Herman Cain and separation of church and state

@gewcew23 (8011)
United States
July 19, 2011 10:49am CST
If there is two things I know about American conservatives, and I should since I use to be one, is that they love black conservatives and hate the concept of the separation of church and state. Why, well for the first supporting a black conservative protects them from being labeled as racist. As to the later they for some reason believe that a Christian version of the Taliban ruling the USA would be a great idea. Now what happens when both of them smash into each other. Well conservative darling Herman Cain said on Fox News Sunday that the Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state. Now grated he probably only cares about that when in comes to his desire to ban Mosque from being built, but I am just guessing on that one. I have an idea how about Herman Cain debate I am not a witch Christine O'Donnell over the concept of the separation of church and state, now that would be worth watching. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/17/herman-cain-fox-mosques_n_900939.html
1 person likes this
8 responses
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
19 Jul 11
"and hate the concept of the separation of church and state" Both modern liberals and modern conservatives are way off and very selective on this. Modern conservatives are all for your religious freedoms as long as you are Christian or Jewish. Modern liberals are all for your religious freedoms as long as you aren't christian or Jewish. "supporting a black conservative protects them from being labeled as racist" Utter nonsense and baseless speculation "As to the later they for some reason believe that a Christian version of the Taliban ruling the USA would be a great idea" Pretty sickening and offensive comparisson. While there are plenty of Christian conservatives who want to inject christian law in to civil law, I haven't heard about very many Christians flying planes in to buildings in the name of Jesus. "Herman Cain said on Fox News Sunday that the Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state." Herman Cain is wrong. "his desire to ban Mosque from being built" And he would violate the first amendment in trying to carry out this desire. "I am not a witch Christine O'Donnell" Now THIS I take great offense to. As a Pagan, I find your remark insulting and blatently biggoted.
2 people like this
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
19 Jul 11
"I haven't heard about very many Christians flying planes in to buildings in the name of Jesus." In fairness to the Taliban (never thought I'd say that) they didn't fly planes into buildings. They did however prevent women from even learning to read and supported public beatings and rape of women. "I am not a witch Christine O'Donnell" Now THIS I take great offense to. As a Pagan, I find your remark insulting and blatently biggoted." Isn't it sad that more than 300 years after the Salem witch trials a person can still be publicly ridiculed and attacked politically for having "dabbled in witchcraft"? They're clearly a minority, but apparently not a powerful enough minority to get the same special considerations and protections from people like Gewcew. For the life of me I can't remember the last time the any witchcraft or pagan religion was used as justification for a major crime, ie arson, murder, terrorism.
@xfahctor (14128)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
21 Jul 11
Yeh, I realized my faux pa after I hit submit :/....the point is the same though. Anyways, we Pagans haven't murdered anyone in the name of our religion for about a thousand years now, and in the case of Druids, the sacrifices were mainly volunteers. It was an honor. We are a minority, but we are a far more tolerant minority. We don't raise as much of a fuss over things. But I do draw the line at having my religion belittled.
@Adoniah (7515)
• United States
19 Jul 11
Just a wee bit off the wall here, don't you think???
• United States
19 Jul 11
The bible says marriage is between a man and a woman... you can't build a mosque on your own land... Hypocrisy at it's finest.
• United States
19 Jul 11
Except for those pesky Zoning laws that the communities come up with to define the difference between business and residential areas. The number one reason why you can't build a Mosque on your own land.
• United States
20 Jul 11
They aren't. But I used them for a specific purpose. To show that it is the local community government that sets up the laws/rules for the community. Kind of like all of those HOA violations you hear about in the news. The ones that want their neighborhood to look a certain way.
• United States
21 Jul 11
Yeah, I see your point there. That's okay to an extent, but it kind of becomes unconstitutional to set standards that violate other peoples liberties, what the real difference between between a standard for you community and the entire nation. Or what happens if Muslims decide to make their own community with different standards? It's one thing to say you can't try and run a business that's going to be disruptive all day and leave a hidden empty building conducive to criminal activity at night. It's another to say we don't like your religion get out of our town.
@wings143 (133)
• Philippines
20 Jul 11
about separation of the church and the state,the constitution has a lot to say about..and of course there are people who are against it or approve it.well for me,its just herman cain is using his right of this so called freedom of expression.and as to fulfill his desire well then he has to face the constitution.
@bobmnu (8160)
• United States
20 Jul 11
The Constitution says nothing about separation of church and state. Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. The constitution states that Congress shall not establish a religion nor shall they prohibit the free exercise of it. Some feel the intent of this amendment was to prevent Congress from declaring a state religion or to show favortisum to one religion over another. People are to be free to practice their religion. It does not say that the government can not celebrate religious events. The Supreme Court decided that.
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Jul 11
Separation of Church and State was actually a phrase coined by Thomas Jefferson in one of his letters. It was further taken up by the Supreme Court.
• United States
20 Jul 11
Indeed, Jefferson coined it in order to explain the purpose of the First Amendment.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
4 Mar 12
Maybe I'm to tired to see what is in front of my face, but I can't find the term separation of church and state in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. What I do see is: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I did find this tidbit: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/who2.htm This means, IMHO, that the government cannot sponsor or give preference to one particular religion; and they cannot prohibit the free exercise of any individuals religion, religion being the rituals, dogma and doctrine of a body of believers in said doctrine or dogma. Our country has long held to the practice of allowing consciencious objectors in war. John Kennedy's speech assuring the voters that his Catholicism would not mean the Pope would run Washington has recently been brought to light by GOP candidate Rick Santorum. I am not familiar with Mr. Santorum's speech so I will wait to weigh in on that. In JFK's speech we see a more modern twist to the idea of separation of church and state. I do not think JFK or Jefferson meant that people of faith had no say or any place in society or government. In fact, I think they realized (esp. Jefferson) that faith had its place in society and should be protected, not protested. Like forcing them to pay for something they are morally or philosophicaly opposed to, like birth control and abortions.
• United States
20 Jul 11
Gewcew23, you wouldn't happen to be from the Bible Belt would you? I totally understand the statement about the Christian version of the Taliban ruling the USA being a great idea...one has to experience it to believe it. Unless one has experienced the prejudice that is rampant in the Bible Belt one would have difficulty and take exception to the statements made in the original post. The concept of separation of Church and State came about when there were some ethical concerns over what appeared to be favoritism for those attending the correct church of the correct sect with the correct minister or priest. Sadly there are those who would bastardize this ethical concern into a religious vs nonreligious concern. In the Bible Belt it does matter what church you attend, it does matter who you are seen speaking with at that church...and it all reflects in the local politics and by relation to state and federal politics. The statement 'I am not a witch' is one that, as a pagan myself, I can't find reason to take issue with in regards to the poster...Witchcraft isn't the only paganism around, as a pagan I could take exception to those who seem to be pushing such an agenda...yet that would be a waste of energy which could be spent more productively in other pursuits. If a mosque were to be built at 'ground zero' in NY, MY, since it is a business district the zoning issue would be moot, the uproar over such a building is fear based, with a small percentage of the uproar being based on religious prejudices. As for a debate, I find that they are too stilted and sound planned, almost as though there is a rough draft of a script for most of them...what the politicians say and what they mean have vast gulfs in the middle...
@dragon54u (31615)
• United States
19 Jul 11
I was very disappointed when I heard that Cain said that people should be able to prevent a mosque being built. Is that what you were referring to? I can't vote for someone who truly believes that, because how long would it be before a Presbyterian church was rejected, or a Mormon church? This is a free country and when you restrict freedom of religion it ceases to be free very shortly thereafter.
@djbtol (5498)
• United States
19 Jul 11
It could be that he has no understanding of the origin of the seperation clause and what it means. Many, or even most, in Washington do not. What I like about many black conservatives is that they are not tied to playing the race card. A black conservative understands that racism is racism, even if initiated by a minority. He also understands that affirmative action is nothing more than racial discrimination. It has often been demonstrated that the liberals will only accept a minority or a woman if she has bought into the liberal agenda. Otherwise, she is thrown under the bus without a second thought. Liberals are sick!