Why do the Orthodox and Roman Churches deny that Jesus had siblings

@urbandekay (18278)
December 11, 2011 1:08pm CST
The siblings of Jesus are mentioned in the Gospels of Mark and Matthew and indeed the early Church accepted this. Why then did the Orthodox and Roman Church deside that Jesus was an only child? all the best urban
4 people like this
11 responses
@JER616 (545)
• Philippines
16 Dec 11
I do not know of the Orthodox Church but for the roman catholic apostolic church, I have a hunch that they are denying Jesus' siblings because they want to impress on their believers that Mary retained her virginity after giving birth to Jesus.
@urbandekay (18278)
16 Dec 11
Indeed, that is how I understand it also all the best urban
1 person likes this
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
12 Dec 11
I think there are enough evidences to claim that Mary never had any other kids. first we know Joseph was a righteous man.We know God talk with him and warned him about the birth of Jesus.We never had such a wife and probably we are not as righteous as Joseph was so we can`t say what we will do in his place. We know for Jews and even Greek "brother or sister " didn`t mean all the time they are brothers.I gave you the example with Abraham calling Lot "brother" even if they were just relatives. Also the bible tells us that near the cross there were "His mother,his mother sister Mary..." .To imagine that a family will name 2 girls with the same name it`s very hard.We believe Mary of Cleopas was Mary sister in law.(i think Cleopas was Joseph brother.Jesus`s brothers can be Mary of Cleopas sons. We also know from the bible who took care of Mary and that one was John the apostle.We know that was Jesus`s command to John.So why would He tell John "Behold thy mother" and to his mother "Woman, behold thy son! " if he had other brothers ? Then there are the prophecies like this one from Ezekiel "And the LORD said to me, "This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered by it. Therefore it shall remain shut" So there are enough evidences to support this claim.
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
Again Calvin was of the Roman Church and gives no support to your claim "So Catholics and Orthodox are not the only ones who support this claim" Yes Iuliuxd, you can force some tortured interpretation on the text by taking the words out of context. Jesus is clearly using a metaphor to refer to John, as indeed he has done before when referring to his mother but there is just no indication that in the passages of Matthew and Mark where his siblings are referred to that a metaphorical use is intended. In order to justify interpreting it the way you do, you would need to show some indication that a metaphorical use was intended or appropriate and that you have not done But the strongest indicator with the plainest interpretation is that Jesus siblings are clearly referred to in the text. It is only because you believe in Mary's perpetual virginity, for which there is no scriptural basis, that you interpret the text in this aberrant manner all the best urban
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
12 Dec 11
Calvin. "Commentary on Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3". Harmony of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. 2. Retrieved 2009-01-07. "The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned." So Catholics and Orthodox are not the only ones who support this claim.
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
13 Dec 11
Can`t you see you are alone in this ? We know John took care of her,it was not "metaphorical " it was "take care of my mom " and "John will take care of you ". I just showed you the fathers of reform had the same opinion that "brothers " and "sisters " mean something more than what we understand today when someone tells us about brothers or sisters.The fact is you can`t prove He had brothers so i can believe whatever i want.Just because you have a poor understanding of the "Hebrew idiom" it doesn`t mean you are right.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
12 Dec 11
It has seemed to me that many Roman Catholics revere Mary and think of her as a virgin for life which they think of as a sort of holiness.. (Forgetting that God created all things?)
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
Aye all the best urban
@JER616 (545)
• Philippines
16 Dec 11
Hmmm.. that could be another discussion point, flowerchilde. Thank you for that idea. It is a strong point though inasmuch as they portray celibacy and chastity as virtues.
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
12 Dec 11
There are so many misunderstandings about what the Bible really teaches, ans most times the truth is very simple. God had the right to plant the life of Jesus into Mary´s womb. He had created the human beings with the ability to bring forth children, an He knew exactly how to do this miracle of taking his sons life from heaven and placing it in Mary so that he became a child without the inherited sin from Adam. Jesus was the son of God. After his birth, Joseph and Maria lived as a married couple and got other children. They were normal human beings, and Joseph accepted the miracle that God had done to Maria. He also obeyed God and took his family to Egypt to save the life of his foster son. Many big religions have made up their own teachings and even tried to prevent people from reading the Bible and finding out the truth. They persecuted those who translated the Bible to people´s language and some were even burned alive. But the Holy Scriptures survived and is now the biggest bestseller in the world! We just need to read it every day to find out its teachings. Have a great day!
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
13 Dec 11
Yes, and I don´t know about the Orthodox churc. They also worship Mary and other "saints" too. I once read about a letter that a cardinal wrote to a pope in the 16th century and warned him that he should not let people read the Bible, as it would reveal that the church often did not follow the Bible and even more often was teaching directly in contrary to what it says. For many years people have been kept in ignorance of what the Bible really says. In our days there are many volunteer workers that teach people who cannot read and also study the Bible with them, so now many are getting free from false religion!
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
As far as I am aware it is only the Roman Church that tried to prevent people reading the Word for themselves all the best urban
1 person likes this
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
16 Dec 11
Yes, and I don´t know about the Orthodox churc. They also worship Mary and other "saints" too. No one is "worshiping " Mary and the saints . We are venerating the Theotokos (or the birth giver of God ) and we are venerating the saints as men God has picked to work through them with the help of Holy Spirit.Indeed Mary and John the Baptist have a special place in Orthodoxy but no one is comparing them with God and worshiping is only for God. In our days there are many volunteer workers that teach people who cannot read and also study the Bible with them, so now many are getting free from false religion! So what is the difference between them learning the bible from a catholic teacher or a "volunteer" ?
1 person likes this
@gtargirl (5376)
• United States
11 Dec 11
Good question. Plus in Matthew it says that Joseph had no union with her until after she gave birth to Jesus. There was union.
@gtargirl (5376)
• United States
12 Dec 11
The bottom line that Joseph had nothing to do with the conception of Jesus is agreed upon and needs no further explanation. It's the argument that Jesus had siblings. But that argument will continue I'm sure.
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
Luther of course was of the Roman Church, ingrained with the idea of Mary's perpetual Virginity. What is more pertinent is that the early Church understood that Jesus had siblings all the best urban
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
13 Dec 11
Yeah i`m sure they weren`t as smart as you are.They were all manipulated by the catholic church .I mean come on if it writes brothers it mean they were brothers.
@mantis36 (4219)
• Philippines
12 Dec 11
I'll remember what @smilingjack said before, that the sharpshooter practice throwing darts on the dartboard and lots of bullseye shots that he made.... he go to the casino and while talking with friends, that sharpshooter only reports his number of bullseye shots and never talks about failed throws...
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
And what exactly is the relevance of that here? all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
I don't think Christians in general have a problem admitting that Jesus had siblings only the Orthodox and Roman Church all the best urban
@mantis36 (4219)
• Philippines
13 Dec 11
that whenever they say Jesus having a brother and sister to her mother Mary, Christians will only say "Blasphemy" and omit to put that information inside the bible so the people later will only read all good parts of the story and not that He is having a biological brother and a biological sister an edited text on the bible is what i think...
@carmelanirel (20942)
• United States
12 Dec 11
Wow Urban, as much as we disagree, I am glad to see that we agree on this and was totally shocked by some of the replies, from Mary and Joseph having s3x before marriage to Joseph being married before and had children..Goes to show what happens when MAN puts his hand in G♥d Word and makes up stories..This is why, though I read various versions, if I am confused I will discuss it with people who know the culture and the language, both Hebrew and Arabic, to make it clear what is being said..It's amazing how people, even some good Christians, are deceived in what the truth is... Oh, I guess I answered your question, it is because man translates G♥d word wrong and when I say "man" I mean mankind, though usually it is the male who translates and not the female..
• United States
14 Dec 11
what does the moon have to do with Y'shua's siblings????
@mantis36 (4219)
• Philippines
13 Dec 11
that even people who set footed on the moon's crust is still in doubt, but still believing confirm until now that 6 astronauts already set footed on moon, we can't believe what we always heard, set footed of a man in moon and the text inside the bible are all the same theories that once believed by public, it could change our lives to be a better living and in order to faced life positively.
1 person likes this
@bunnybon7 (50975)
• Holiday, Florida
11 Dec 11
because he only belonged to God. When Mary saw him on the cross. He said "There is your son woman!" and referred to James. if that makes any sense. its hard to explain. some people feel, Mary was only a vessel to deliver him in flesh on earth. so God could experience our feelings and trials.
@bunnybon7 (50975)
• Holiday, Florida
13 Dec 11
oh, ok sorry. its the same concept tho, right?
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
12 Dec 11
Actually He referred to John .
@lampar (7584)
• United States
13 Dec 11
May be both the establishments want to confuse Christians, come out with contrary statement related to the factual event in holy book. You can probably think of half a dozen reasons for doing so.
@anklesmash (1412)
12 Dec 11
From what i have read i believe Jesus did have siblings however they were only half brothers and sisters as Joseph was their father while the father of Jesus was god.I also think they were younger than Jesus as from what i have read Joseph and Mary weren't sexually active until after Jesus was born.I find it very unlikely that they would only have had one child in that era.I think the idea of Jesus having no siblings comes from belief of the immaculate conception meaning Mary stayed a virgin and her veneration by churches such as the catholic church.
@JER616 (545)
• Philippines
16 Dec 11
In fairness to the catholic church, the immaculate conception dogma is different from the virginal conception of Jesus in her womb. If you will read the Wikipedia on immaculate conception, such dogma refers to the state of Mary being born without inheriting original sin that the catholics maintain, since she merited being the mother of the Christ in human form. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception) However, I also strongly believe that the church maintains it stand on having Jesus as the only Son of Mary and Joseph so as to protect its teaching of Mary being virgin all throughout her life. The roman catholic apostolic church has blasphemous and unfounded doctrines that really contradict Biblical truths. Nonetheless, I do agree with you on the "sexually active" part of the sentence. Matthew 1:25 supports your assertion on this point.
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
I do agree with you here, but I'm not certain as to the "why" - much less if I should say what I think on here. I would think it has something to do with promoting the doctrines of the Virgin Birth & Immaculate Conception & suppressing all other thought on the matter. So it seems it was not in the best interests of Church doctrine & dogma to do so, but rather to provide a point of unique fascination surrounding the birth & early childhood of Jesus to attract more members & faster. I guess you know what I've found regarding the mistranslation of the Virgin Birth Prophecy from the Septuagint forward. See here: http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/2162488.aspx My goodness, Urban - these are very controversial discussions indeed! God Bless in your striving for the truth in the matter. I think it has opened up multiple cans of worms.
@urbandekay (18278)
13 Dec 11
The metaphor, opening a can of worms gives the idea of something horrible coming to light but worms, like these matters actually hold no terror once the truth about them is exposed. Rather it is the shutting away of such matters that allows them to fester in people's imagination becoming worse in the mind than they are in reality. Many of these novel inventions of the Roman and Orthodox Churches originated to prevent what they thought of as heresy, Arianism for instance and in a desperate and oppressed Church they may have served a practical purpose. But of course we must ask should the Church be concerned with such pragmatic matters? So, like you, I think we should strive to examine our beliefs all the best urban