that the bill of rights exclusively restricts the rights of government, something which has been a slippery slope for some time now..
2 people like this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
10 Nov 09
All men ARE created equal. But not ALL put forth equal effort. And government's job is to ensure all have an equal playing field, equal opportunity. Instead of taking and then giving away what someone has earned, why couldn't they have leveled the playing field? Insurance reform, tort reform...to lower malpractice insurance costs thereby lowering the cost of a doctor's visit or hospital stay. Why not ensure that all have opportunity to purchase healthcare with what THEY make? And for those who cannot earn a living...we had programs for that. My son spent the last week in ICU. He was taken from one ICU here in our home town, to one in St. Louis. He got the BEST care and his life was saved. He had no insurance. The social workers are helping him apply for medicaid...retro active. Some would say...that is not fair. But I don't mind my taxes going to help save the lives of others who are unfortunate and who couldn't have health insurance. What I DO mind is the government saying what they will pay for and what they won't pay for. My son was on the liver transplant list...thank God he did not need a transplant. I asked the doctors if his not having insurance would be a factor in his getting a liver if needed. I was VERY afraid my son's life would depend on it. I was assured by a very kind specialist...who probably has spent all of his adult life training to save lives (and has outrageous student loan bills)...that that was NOT a factor. He smiled, and said thank God your son did not get sick a few years down the road...then I asked him what he meant. (I was so tired and scared I truly did not get it) He smiled again...put his arm on my shoulder and said...We still have the say in this. A few years from now we may not. I thank God for the wonderful care my son got...and he will recover fully and go on to pay VERY high taxes in return!
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
10 Nov 09
My son is not married, this is true. But he is not unemployed...that is when he went into ICU...is was employed. We are waiting for his employer to respond to find out if he will have a job. As for your other statements....a doctor on the transplant team told us that financial considerations are not part of the criteria that is used to determine who gets a transplant at this time...only the age, overall health (the presence of other chronic health issues), viability (ability to survive operation) of the patient is considered as to who is given an organ and who is not.
1 person likes this
@Buffalo1 (99)
• United States
9 Nov 09
Health care is not a right. It is a privilege. We already have free health care, since anyone that shows up at the ER is treated. Freedom is not Free, and neither is health care. Everything has a price tag, even if not readily apparent.
@spalladino (17926)
• United States
9 Nov 09
You're mistaken...treatment in the ER consists of temporary fixes and stabilization. You cannot walk into an ER and receive life saving chemotherapy or radiation if you have cancer. They won't admit you and perform surgery for free. If you have heart disease that's not killing your right that minute they will not admit you and treat you for that either. The ER will also not perform orthopedic surgery. The ER will not check your cholesterol and give you medication nor will they give you medication for high blood pressure. I could go on but I won't.
@sid556 (31006)
• United States
9 Nov 09
You are kidding...right? Have you ever been to the ER? It is not free,...not by a long shot. In fact you pay a pretty penny more...way more. Even if you are lucky enough to have insurance...your cost on the insurance is going to be far greater if you go to the ER.
@spalladino (17926)
• United States
9 Nov 09
Thanks sid, I forgot to mention the financial aspect of going to the ER. Yes, they will send you a bill...a big bill...and expect you to pay it. If you don't pay it, it goes on your credit report and eventually turned over to a collection agency who then calls you day and night in an effort to get that big bill paid.
@laglen (19782)
• United States
8 Nov 09
If healthcare is a right then I want what Congress has. Thats my right - right?
@gewcew23 (8011)
• United States
8 Nov 09
If health care is a right then that should be your right.
2 people like this
@spalladino (17926)
• United States
8 Nov 09
What I believe is that, in a country as great as the United States, no American should suffer and die from a curable disease because they don't have and/or cannot get or afford health insurance. The current state of private health insurance in this country has helped to lead to this. Working class individuals and families are subjected to plans that pay nothing until a yearly deductable of several thousand dollars is met. That means that doctor visits, prescriptions, diagnositc tests and even some outpatient surgeries must be paid out of pocket before their benefits kick in. Too many others are denied insurance because of pre-existing conditions.
2 people like this
• United States
8 Nov 09
Getting rid of all lobbying and lobbyists in Washington would take care of so much that is wrong in the society, as the politicians who benefit from the lobbying pass laws and regulations that are not of benfit to the people. I truly think the only thing all this government involvement will result in is yet another layer of buraucracy and expense.. And I think it will actually result in less healthcare.
3 people like this
@spalladino (17926)
• United States
9 Nov 09
We shall see gewcew. I responded to your play on words above.
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
9 Nov 09
[b]There are some real problems, but those problems are not fixed by the draconian "health care reform" monstrosity! All it does is make it even harder to get help, & take away our freedom! Tort reform, allowing more competition among companies across state lines, & so on, would do the job, but then, that's not the reason the Left wants this thing, anyhow. It's about control. Of every part of your life. All the promises the Left made about this thing, from what's in it to what it will coat to how it was created, were cynically broken. Lied about from the get-go! They've been forced to keep only one--the "no paid abortions" rule--but they're going to try their best to negate it (secretly, of course. "Transparency!? We don't neeeed no stinkin' transparency! We're in power now; we'll do whatever we damned well please! Thbbbt!"). Mark my words. At least I won't have to eat my own words. There is no such animal as "free" health care! The bill the House just passed is a beast, though; I'll give it that...a beast from the pits of Hell. Maggiepie IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER![/b]
1 person likes this
@sid556 (31006)
• United States
9 Nov 09
I don't know the answer to this one. I work full time and I can't afford insurance. I can't afford to enter the doctors office even...oh wait...I don't have a doctor. I did have insurance at one time not too long ago. I paid 36.00 per week. I used it once when I got cancer of the cervix. It had advanced and I needed to see a specialist. I got denied coverage because my insurance only covered 2 gynocology visits per year and this was considered gynocoligical. I had to fight it and then see and get the approval of a family doctor that had no idea as to what was going on. I gave up my insurance because I could not afford it. It was going to rise considerably because I'm a smoker....even tho I have not missed a days work ever due to illness. So for all the many years and tons of money that I poured into that insurance pool....I used only a fraction of what I put in. Insurance is not affordable for a single working person like me and healthcare isn't either. No one owes me anything. If something were to happen and I got sick now either I recover or I'll see ya all on the other side. Insurance and healthcare is for those that work in jobs that are able to offer it at an affordable rate or the wealthy. The rest of us....oh well.
2 people like this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
9 Nov 09
[b]Sid, I salute you for your honesty & bravery, & for your unwillingness to claim a "right" which doesn't exist, that of demanding others pay your way. But take heart, there are answers. The bill the House just passed doesn't have them, but there are ways--legal, moral ways--to improve things. See my other posts for more details on that. God be with you, dear. I'll pray (& fight for) the ways we can find the help you need. Maggiepie IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER![/b]
1 person likes this
@ronnyb (6125)
• Jamaica
8 Nov 09
I believe that health care is a natural right that all citizens should have access irrespective of financial standing.However ,I dont believe that the state should pay for everyone .Instead I believe that those who can pay should pay and this payment should go towards improving the health facilities for thise who cannot pay .Really great discussion
2 people like this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
9 Nov 09
[b]Ronny, you seem to be ignorant of one very important fact! The state is the only one which takes the money from you & I to pay for this health care. There is no-one who voluntarily shells out the money to do this--whom do you think would make "those who can pay (a debatable status in & of itself...)" to make the funds "go toward improving the health facilities for those who cannot pay"? The money fairy? No! It is the government who "redistributes" our money! Furthermore, there isn't enough money to give everyone health care, so it's going to wreck our already dying financial system, & we are borrowed up to our eyebrows already from other countries! China hesitates now to lend us more money! How soon before they call in their debt? The dollar is dying, & this insane, sky-high costly bill will result in poorer health care, rationing of what we can get, & a lack of freedom never experienced in our formerly free country! You need to study the problem far more deeply. Maggiepie IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER![/b]
@ladym33 (11008)
• United States
8 Nov 09
I like what you said. I think it was very well put. I would not add or change a thing. You are right we have a right to health care but it does not mean the government should provide it?
1 person likes this
@Koriana (302)
• United States
8 Nov 09
the only way they can provide it, it to take away from someone else. all men are created equally...so, how do the decide among the equals who deserves their aid, who shouldn't? and by helping those they find deserving of the help, aren't they extending the right to that help to all the others who need that help? or, are we the taxpayers destined to be the new slave class, paying for those benefits for others, while doing without ourselves?
3 people like this
@ladym33 (11008)
• United States
8 Nov 09
You hit the nail on the head, those of us who work hard, go to college work hard to better our lives end up paying for those who do not. They are essentially sucking us down along with them, and the government is accomadating this.
2 people like this
@ladym33 (11008)
• United States
8 Nov 09
Sorry I did not mean to say that only those who go to college work hard, I meant anyone who works hard to better themselves and take care of their families.
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
9 Nov 09
[b]The only "point" to "health care reform" isn't about health care, but about control. Power. The Left craves it like air. They want to have it, & they don't want US to have it. Simple as that. Control freaks, all of them. Ptui. A pox on the lot! Maggiepie IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER![/b]
1 person likes this
@gewcew23 (8011)
• United States
9 Nov 09
Government loves to control, but what is sicker is those that want to be controlled.
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
9 Nov 09
[b]Hey, no argument here! I'm so disgusted with the "entitlement mentality" overtaking our country now. I have railed against this for years, to little avail. I wonder if it's too late to reverse this crud. Sigh. Not that I'm going to quit fighting, but, at times, I do think, maybe if I stopped banging my head against this wall of ignorance, it would make my headache stop.... But then I realize, it would just give me a bigger migraine if I just let it happen without a fight. "Do not grow weary of doing good," says the bible. Yes Sir. I hear You. Maggiepie IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER![/b]
• Philippines
9 Nov 09
health care is a right for a country's citizen and my point is that under a constitution a person possesses certain rights and priveleges provided for by the law of the land/country but of course a right being exercised must be bounded by laws and not mob rule, health care is an important issue being raised right now and therefore lawmakers must be able to come up with a solution that can help raise healthcare for the people so that people can benefit from it.
@sid556 (31006)
• United States
9 Nov 09
I don't know as it is a right. If it is...many of us don't have it. What I do see with this country is that we do an awful lot to provide for other countries to help them while those in our own country ...well who could care less. Pretty much if you don't work at all...you qualify for tons of help. If you work and can't afford insurance, heat, food, home...oh well....your're just skrewed. It's how it is.
@K46620 (1996)
• United States
10 Nov 09
It is not a right. If it was, food, water, and shelter would be a right too. Having a right to someone else's work contradicts the principles of liberty.