What would you do? How do you feel about this?

Canada
April 7, 2010 7:28am CST
Ok, I have a slight dilemma. I bought something, that is priced at $1,000. I gave a $400 deposit, and we made arrangements for them to deliver it for $100. Our arrangement was for them to deliver it in a month's time. The month is up and the delivery date is April 10th, this Saturday. It is an animal. I have bought and sold many animals in my time, as well as written up many agreements to purchase animals as well as payment plans. The usual arrangement, is to put a deposit of some sort on it, and then the person has that money to keep even if you change your mind. That is just a standard legal practise. But she is now demanding that she will not deliver it until I have paid for it in full. I haven't seen this animal in person yet, and I purchased it online. Yes, they posted a picture. 2, in fact. But still. I said that I felt that she was already in a position of financial power and she was guarantted the balance of the money, IN CASH, when she arrived. That is when the majority of the transfer would occur, normally, in my experience. I haven't seen where she lives, I don't even know her phone number. So, what do you think? Is she right to demand even more money up front, or am I right to protect myself and wait until she arrives with the animal? What would you do?
7 people like this
18 responses
• Regina, Saskatchewan
7 Apr 10
I know how much experience you have buying and selling animals online. And you've been pretty lucky so far that things have gone well. (Except for that Arab of course! LOL). BUT there is always a first time for everyone to run across a scammer. My fear is that if you pay her in full you'll have no recourse if she doesn't show up with the animal. SO, in your shoes, I would contact her and tell her, YOU will absorb the travel cost ($100.00) and YOU will go to her to check out the animal and if you are satisfied, pay her in full on the spot. And if you are not satisfied, she gets to keep the $400.00 regardless and you will absorb the $100.00. I know this will be a hassle for you Annie, but it's the only sensible solution and if you are short the $100.00 I'll give it to you myself, just to make sure you aren't buying a pig in a poke and wasting your time!
2 people like this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Yep, well think about that fella from Scotland. He had to trust me implicitly and he never even spoke to me on the phone. Yet, I still arranged everything and tested, quarantined and shipped him 10 Registered Sheep. I had to make him pay me in advance, on trust. I already agreed to pay her the travel cost, although I don't think it will cost her $100 to travel for 1hr and 41 minutes, by mapquest's estimate. She says her vehicle is a deisel truck hauling a trailer, so I think she will be paid for her time as well. It is a fair deal for me, as a regular trucker would have charged $250. I'm pretty sure I can make the trip in my own vehicle for about $40 at most. As that is all it would cost me for a round trip 2 hrs one way, at most. I don't have time to drive all the way up there right now, with Gramma's Memorial on Saturday now, too. I have to try and convince her to either come in the morning on the original scheduled day, or the next day, Sunday. Sunday would be better, as Saturday will just be too hectic. But I can make it work if that is the only day she is available. Although I can't miss my Gramma's Services if she insists she has to come in the afternoon. After all, it IS unavoidable having her pass away so suddenly. I just thought that my Uncle said he would have the services a little later, so that all the family could come for sure. So, maybe that is when the most of them are available, I dunno.
2 people like this
• Regina, Saskatchewan
7 Apr 10
In other words, the horse is due to be delivered the same day as your gran's memorial? Ouch. I just don't think you should give her any more money until you've seen and checked out the animal. And if she won't deliver, then find the time after your gran's memorial to go yourself. This whole situation stinks...............and I don't want to see you taken advantage of at such a time. My thoughts and blessings are with you sweets.
2 people like this
• Canada
8 Apr 10
Yeah, sigh. That sucks, but she emailed me back last night and said Saturday is the day she is bringing her, so as long as she gets here early enough in the morning, I can still have time to get showered, and dressed for Gramma's Memorial. I was hoping she could shift it to Sunday, but apparently not.
2 people like this
@Aussies2007 (5339)
• Australia
7 Apr 10
That's a tricky one. Legally, if the plan was to pay her on delivery, you should stick to the plan. I am more of a seller online than a buyer. And I won't send the goods until the buyer has paid me. So it is very much a question of trust for the buyer. But it is the same for the seller. If a seller was sending goods without his money first, he would only get paid 7 times out of 10, and from the 7, he would get paid when it suit the buyer. That is why you cannot buy anything without paying it first. So in a way, it is not surprising that she wants her money. You are the one taking all the risks when buying from a private person online. It was your choice. For my part, I would not buy from someone unless I know their private details. When people buy from me, they either direct deposit the money in my bank account or my PayPal account. In doing so, they have a record of depositing the money, which give them a sense of security.
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Yes, I understand asking for full price up front, shipping included, actually, if you are to never meet the person. But she is delivering the animal herself. If not, it would be her husband, so a person of trust to her, to accept the money on her behalf. I have asked her to bring a receipt with her and she has agreed to that. That way I have proof of purchase when I go to register and/or transfer the animal into my name. But with livestock, and since she is only 2 hrs away from me, the usual routine is to transfer the bulk of the money in person upon delivery. It would be different if I had been able to travel to her place, known where she lived and seen and touched the animal first. I could have paid for it in full then, prior to delivery, because I would have also demanded a receipt showing full payment. As it is, I only gave her the $400 by depositing it in her account. I have a receipt from the bank for that, but it doesn't say what it is for. And if I had to go to court, it would be dubious if it was for any other purpose.
1 person likes this
• Australia
7 Apr 10
If you look at this from a purely commercial point of view She is probably doing you a favor by delivering it. And the last thing she wants, is having you to try to renegociate the deal when she gets to your place, because you do not like something. It was your responsability to go to her place to see the animal before purchasing it. I would not buy an animal without seeing it first. Particulary if it cost $1000. Buying an animal is not like buying something standard like a television. All televisions of the same model look the same. And if it is faulty, the seller is responsible. But with an animal, they are all different.
2 people like this
• Australia
7 Apr 10
And besides, she is more than financially covered, if I just 'changed my mind'. I will not fight her if she kept the deposit of $400 for a $100 trip. She really can't lose here. I thought of that too, and I agree with you. She played a part in this too, by accepting your deal, so she now has to carry it through.
2 people like this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
7 Apr 10
Hi Annie This sounds a bit suspicious to me specially as you have no details Can you not try to find anything out about this Person I personally would not give her the rest until you have seen the Animal she has no right to demand this specially as you will be giving her the rest in cash on delivery This sounds suspicious to me and I think you need to do some checking out Do not hand over the Money till the Animal is there and you have seen it for yourself and know it is genuine I really hope it all goes alright for you
2 people like this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Yes, when she said she has a 'rule' that she doesn't deliver any animal until it is paid in full, I told her that she already had a large deposit, almost half, and that was more than enough for me to have trusted her to pay without having any more details about her or having seen the animal 'hands-on'. It is a regular practise to exchange the bulk of the money (often by cheque, actually) on the date of the actual physical exchange. I told her that I had the balance, IN CASH, here in my drawer waiting for her when she arrives, including the delivery fee we agreed on. Because I know full well, that if she showed up with the animal, and I refused her, she could legally drive back home WITH the animal and keep my $400 deposit. So, I told her that the worst case scenario for her, would be, that she drove down here (2 hr drive) for a $100 charge, and drive back, with the animal and still get to keep the $400. Why would she need more security? I already feel stupid for having given that much without actually seeing the animal in person. But I only got nervous when she asked for the balance to be paid before delivery. Really, a 10% deposit is more in line, but I have given her 40% already, so she knows I will pay it when she arrives. She knows I want the animal and am not backing out.
2 people like this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
7 Apr 10
Annie I have to be honest I do not like the sound of this at all I really hope my instincts will be proven wrong Please let me know how it all works out Hugs
2 people like this
• Canada
17 Apr 10
Well, she made it here on Saturday, as originally planned, thank goodness. And she was all she said she was, so I paid her as I had promised in cash and she is now MINE! I'll try and get some pics soon, then you will see why I was so excited.
2 people like this
@fwidman (11515)
• United States
7 Apr 10
I would definitely want to see the animal before forking over any more money. That's a lot of money for anything, let alone an animal. I'd want to make sure I was getting my moneys worth before hand. Seems like you are dealing with somewhat of a shady character
2 people like this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
I think worst case scenario, if she brought her down and she wasn't as she described her (breach of contract) then I would be willing to pay her travel ($100) but expect her to refund the rest of the $400 (net $300). That would be my fault for not taking the time to drive up there and see her in person first. I told her that if I just 'changed my mind' after she had already made the drive down here to deliver her, she could always just drive back home and be well overpaid for her trip, by keeping the horse and the deposit.
@tessah (6621)
• United States
7 Apr 10
i think yer being smart and protecting yer investments. the agreement was for the remaining balance upon delivery. and thats what this woman should honor. if she refuses.. demand yer deposit back as SHE is the one who backed out of the arrangement, not you.
2 people like this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Well, originally when I asked her how long I had to pay for her, she said she would give me a month, with free board. She asked for half up front, but when I offered her $400, she said okay. Now that the delivery date is nearing, she now stated that she wouldn't deliver her until the balance was paid in full. I don't see why. It wasn't part of the original agreement, not that we discussed that part, just the deposit. Most animals of this kind that I have had deals made and completed are done with a smaller deposit and the bulk of the money is paid upon delivery or pick up. And yes, if she doesn't come down with the animal within a reasonable time frame, in trying to force me to pay her in full, first, I guess I would have the right to demand my deposit back, as then, she would be backing out. Thanks.
1 person likes this
@LadyMarissa (12161)
• United States
7 Apr 10
I would INSIST on paying on delivery!!! How do you know that she hasn't sold this animal 20 times??? She's depending on the fact that you want her animal enough to pay in advance. The fact that she waited until the last minute to spring this on you, makes me feel even MORE leary!!! At this point, I think you'd be better off losing $400 than a $1,000. Also, with NO way to contact her, what will you do when she doesn't show up & she has ALL your money???
• Canada
7 Apr 10
That is pretty much what I told her. That she was already in a position of financial power already and I didn't feel comfortable, nor required to pay any more 'up front' until she arrived here. She is delivering her herself, so I don't see the problem. I have tried to look up her addy and telephone to no avail. I just emailed her and asked though, so I have it on record.
1 person likes this
@zandi458 (27952)
• Malaysia
7 Apr 10
I think you need to protect your interest first to hold on to the balance of the payment as it was mutually agreed before the deal went through. Moreover you have paid a deposit and agreed to pay the full price upon delivery ie COD. The seller is at an advantage as she has your deposit money and still holding on to animal. She is trying to manipulate the deal and who knows what happen next if you bow to her demand to pay the whole amount. She can take her time to deliver the animal or might refuse to sell it in the end and return your money at her own time. I would definitely hold on to my money and demand that the earlier arrangements still stand.
2 people like this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
That's what I told her. That I thought it was much more appropriate to wait until she delivered the animal before paying the balance. I feel that she already has more than enough up front to guarantee thath she will be paid the balance when she arrives. Unfortunately, I now have one more complication. My Gramma just passed away and the services are on that same day. Unexpected, but I obviously have to go. So, I have emailed her to ask if she can deliver her the following day...Sunday OR first thing in the morning that day, as I will be too busy doing my chores in the morning and then the afternoon is shot with the services and all. I have to honour my 92 yr old Gramma. I loved her very much and she will be missed. The entire family will be there, and we don't all see each other very often, either, because we all live so far away from each other.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Apr 10
Wait until she arrives with the animal. If she doesn't show, take her to small claims court for the $400.
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
That would require an address to serve her. I have looked on the telephone directory and there is nobody with that name in that area listed, so they must have an unlisted number. I should have known better, I am an idiot.
2 people like this
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Apr 10
There's always one of those online people searches... Hopefully it's not a fake number (throwaway or something)... But if you sent the money via paypal and it's a scam,you may have recourse through them.
1 person likes this
• Canada
8 Apr 10
I just deposited the $400 in her bank account, so I have that information and her email.
2 people like this
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
8 Apr 10
I am thinking she used the money, now needs more to bring you the animal probably or she is trying to take you for even more and you end up with nothing..and it would be hard to do anything about it since you don't have no real information on this person. I would make her stick to the agreement..otherwise you might not end up with nothing...but I am curious..can they change their minds and still keep the money? I know you said if you did they could keep it..
1 person likes this
• Canada
8 Apr 10
Not legally, no. If she changes her mind, she has to return the deposit. But if I don't know how to contact her other than email, I can't find her to ensure I get it back. And I think part of the reason that she sold this animal at such a low price, was because she needed the money. So, me holding out until she shows up with the animal should give her even more reason to deliver her. So, she will get the balance as soon as possible. *fingers crossed*
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
8 Apr 10
Knocks on wood..I hope you get your dog soon...
1 person likes this
• Canada
8 Apr 10
, it is a horse sweetie.
@SomeCowgirl (32270)
• United States
7 Apr 10
I think that you are right to demand that she bring the animal. To me it seems as if in a way she is trying to hide something about the animal, maybe a bad injury, or something of the sort. If she is not willing to bring the animal then what would you do? After all you didn't refuse the animal nor did you change your mind, so her keeping the deposit would not be fair at all.
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Well, my understanding of the law in this country and this province, is that when you enter into an agreement with someone, and you give them a deposit, if the person (ME) who gave the deposit changes their mind before the transaction can be completed, the receiver of the deposit (HER) get to keep the deposit. That is actually the whole point of the deposit, to secure the item for yourself. It proves your intent to pay for it. And I fully beleive that I have proven myself now, and it is her turn. Not my turn to prove some more. Now, if SHE refuses the complete the transaction, then, yes, she must give me back my deposit.
2 people like this
@SomeCowgirl (32270)
• United States
7 Apr 10
Well let's just hope that she will come with the animal and if not that she will atleast give you back the deposit.
1 person likes this
• Regina, Saskatchewan
7 Apr 10
Annie, it's my understanding that your deal was, you pay a deposit, she delivers and you pay the balance. She is now changing the contract between you and the law does not allow that. So if you can't get her to keep to the original contract, then you sue her butt. You've done it before and won and I have no doubt you can do it again.
2 people like this
@Lakota12 (42684)
• United States
3 May 10
I would wait to delivery of the animal then pay her in full if animal is just what you ordered!
1 person likes this
• Canada
3 May 10
That is what I did. I held out, until she delivered her here to me, and then paid her in full what we agreed for the balance on the purchase price and the delivery fee. She is beautiful! I am very pleased with her.
@Lakota12 (42684)
• United States
4 May 10
very cool glad you like her and all worked out!
@erikmama (12929)
• United States
8 Apr 10
First I think you that is the agreement was made to deliver on the 10th then it should be delivered on the 10th.Maybe the agreement could have been a little clearer.Maybe she wanted to have it paid in full before that time. I do not think you should pay any more money.I would first want to see what I was buying, and sonce it is oneline,make sure theere really is something for you to buy! There are so many scammers out there you never can tell!! These types of situations really suck,but I hope there is something of some sort in writing between the two of you!
1 person likes this
• Canada
8 Apr 10
Well, that is one of the reasons I like dealing through emails, as it IS in writing. Verbal communication can be forgotten, twisted or misunderstood more often. And argued thus. She just emailed me back last night, and confirmed she will be delivering her on the 10th, in the morning, so fingers crossed it all goes well.
@erikmama (12929)
• United States
8 Apr 10
Oh yeah...I didn't think about the emails last night when I posted my response! In my defense I was very tired! LOL! Glad there is something.To many people use verbal and get screwed. I am glad that the situation is being properly hand;ed so let us know if you get the animal!
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Hi! Sounds to me like this might be a fraud. I wouldnt send out all of the money before I see the animal. I think the seller will refuse to deliver and you'll lose your $400. But better to lose that amount than lose the whole amount. Id contact the police first and explain it all. I cant understand why you didnt take more information on that person first. You need to have a phone number and an address at least! Hope it all turns out well for you.
1 person likes this
@Lindalinda (4112)
• Canada
8 Apr 10
Hi Annie, You are in a bit of a dilemma. My son used to buy quite a few things online and the usual convention was that he had to pay both the full price and the shipping up front. Check the terms of the seller. They should be posted on his/her website. If it says pay up front and take delivery after I guess you have no choice.
@anne25penn (3310)
• Philippines
8 Apr 10
I would suggest that you wait until the animal arrives. Its not like you haven't paid a deposit on the animal, you have already given the seller $400 so it is fair for you to wait until the seller sends you the item. I am starting an online business and I have learned that if something doesn't feel or look right, there is a chance that you might be scammed. I almost purchased a stock of CDs from an online seller and wondered why my Paypal payments wouldn't process. I contacted the seller and they said that I had to just pay them via Western Union, which was not right. I did a little more research and found out that they were scam sellers. If I had not found out about it, I would've lost $200.
• Canada
8 Apr 10
Glad you sussed the scammers out before you lost your $200. Sounds like you will do well with your online business. She just emailed me to confirm delivery on Saturday, so here's hoping all goes as planned.
7 Apr 10
Hi Annie, I wouldn't pay her a cent untill she deliver the anilmal, it is called C.O.D, cash on delivery, if you have any paper work, you can sue her if she don't deliver, this is so bad. Tamara
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Thanks Tamara. I do not feel it is right for her to be asking for any more money from me at this point. IF I decided that after the animal arrived, that I did not want it any longer, then I would be backing out of the deal, so she would have every right to keep my $400. Although, if it was for some health problem or anything she described her to be and she was not, I would expect that she would have to give me the whole deposit back, as that is not 'good faith'. I have shown 'good faith', so I don't understand why she is expecting me to do more, particularly when she doesn't even have to wait for a cheque to clear. I have promised her cash when she arrives. I don't think anybody could ask for more. *sigh*
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Can I just say , are you sure you want to do this? It sounds kind of crazy, I'd want to see the animal first to make sure it's not sick. What happens if it is, why wouldn't you just go to petsmart or the pound for an animal. I apologise for being blunt. But I think this is kind of crazy.
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
It is a horse, not a dog or cat. And this particular type and colour combination are fairly rare and usually very expensive. The price was amazing and they are only 2 hrs from me, so they are supposed to deliver her themselves.
1 person likes this
• Philippines
7 Apr 10
You already paid almost half the price. I think your demand is just right. Those pictures aren't enough if it was me either. I'd demand the same thing.
1 person likes this
• Canada
7 Apr 10
Thanks for your opinion. I needed some more backup support to make sure I wasn't being too demanding. I mean, I don't want to piss her off, but I also need to protect my interests, too. I've been stupid enough already, I think, in trusting her with a huge deposit before even having touched the animal.
1 person likes this