Surprise declaration by the pope on slavery

@urbandekay (18312)
December 10, 2011 6:10am CST
The Roman Church originally sanctioned slavery, Thomas Aquinas arguing for it and Gregory IX incorporating it into cannon law and some Catholic clergy and religious orders owned and traded slaves. Furthermore, the first substantial shipment of slaves to America was at the request of Bartolomé the Bishop Las Casas. In fact it wasn't until recently that a pope came out against slavery. This reversal of doctrine and teaching in the Roman also occurs in the Orthodox OO and EO who both condoned slavery initially. So, 2 questions arise, 1. Is this sufficient evidence to refute papal infallibility 2. Would Jesus or the Apostle's condone slavery? all the best urban
3 responses
@veganbliss (3901)
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
That is wonderful news! A little late, but good that they have finally come around to it. I wonder what it was that caused them to change their minds? Have their members threatened to walk out on them? Those are some very interesting facts - well researched. If one were to read a detailed history of the Catholic Church, one would clearly see that it has flip-flopped quite frequently on matters of important doctrine acceptance or rejection. In one time period it canonizes, accepts and proclaims one line of doctrine or dogma and in another age it reverses the decision entirely. To argue it from their point of view, they believe such decisions were suitable for one set of people in one particular age and the opposite became necessary for the people in a later age. This view, however, does not justify individuals nor groups of people "ahead of their time" being charged with heresy, tortured until they recanted & branded with a cross seared into their backs & publicly murdered "to save their souls". So, on the surface, the church has an argument to back every decision of theirs. If we don't like the way they do business, then perhaps we should take our business elsewhere! Centuries of protesting against the way the Catholic Church is run have done very little to change it, so I don't know how much more our efforts here can do. I don't think we'd do too well in a court of law on the matter somehow. They've gotten away with it before and can do so again. As to your final question, it is very clear to me that Jesus and his disciples condemned slavery in all its forms and came to set the slaves free. It is also quite clear to me that St Paul, Timothy, Silas, Barnabas, etc directly opposed this view (and a great many other teachings of Jesus' as well as fundamental philosophy) and taught that we should submit to our earthly masters in all things and be content with our assigned lot.
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
Ah! That version made it!
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
11 Dec 11
Where do you find such teachings ? Set the slaves free or even condemn slavery ?
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
11 Dec 11
Yeah Paul is a pretty bad guy .I am thinking to start a new church and to remove all his letters from my bible because they are against what i think...oh wait i will also have to remove Luke`s Gospel since it was written by Paul`s follower Luke.Probably i will remove half of the new testament but i will get rid of that heretic. Good luck with that path veganbliss.Try to see if you can find some contradictions between the Son and the Father too. Btw who told you James is the brother of Jesus ? I don`t remember Jesus to have any brothers.Oh well it must be probably the same effect of the "sola scriptura." Come on it must be something that Jesus said against this unfair world.I`m sure he has seen a lot of injustice on this earth. Maybe he said something to the Canaanite woman who asked for help ( i think the Canaanites were black people ) Like " It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs." OMG can you imagine that heretic Paul saying something like this ? Saying about a black person that she is a dog ? I think he modified this passage too because he wanted you to think Jesus is a bad guy.
@Mashnn (4503)
10 Dec 11
I will go direct to your question no two about Jesus. I guess you do read bible because you seem to know much about Jesus but at the same time, I do question your belief in sense that, you can even dare ask whether Jesus would condone slavery. If I put the same question back to you. Do you think he would have supported slavery or not? I just cannot imagine you can even try to put Jesus in the whole issue to try and cover up the deeds of the "Holy Pop". Common, there is so much happening in catholic church that no one need to be told about it. It just so open to deny it.
@urbandekay (18312)
10 Dec 11
Hi Mashnn, no I do not think that Jesus or the Apostles would condone slavery, in fact I doubt that it is possible for anyone touched by the Holy Spirit to condone slavery. But I am not a Catholic, I try, though often fail, to follow Christ not the pope. So, what is happening in the Catholic Church that no one need to be told about and why should they not hear about it? all the best urban
@urbandekay (18312)
10 Dec 11
So the pope has not condemned the child abuse? all the best urban
@urbandekay (18312)
10 Dec 11
To put it another way; 1, The pope claims he is infallible on doctrinal pronouncements 2, The pope make a doctrinal pronouncement supporting slavery 3, The pope makes a doctrinal pronouncement against slavery 4, Since 2 and 3 are contradictory 1 cannot be true 5, Therefore, papal infallibility is false all the best urban
@veganbliss (3901)
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
I've tried to post here three times, modifying the text each time, but still nothing appears here - even after logging out & in again. I cannot think why. My only thoughts are that my posting is being reviewed prior to acceptance. I'll try again much later.