Christian Scientists?

United States
July 18, 2010 12:56am CST
So this may seem like a dumb question, but are there most likely not many Christian scientists? I gather this because when looking at all the science all the proven theories everything pointing to evolution, it would be almost impossible for them to believe right? I just wonder how it's so easy for most people to just believe with no question. I think everything in life should be questioned. That is how we learn, how we explore. When a baby takes his first step, he is questioning himself, can i make it from point a to point b, or can I get to my mom or that toy, that's how we learn. Question...even if the question over all may seem stupid or completely minimal.
4 people like this
19 responses
@EvanHunter (4028)
• United States
19 Jul 10
There are lots of scientist who believe that there is no way that things just randomly occurred. The more that science has grown the more that people who were devote believers in the theory of evolution say there is no way things just happened and that there is an intelligence in the order of all things. Most quantum physicist now believe that everything in our universe is made up of waves and that consciousness is the underlying connection that makes up everything. So who's consciousness is it? I think if you blindly accept evolution as being the only possibility than you are being no different than fundamental Christians especially when there is so much evidence that refutes it. The theory should be based on the evidence not throw the evidence out because it doesn't fit the theory. When I see a explanation for the fossilized human finger that was found along the banks of the Paluxy River that was near the tracks that appeared to be human that were previously dismissed as being nothing more than eroded dinosaur prints than I will believe that it is being scientifically observed. Until the time that the theory fits the evidence than its not scientific.
1 person likes this
• United States
19 Jul 10
"Most quantum physicists now believe that everything in our universe is made up of waves..." Pretty much accurate as far as it goes: things act at waves of probability until you measure them, at which point they stop acting like waves and start acting like particles. "...and that consciousness is the underlying connection that makes up everything" I think you're going to look long and hard for many. let alone most, quantum physicists who wouldn't laugh in your face at such a statement -- at best. As to the "fossilized finger" found next the the fraudulent "human tracks" at the Paluxy, debunked here: http://paleo.cc/paluxy/finger.htm
• United States
19 Jul 10
Barry E. Martin, Ph.D. The Matter Myth: Quandaries of Modern Physics "Experiments in quantum physics suggest that the world (the universe) is not made of objects at all, rather it is created out of probability waves." Sir Roger Penrose - 'consciousness itself has a link to the strange quantum realm' David Albert, Ph.D- "I don't like how human consciousness is being pressed as the center of everything material when the consciousness is what makes up everything material including ourselves" - Radio interview. Amit Goswami, Ph.D "the world is made of consciousness, world is consciousness, the ground is consciousness, quantum physics makes this clear as day light" John Hagelin, Ph.D "unified field theory based on super string identify a single universal field of intelligence, an ocean of existence of the basis of everything mind and matter, all the so called particles of the universe the forces of our universe, everything in our universe are just ripples on that ocean of existence. That's the unified field and that field is a non material, it is ultimately the field of consciousness" I guess they would have to laugh at these guys first maybe they should revoke their PhD's for saying what they did? The only argument against the evidence found is the persons beliefs of the finder. I don't care who comes forward with any evidence the scientific community is blind to agree with anything out of the norm just like digs sites that prelude clovis first. That is not a scientific method of anything other than we can't change our theory so it must be wrong.
• United States
20 Jul 10
The Martin quote appears to be someone's lecture notes instead of anything direct. Can you give a proper cite? Dr. Albert is on record that he was selectively edited in order to present his views as exactly opposite to what they actually are. Dr. Albert does not believe there is a connection between Quantum Mechanics and consciousness or spirituality. Drs. Hagelin and Goswami, respectively known for running the political arm of the Transcendental Meditation guru and for being in the movie that misrepresented Dr. Albert gives you... two. Two is not "many" physicists by any measure. Thanks for confirming my hypothesis.
@ruperto (1552)
• Philippines
18 Jul 10
It seems there are three (tangible) characters in this scenario... the scientist, he believer and the observer ... Perhaps the scientist makes no conclusions on what can not be measured or assessed by grounded theory. On the other hand, the believer insists on certain beliefs that a scientist is "probably not allowed to believe" while the observer "knows" just by observing that there has to be a metaphysical Invisible Intelligent Energy that makes all things possible. What do you think?
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Jul 10
This sounds about right. That is somewhat why I asked this question. For people to say why or why it's not probable. I think saying that anything is possible is not believing in God, it's not disbelieving either but, close enough.
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (31672)
• Canada
23 Jul 10
I just want to make sure that I understand what you are saying: Are you saying that a scientist cannot be a Christian? Or a Christian cannot be a scientist?
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (31672)
• Canada
23 Jul 10
I found this on Wikipedia concerning Sir Isaac Newton: "Though he is better known for his love of science, the Bible was Sir Isaac Newton's greatest passion. He devoted more time to the study of Scripture than to science, and he said, "I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by those who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."[8] He spent a great deal of time trying to discover hidden messages within the Bible. After 1690, Newton wrote a number of religious tracts dealing with the literal interpretation of the Bible. In a manuscript Newton wrote in 1704 in which he describes his attempts to extract scientific information from the Bible, he estimated that the world would end no earlier than 2060. In predicting this he said, "This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fanciful men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, and by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail."[9]" Wikipedia
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Jul 10
There are lots of Christian scientists (not to be confused with Christian Scientists.) It's only people who have trouble understanding the Bible as poetry instead of a physics text that are rare as scientists.
• United States
18 Jul 10
To me? The bible is a set of myths that were collected across a number of centuries and then underwent a series of cobblings together into a narrative that supported the political agenda of each in the series of cobblers. I do not regard it as a source of truth or knowledge in any spiritual sense. What I meant by the Bible being poetry instead of a physics text is that the many people who wrote the many documents that became the bible, as well as the many people that later edited and translated those documents, wrote poetry rather than literal truth.
• United States
19 Jul 10
I see. Well thanks for the explanation. That's a very interesting perspective. I am constantly wondering about the truth of our existence but I think that it's something we just weren't meant to find out.
• Canada
19 Jul 10
I have to disagree. If you reduce the Bible to myth, poetry, alagory, you can argue that it means whatever you want it mean and you have no real basis for your faith. This road leads to madness! Obviously some parts of the Bible are poetry and some have hidden meanings and even codes but that doesn't mean that their face value meanings are wrong. Then the Bible isn't a physics book but the main scientific problem seems to be with biology. I really wish that Genesis just said that God created heaven and Earth and then skipped the details. However it doesn't and people get into a lot of arguments over it.
@1hopefulman (31672)
• Canada
19 Jul 10
There are more scientists that believe in God than those that don't. There are more people that believe in God than those that don't. That's a fact. Evolution is far from being proved. Questions are good. Answers are better. When it comes to evolution so far there is zero percent proof and one hundred percent unproved speculation. Unless you make evolution a powerful almighty god that can do anything.
• Canada
20 Jul 10
I counter with: When it comes to god, and religions, so far there is zero percent proof and one hundred percent unproved speculation ;) It is always hilarious when religious folks throw out "lack of proof" as an argument FOR their religion. And, for the record, there is far more evidence for evolution than there could ever be for a god. Evidence for evolution includes: 1. A fossil record of change in earlier species 2. Chemical and anatomical similarities of related life forms 3. Geographic distribution of related species 4. The recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations Evidence for god: 1. Because humans say so. You see, the beauty of scientific theories is that they are constantly being compared and challenged objectively based on evidence in the natural world. It's constantly trying to prove it's assertions and rejects implausible explanations - for example, 'god did it.'
• Canada
20 Jul 10
Surely all the reports of paranormal phenomena over the centuries is evidence for God. What about the Biblical prophecies which have come true or sound suspiciously as if they're talking about things the writers shouldn't have known about? How have the Jews survived all these centuries of persecution if there wasn't something very special about them? Then some would say the fact that we life and humans exist is evidence for God. You certainly can't claim that humans saying so is all there is!
@1hopefulman (31672)
• Canada
22 Jul 10
Prophecy #1 Isaiah 40:7-8 (New Living Translation) 7 The grass withers and the flowers fade beneath the breath of the Lord. And so it is with people. 8 The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever.” This was written about 2700 years ago. Men have come and men have gone. Wise men have come and wise men have gone. Even today, the Bible is still the number one best seller. The Bible has been forbidden, attacked, burned, discredited, and criticized but it is still here. It will continue to exist as Isaiah said that the the word of God stands forever. So it was written and so it shall be! Note! More prophecies will follow.
1 person likes this
• Canada
20 Jul 10
Time is an illusion, just a product of how we perceive space-time. Most the mass of the universe is mysterious dark energy. Most the rest is mysterious dark matter. There are thought to be multiple universes. Scientists can't explain mass or reconcile quantum physics, Neutonian physics and relatively. In fact scientists now know that they don't know most things. Then there are all those reports of paranormal phenomena - it seems unlikely that none of them are caused by something unknown. Some have been explained as ball lightening but scientists have now concluded that ball lightening doesn't exist! There are weird things like Salamanders being able to re-grow removed eye lenses or embryos being able to sort themselves out in spite of all sorts of weird messing with. Many Biblical prophecies have come true. The Bible's been found to contain complicated codes that require computers to find them. It must take an awful lot of faith to be an atheist!
• United States
21 Jul 10
I direct your attention to the Feynman lectures -- quantum and classical (Newtonian) mechanics have been reconciled for decades. But, by all means, keep rocking that God of the Gaps argument!
• United States
22 Jul 10
Feynman lectures didn't resolve any of the problems in quantum field it only gave the opinion that one day it will be resolved but until that time continue on. It would be interesting if Feynman was still alive today to see what he would think of the current string theory and M theory. Theories to explain less than 2% of everything matter and leaves out well over 98% (or 99.9999999% depending on if you buy some theories or not) is some pretty big gaps if anything the quantum field has just shown us how little we as humans know or understand.
• United States
22 Jul 10
@Graptopetalum: Why do you think no one had ever seen a comet strike the earth before 90 (or 70) CE? You've never heard of the Uncertainty principle?
@barehugs (8986)
• Canada
18 Jul 10
I am not religious, and one of the deep reasons for this is "Faith!" if "Faith," did not exist, would there be any Christians? I doubt it, because no physical evidence has ever been found, that can prove the life of Jesus in the Holy Land of Palestine! Faith is just a feeling, brought on by giving over one's intelligence, and reasoning ability to a Higher Power, that may, or may not, exist in heaven, which itself may, or may not exist!
• United States
19 Jul 10
I agree. I like to devote my time to things that I know for sure with my own two eyes, ears, and other senses exist for sure. Like my two little girls and the other wonderful things in my life.
• Canada
19 Jul 10
It's rare to find physical evidence of an individual's life. However there is the James ossuary. This has been declared a fake because (it was claimed) that the patina showed that the words "James son of Joseph" had been added. This, it was argued, proved that the words "brother of Jesus" had been added - talk about objective science! I suppose there's also the so called Jesus tomb but this actually poses problems for Christianity if you believe that it did contain Jesus's ossuary (the wording on this is very hard to read and I'm not at all convinced that it really says "Jesus son of Joseph"). However this tomb may well have been used by early Christians (hence the number of ossuaries baring Jesus related names). The ossuaries of some other Biblical characters like Ananas the priest and Simon of Cyrene have been found. Then there's the tomb in the Church of the Holy Sepulcre and some other items claimed to be related to Jesus, including the shroud of Turin. This evidence may be questionable but it's overly simplistic to claim that there's NO evidence.
• United States
19 Jul 10
@Graptopetalum: Given that the alleged Jesus tomb identifies the "Jesus son of Joseph" as having a wife and child, there are indeed problems posed for Christianity. The shroud of Turin has been pretty much conclusively shown to be a thirteenth century hoax. @Ezra710: In the absence of a body, how do you prove Jesus was ever buried in that tomb?
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
20 Jul 10
How does evolution deny creation? If theory is an exposition of the abstract principles of a science, a hypothesis, how does that prove there is no God?
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
20 Jul 10
Could you prove it, please?
• Canada
20 Jul 10
Nobody has ever shown how life started and now scientists are invoking panspermia, life being transported to Earth from elsewhere. Nobody has ever proven a change from one major group to another. The one normally pointed to is the change from birds to dinosaurs but as many scientists now think they're basically the same group, this doesn't really work. The only way to really prove evolution is to have a big bang in a God-free universe and see if life still appears.
@Ezra710 (137)
• United States
19 Jul 10
Much of the scientific community is out to prove that evolution is the only way that life could have come in to being. Despite scientific evidence in all fields proving otherwise. They have now reverted to discrimination and religous bigotry to keep all of the facts from being made known. There are many scientists who believed in evolution that are now working as creation scientists, you just don't see much of their work published in the most noted journals. It is very difficult for a scientist to prove the theory of something that only ever happened one time. Send me a message and I can return to you some information that can answer some of your questions regarding the Creation/evolution debate. There are evolutionists claiming to be non-religous, however evolution is considered a foundational belief in the religion of humanism.
@Ezra710 (137)
• United States
19 Jul 10
No, it is a one time event. A slime pit, somehow magically brought forth life. Then began evolution. Monkeys do not continue to evolve into people, fish do not continue to evolve into land based mammals. My answer is that there IS a 2% difference. Explain the 2%. Closely rated? Hmmmm,yeah, just closely related. Why doesn't a dog drive down to the vets and get his own tatoo or identification chip implanted into his body. Ask a pet owner and they'll say ,"Oh my little Sparky he is just like a person." Trouble is little Sparky can't take any self improvement courses, or go get a job to help pay for his room and board. or pay for his own health ccare. God gave man dominion over every living thing upon the earth. That is the 2% difference. There has been evolutionary changes in a specific species, but evolution has never been proven to be the basis of all life. It is only a theory and a false religion. Someime take a trip to Glen Rose, Texas and check out the Creation Evidence Museum or go to Petersburg, Kentucky and see the Creation Museum.
@Angelgirl16 (2177)
• United States
18 Jul 10
Hi natnickeep, Some of those scientists were probably true believers before their views changed. I don't personally believe in evolution. I stand on my faith and the evidence that I have experienced in my life, to prove to me and people that know me that evolution will not be part of my thinking. I am closed minded on that. I have seen too much of the impossible made possible and I would be a fool to let go now. We have the gift of free thinking, so for those who believe in evolution, that's fine and for those who believe in christianity, that's fine too. One thing is for sure, someone is wrong.
• United States
18 Jul 10
What is the "evidence" that led you to this conclusion? I am just curious.
• Canada
19 Jul 10
It's often stated that chimps (I think more accurately bonobos) have 98% the same DNA as humans. I've never heard exactly what this means. Did they compare the entire genome or just a certain part of it and which? Bonobos (and I think all apes) have 48 chromosomes while humans have 46 - how is this reflected in the 98% figure? The fact that such obviously different creatures have such similar DNA, when it's thought that there have been about 10 species (presumably on each side which would make a change of 0.1% per species) since our latest common ancestor, actually seems to be a logistical problem for evolution rather than proof.
@eileenleyva (10971)
• Philippines
18 Jul 10
nat, it is easy for Christians to believe because God has already put order for our existence. Scientists and researchers had observed both the universe and under the deep sea life and had come to the conclusion about how great the order there is to both. The questioning comes from man's irrepressible and continuing imagination and fantastic ideas!
• United States
18 Jul 10
Well thanks for your response. How do you know for sure it is him that ordered our existence. Are you sure it's not mostly because this is what you were brought up to believe? What about the Adam and Eve story, do you really think they were the first humans with all the scientific evidence of evolution. Do you just believe in God or is the bible exactly as people interpret also? Do you think Jesus was a man? Just questions I have for believers, I just don't understand. With all the scientific info available it's hard for me to believe this.
1 person likes this
@eileenleyva (10971)
• Philippines
18 Jul 10
nat, we have studied subjects such as Science, Social Studies, Literature, Language, Mathematics, Physical Education, Religion and Home Economics in formal school. That is why we could correspond here in mylot. We are supposedly "the learned!" I am sure that in our years of studying, we had debated upon all the questions you have asked in this discussion. If these were not dealt upon in high school Biology, well, the Physics teacher could have also explained the force. By now we must have learned what scientists contend "Where Science ends, religion begins!" Addendum: Of course my premise there was not exclusive for those who had completed high school. There are exceptional mylotters here who are undergrads. They simply are gifted!
@rappeter13 (5298)
• Romania
19 Jul 10
Why do you question everything so much? What will you gain? If something good happens to you, do you question that or simply accept it? I am sure that when something bad happens to you, you always ask yourself: why me? I have an answer for you: it is you for not to be somebody else. My advice: don't make that many questions, accept things, otherwise you will be always restless and never be satisfied with yourself. I think this is the goal of life: to be satisfied with yourself and accept things as they are. It is useless to be concerned about things that you cannot influence. If something bad happens, than try to fix it and don't make to many questions. It is useless, it won't change anything and damages your health. And I don't believe that scientist are nonbelievers, even Einstein was a believer. So live your life and don't waste it on being restless and concerned.
• Canada
20 Jul 10
This is the worst advice I have ever heard. "Don't question anything, just accept it." Very 1984 Orwellian and very scary... are you a politician, by any chance? And no, Einstein was NOT a believer, he came out and said that he was misquoted. In a 1954 letter written in English, he stated, "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions. I do not believe in a personal god."
@bounce58 (17524)
• Canada
18 Jul 10
Although I agree that everything should be questioned, I think there are a few things in life we leave to faith. I work in quality, and everything has to be questioned to have continuous improvement. Still I see faith work in mysterious ways, that make a person or a company become successful. Don't get me wrong, I am far from religious, but I think that 'leap (of faith') is often the last step to success. In whatever endeavor we are at, including science. I once heard from a talking head on TV discussing about religion: as scientists climb the mountain of truth, they were surprised to see a bunch of religious people already camped there.
• United States
19 Jul 10
Thanks for your response. Everyone does have a right to their own opinion. I believe some people get lucky in being successful but most people have to work for it. I think karma is a big part of it. The energy we put out, the energy that the people we surround ourselves with put out. If it's mostly good we have positive around us, good things happen to us. And if we do bad then the opposite. I think religion, faith, fate, karma, it's all more scientific then we know.
18 Jul 10
Have you heard about the ecological theories on how the child develops affects of a child development which evolve in the environment they live in or in genetic or biologically influenced personality traits on how children treat as they grow old.That is exactly what they are doing its is the healing process and how you motivate the childhood of the children base on what you are teaching and showing all the facts in life. form some they believe on something because of there faith within.
• United States
19 Jul 10
Yes I believe the whole idea of religion and church is a good idea a good bases to run your life on. Like the ten commandments, those are the way we should live our life. Not because I am a believer but because I believe in karma. I think God or the idea of him helps a lot of people stay sane and in control of their life. But it's just not for me. I try to teach my kids to always wonder. And if they don't know the answer for themselves to try and find out. I have heard many theories about child development. I think there are a lot of factors that shape our childhood and how we see the world.
• India
18 Jul 10
I completely agree with you over the questioning thing. One has to question, if he desires to learn. As the saying goes, its the inquisitive mind that learns and sees unseen and unheard things. Question to Learn. Cheers :)
• United States
19 Jul 10
Thanks for your response. Glad to see some people do have an opening and questioning mind.
• Canada
18 Jul 10
Hi natnickeep I aswell as many other, such as yourself, have noticed this exact phenomenom that being that scienctist, intellectuals, and academics in general are not very religious. I wish i could remeber who conducted a survey on the worlds academics and itellectuals, pretty sure it was Times, and most of them about 80 percent of the had either agnostic or atheist leanings. Under 10 percent of them actually identified themselves with christianity, significant jewish represenation. While it may not necessarily be evolution that convinces them to break with religion, your're right, it is definitly their inqusitive and questioning nature thats causes them not to accept the world at face value. I think that people refusing to acknowledge questions as important as religion are depriving themselves of a large portion of their free will.
• United States
18 Jul 10
That's very interesting about the Times survey thing. I assumed it was a large percentage that probably were not religious. I think everything should be questioned unless you have seen it for yourself.
• India
23 Jul 10
I gather that Scientist are neither pro-Christianity nor anti. It's basically because religion and science address two different questions. In fact, I gather that religion grew in that intellectual climate nurtured by Christian worldview. It could be true because modern science did not grow in India or China. They grew in Christian Europe.
• United States
21 Jul 10
Christian scientists are perfectly fine. Who says God didn't create the mechanism of evolution, the fundamental guides for the rest of the creation of the universe? He could have set down a template for events to occur by. After all, the Bible is very vague. There are no specific details on creation, so one cannot assume that science must go against religion. Or faith.
• Philippines
21 Jul 10
Hello Nat, I don't believe in the creation, because evolution has more evidence, but still i believe in the Bible, for me, it's just guidance. i have read an article about a man who quit being atheist because he kept arguing, justifying himself, and end up in a bad situation all the time. he gave up and start believing in god again. as for your discussion, depends on the person interprets both principles in science and religion. i think it's safe to say, it would be an endless debate with out conclusion. but it's better if we read both sides, not just siding in one (religion/science) i can observe, interpret or have faith.
@shobhan51 (376)
• Malaysia
20 Jul 10
To me, everything is related. Matter and energy have a relationship. One does not exists without the other. Likewise, the living world is related and interconnected to one another and to the non-living environment. Water, air, minerals, heat, sound, electrical and other forms of energy all have connections to human life and all other forms of life. The soul to me is a form of energy and the body is the machine which moves to the dictates of the mind and soul. The sun is the origin of all forms of matter and energy. So we cannot be surprised when some communities pray to the sun. Anyway, those who believe in Adam and Eve would definitely disapprove of the theory of evolution. To me there is definitely adaptation to an everchanging environment by all forms of life commonly referred as biodiversity; but humans evolving from monkeys? That's a far cry. No doubt we may have very close connections and relationship to the apes as shown through DNA and studies on human genome. However this does not prove we evolved from apes. It's like saying since all mammals show close resemblances to organs and organ systems and the way they work, we humans evolved from all those mammals.