Pagans on the march-
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
United States
November 15, 2010 7:00pm CST
The following article was posted recently in another area that I chat on and I wanted to share it here for discussion:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1328968/Pagans-march--harmless-eccentrics-dangerous-cult.html
The following are quotes taken from the above article that concern me:
"Some people are more equal than others when it comes to the equality agenda, and it seems Christians are always at the back of the queue."
‘We are abandoning the values that make us who we are. You can’t chip away... at the foundations without the whole structure coming down."
"So is paganism really on the march in Britain? And even if it is, why are the BBC and the liberal Left establishment suddenly suggesting that it should be taken seriously — even to the extent of putting it on an equal footing with Christianity and other religions?"
?"Mike Judge, spokesman for the Christian Institute, says: ‘The BBC down-plays Christianity and up-plays paganism which is unreflective of British society. It creates an atmosphere where it’s OK to marginalise Christians.’
?"Modern-day pagans draw on Celtic imagery, and often worship the occult."
I have many thoughts that came to mind as I read the article but one of them was that there seems to be a group of people who seem to think that if you are not "Christian" you are not equal to them and do not deserve equal treatment. Does this not go against the very teachings of the Christ? It certainly seems contrary to the Christ Consciousness. I'm not from the UK so I have no hands on experience with this sort of thought over there, is it truly like this?
What are your thoughts? Do you feel that this article fairly represents both sides? Is it simply reflective of a fundamentalist attitude? Is there a fear of others outside one's own faith? What do we do as human beings to foster common human decency regardless of one's spiritual beliefs?
Namaste-Anora
6 people like this
11 responses
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
16 Nov 10
I do feel that the modern pagan is not someone who believed in worshipping idols but more like nature worshippers. Most of what I hear does suggest the old Celtic beliefs in second sight, etc, I do believe that the BBC is anti-Chrstian and thinks that other beliefs are better. That includes Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, and what ever. So they are probably trying to give all beliefs except Christianity equal footing.
However that might not be what is happening in society. In other words, the Media wants society believe there are more pagans, Muslims etc then there really are. And less Christians. It is the same thing as what the Media portrays on TV shows in America. They give people the impression that the bosses of corporations are all Black when it is not so and the boss can be any ethnic group.
Lets put it down to the BBC's wishful thinking.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 Nov 10
You know I was almost tempted to put town 'human' when they asked what race I belonged to. The trouble is that one cannot trust the media. It may like Pagans now, but it also liked Buddhists, before that Roman Catholics, and so on going back. And are there not different classes of pagans? And is there not a place where you have to explain the 'other' on the census forms?
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
17 Nov 10
Good point that the media often tries to shape societies reality. I remember reading an article by the late Issac Bonewits who stated that he felt the pagan community would never be truly accounted for because a great many pagans keep to themselves. I have to say I suspect that to be very much the truth. Even on the census is everyone really going to say what they are? We'd all be classified as "other" on most census information.
Namaste-Anora
2 people like this
@hvedra (1619)
•
18 Nov 10
Ah, I love those forms where they ask for "ethnicity" because most of them have no clue what that means and think it is the same as Nationality - which it isn't, you can have numerous ethnicities in one Nation and more than one Nation with the same ethnicity...
You are right that there are many different types of Pagans, the difference is even more marked than with the various Christian denominations. Having "pagan" on a census or other official form really doesn't tell you anything about what that persons real spiritual path is.
If I had to put that on, say, a hospital admission form and they sent some crushed-velvet wearing, crystal waving, love-and-light new ager to minister to me, I'd probably hit 'em with a bed pan!
1 person likes this
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Doesn't England still have an taxpayer-funded national Church? Tell thee clowns to get real!
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
That's a good question Metallion. I'm waiting to see if any of my other UK friends on the other site respond so I can find out. I always thought the UK was a bit more liberal than the US. 
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Hvedra-
Thanks for stopping by! 
I knew we'd get to the bottom of it somehow. I wasn't impressed with some of the quotes by pagans in the article either because they seemed either on the fringe from those I am friends with, or those who were making jokes not realizing they'd be quoted as fact on those quotes. Thanks for clearing up that this particular magazine is a tabloid.
Namaste-Anora
I knew we'd get to the bottom of it somehow. I wasn't impressed with some of the quotes by pagans in the article either because they seemed either on the fringe from those I am friends with, or those who were making jokes not realizing they'd be quoted as fact on those quotes. Thanks for clearing up that this particular magazine is a tabloid.
Namaste-Anora1 person likes this
@hvedra (1619)
•
16 Nov 10
We have an official church - the Church of England - but it isn't taxpayer funded. The CofE refused to comment when the Daily Fail asked them about Paganism - basically not getting drawn into an argument especially with one of the worst tabloids on Earth "quoting" them. Generally they are fairly moderate in their views and don't tend to foam at the mouth or preach hellfire and damnation.
The Christian Institute is a group of Fundies (they are somewhat vague on their website about exactly who they are and their membership). The kind of people tabloids like to ring up and get a quote from because they'll be "outraged" about just about anything.
@rogue13xmen13 (14403)
• United States
16 Nov 10
I have some friends who are Pagan and Wiccan and we all live in the U.S.A. The reason why it has been making a come back is because people are disgusted with the Christian religion and they want to go back to their roots.
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Rogue-
I gather fear is a lot of what is motivating some of the statements. I turned to my current path when I realized there was something larger than "organized" religion. What is interesting is that some of those who make said statements as in the article (on both sides) are simply unaware or ignorant of the history of the church in general. Even I have learned much in the last 10 years of my life about just how connected the church is to paganism.
Namaste-Anora
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
21 Nov 10
Constantine was a smart man. He knew that by creating a national religion marrying state and church would give him full command of his entire empire. And bringing paganism into the new expanding Christian faith was well played considering Constantine was pagan himself.
1 person likes this
@rogue13xmen13 (14403)
• United States
21 Nov 10
Yes, most people don't know, but if you read Chaucer and many of the text that were around from that era, Paganism and Christianity were practically married to one another. You couldn't have converted people to Christianity without Pagan beliefs and adapting them into the religion. People pray to saints for a reason and if you think about it, aren't saints Catholic versions of minor gods in Pagan religions.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
17 Nov 10
Hi Anora,
I am in the states so I don't know much about what really goes on in the UK. It does seem biased and ridiculous for sure. I know there are many people who tend to feel that way even here in the US. I am of no denomination but I have to say that I am very interested in the Pagan and wiccan religion and find it beautiful. I made a Wiccan Incense burner at a customer's suggestion and it sold immediately. So I made another and another. Last week I sold one to a girl who bought it for her mom. She asked me if I was Wiccan. I told her that I wasn't but that I was surprised at how quickly these burners sold. She informed me that most of them around here keep it to themselves because people aren't very accepting of them which I found sad.
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
17 Nov 10
Sid-
I'm from the US as well and know what you mean. It's very sad indeed that we all just cannot get along and be happy. I had no idea you made censors, I shall have to see your products!! My husband makes jewelry that he blesses and infuses with energies but we're not Wiccan per se.
Namaste-Anora
I had no idea you made censors, I shall have to see your products!! My husband makes jewelry that he blesses and infuses with energies but we're not Wiccan per se.
Namaste-Anora1 person likes this
@celticeagle (159008)
• Boise, Idaho
16 Nov 10
My but people are narrow minded now days. I am so amazed my dear friend. I have been watching Conspiracy Theory on Friday nights on TruTv and I am ashamed to say that in asking online and off friends whether they watch it or are at all concerned with Big Brother or Conspiracy Theory at how many have their proverbial heads stuck in the sand and are so aghast but take no proactive stance whatsoever. When the day actually comes I will be chuckling at the shocked faces as they are taken away to fusion centers, etc. For gads sake people, you don't have to necessarily agree or even believe just take the anitiative to check such things out. This article you have been nice enough to bring to our attention is just one more thing. 'Christians at the back of the queue'-what a laugh! And I loved the statement '‘The BBC down-plays Christianity and up-plays paganism which is unreflective of British society. It creates an atmosphere where it’s OK to marginalise Christians.’ Open your eyes. Read a history book. Christ Consciousness? What a joke!I live in Idaho. It is one of the most backward states in the US. I think we have more Mormons here per capita than anywhere else. Oh, don't get me started on that. Farely represents both sides? Don't think so. I think so many editors and writers use this platform to express their own views and really do not care about the other side. I am live and let live and open minded sort of person and this is just rediculous. It makes me glad I DONT live in the UK.
1 person likes this
@celticeagle (159008)
• Boise, Idaho
16 Nov 10
And why are things brought back into being? Because they work! Because they make sense.( To people who have sense! Hehe) Fear it could very well be. One reason I don't believe in organized religion. Hypocrits.
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
CE-
I am too at a loss. I live in a small town now and one has to be very careful how open one is, and yet it makes no sense to me now. I just do not get the rhetoric. Maybe Rogue is on to something, maybe it really is just fear as some of us return to our older ways.
Namaste-Anora
1 person likes this
@hvedra (1619)
•
16 Nov 10
First of all, the article is in the Daily Fail, so treat with caution. They had a wonderfully histronic one yesterday because a supermarket was selling Reindeer meat close to Christmas "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!". They have a lower standard of journalism than even the red-top tabloids like The Sun.
Whenever they find something they think is a bit weird, salacious or just different they'll publish an article on it trying to whip up outrage with the Hard of Thinking.
They'll go to a small, fundie org like the Christian Institute (who?) who are going to be outraged and preach doom and damnation regardless of the facts.
The fact is one of the Druid organisations has received Charitable Status from the Charities Commission and thus official recognition as a bona fide religion. That and the fact the BBC did a couple of small news items around Samhain looking at paganism and these nutters think it is the end of the world. The BBC is taxpayer funded and has a obligation to feature a variety of religions. Christianity is still the most featured with weekly programming but they also do items on Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism as well as the occasional item on less well-known faiths.
Of course, I'm sure the journalist *cough* did thorough research on everything considering she says she found out more by "posting on several message boards". Yeah, your Pulitzer is in the post...
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Hvedra-
Good thing I set my coffee down before reading your post. 
I am not from the UK, but have several friends there and as of yesterday they hadn't responded lol, but I'm sure they'll fill me in as you have about the nutters. Now that I know it's a tabloid I'd compare it to our own National Enquirer (who runs baby bigfoots all the time or baby aliens). I think the danger in such things is that if there are not those such as yourself that point it out some people actually believe that rubbish.
As I mentioned earlier, I didn't like some of the pagan interviews either because they seemed a bit on the fringe of those I know. I'm familiar with organizations such as the ADF and I've never seen members speak as some did for this "article". The one amusing quote that my husband and I are still chuckling over is the "worship the occult". The husband wrote "And just how does one worship 'the occult'". Got to love it!
Thanks again for the update about this particular paper.
Namaste-Anora
I am not from the UK, but have several friends there and as of yesterday they hadn't responded lol, but I'm sure they'll fill me in as you have about the nutters. Now that I know it's a tabloid I'd compare it to our own National Enquirer (who runs baby bigfoots all the time or baby aliens). I think the danger in such things is that if there are not those such as yourself that point it out some people actually believe that rubbish.
As I mentioned earlier, I didn't like some of the pagan interviews either because they seemed a bit on the fringe of those I know. I'm familiar with organizations such as the ADF and I've never seen members speak as some did for this "article". The one amusing quote that my husband and I are still chuckling over is the "worship the occult". The husband wrote "And just how does one worship 'the occult'". Got to love it!
Thanks again for the update about this particular paper.
Namaste-Anora1 person likes this
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
16 Nov 10
In recent years, England and other European countries have become "less and less christian". I doubt that they are as pagan as your link is trying to make them out to be. However, their apathy toward any form of religion will make is seem so. This is one of the reasons why it was so easy for the muslims to move in and literally take over large parts of the country. Long before England "becomes pagan", it will become muslim. This is much more frightening.
Shalom~Adoniah
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Adoniah-
The word 'frightening' is an interesting choice.
Namaste-Anora
@Hatley (163781)
• Garden Grove, California
16 Nov 10
anora hi I am in the U S and I call myself a Christian but I do not 'fear those who worship paganism or occult. as long as they areg
good citizens let them worship as theu please. Our country was founded
on religious freedom to worship as you desire..Live and let live has
always been my policy.Yes a lot of so called Christians do not live
their own religion. the article is very bieased is my own opinion.
the fundamentalists do not seem to think that any church that does not
agree with their take on religion is horrible. I think thats down right silly myself.
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Hatley-
I have to agree that it's just very silly to state that one is above another, especially when the teachings of a particular faith say to "love everyone". I think that is simply the effects of organized religion in general, but eh I still have a fool's hope that one day we'll all just get along. 
Namaste-Anora
Namaste-Anora @6precious102 (4043)
• United States
18 Nov 10
The fear that Christians have in regards to other groups is not of them, but for them. We know that there is one God and He's the only one who should be worshiped. We also know that no one comes to God except through Jesus Christ and that anyone who rejects Christ will be rejected by God. A true Christian has no reason to fear the pagan since we know that "greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world." Our fear is for these pagans who have lost their souls to Satan. But, as long as there is life, there is hope that the pagans will see the light and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
22 Nov 10
This was interesting. From where did you get your information?
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
22 Nov 10
Years of study in religion, and reading the actual texts.
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
21 Nov 10
6precious-
Do you know how the Christian faith came to be? Do you know that your religion is not the oldest religion and that is proven through archaeology? Even Theologians admit that Christianity is only one path, and simply not the oldest. Much of the stories of the Old Testament mirror the stories of the Epic of Gilgamesh, so they are not truly original.
As far as Pagans serving or worshiping "Satan" most do not believe in the Christian incarnation of the "Devil". The fact is the Christian Satan/Devil came to be by the combining of several Greek deities, most notably Pan. Artemis and Pan were worshiped even during the time that Christ walked the earth, well into when Paul was doing his ministries. The "Devil" as pictured in most drawings of the middle ages simply is the combination of the Pan's traits into something more sinister as a way for the Church to keep hold of the people. Current theologians and those who study the bible have noted that the word Satan comes from the Arabic word Shaitan meaning adversary. Lucifer means light bringer. Satan of the Old Testament was simply God's attorney. He was God's advocate and could do nothing without God's command. He could not do anything God didn't let him do. The entire book of Hosea addresses the fact that God is ultimately responsible for everything.
In terms of Lucifer it is Greek for light bringer and is used in the book of Revelation as a title for Jesus. Lucifer was originally a Greek god of the Sun. I am sure you can understand why most Pagans would not believe in the "Christian" version of these deities. Though LaVey has suggested Theism within the Church of Satan, his successor is against any sort of theism within the Church of Satan. However, there are many forms of Satanism and some of them do involve spiritual connections but not any of them to the "Christian" version of Satan and/or Lucifer.
Namaste-Anora
1 person likes this
@yugasini (12836)
• Anantapur, India
16 Nov 10
hi anora eldorath,
actually i could not understand all the discussion,but main thing it is once again about race,in my view all are equal,but some people will treat as separate if they are belong to other community,i say them as they does not know the civic sense,every saint told that all human beings are equal,have a nice day
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
16 Nov 10
Yugasini-
Exactly my friend we are all equal and we are all saints regardless of how we worship.
Namaste-Anora
