Do you put God in a box?
@owlwings (43915)
Cambridge, England
December 31, 2011 7:15am CST
Here we are at the beginning of a New Year (by the calendar which most people use, at least).
I want to give you something to think about for this 'box' which we call 2012.
I would like you to tell me what comes to mind when you think of the concept of 'God' and just how it relates to you.
Now, you may not believe in 'God' or 'a god' or any of the ideas about what God is but you can't deny infinity ... or can you?
There's a whole world of difference between saying 'God is the Infinite' and 'God is infinite'. There's also a huge difference between saying 'God is infinite' and 'Infinity is God'.
Most of the Bible was written before anybody had any idea, mathematical or otherwise, about 'infinity'. If the word is used at all, it just means 'greater than we can imagine' ... and that, inevitably, means that what we CAN imagine is limited.
In other words, EVERYBODY'S concept of God is effectively 'in a box' ... even that of those who say that God doesn't exist.
What are your thoughts about this?
2 people like this
21 responses
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
2 Jan 12
I see it this way. G-d is too vast for All of us to see All Of Him so we put Him in a box. We experience Him in a filter way so we can survive the connection. The path to Him is called religion. And thankfully All of us can choose which path we use!
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
4 Jan 12
I very much agree that it's a 'survival mechanism'! Many people have reported the experience of 'seeing too much'. Some of those visionary writings are the most inspirational and enlightening things I know. It's clear that those who have 'opened the box' have found it a life-changing experience.
I am still debating whether the path to God is, or should be, called 'religion'. Unfortunately, the word 'religion' for me has so many negative and restrictive connotations (the very word comes from Latin roots associated with 'binding' and 'laws' or 'rules'). However, I do agree, to a point that there are many religions which describe different paths and that we have (or should have) the freedom to choose.
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@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
18 Feb 12
613 commandments? What are they and where can I find them? To be honest, commandments are for cattle. A true religion describes a goal (but may also include warnings about what many other people have found do not work in the path to that goal). I am still interested, however, in how people place their white posts to mark the 'correct' path!
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@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
4 Jan 12
I can understand. In my religion, in it's purest form, there are 613 commandments. Please don't let the word stop you from finding a path. Call it a path! To me All you need is A relationship with the super Being I call G-d, period. No rules necessary. And if you don't need a relationship with Him/Her/ Them, then that's ok too. The choice is yours. many countries Claim that it is Their choice for you but in reality it is Every individuals. Many are going to houses of Worship like many pay taxes, Just out of habit! Are they Truly a member of that faith, I don't think so!
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
1 Jan 12
Nonetheless, I suggest that you have a box of "Things I don't believe really exist". I certainly do (and so do most people). In it I would include fairies, werewolves, unicorns, the end of the world in 2012, Harry Potter, a person who flies round the world in one night delivering gifts to children, a gentleman with a long beard and white robes who lives somewhere above the clouds and sees and knows everything us mortals do and think ...
My point is, when you hear the word 'God', which 'box' do you immediately go to which stores what information you hold about the concept?
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
4 Jan 12
I agree with you about the 'tree' or 'network' concept. Thanks for introducing it here! I find that I think in that way myself some of the time. Perhaps even my question about 'God in a box' was, itself, 'boxed' (I was thinking/associating 'boxes' when it occurred to me but once I 'got' the idea, I encapsulated it, perhaps instinctively, as a way of making it a more manageable discussion?).
Different people have different ways of organising information (in general). The 'box' method is probably the one which most animals use; the 'network' model is much more sophisticated.
The very word 'God', in Anglo-Christian terminology, is an example of 'boxing'. As you say, the Germanic root (just as the Latin word 'deus') refers to a class of things and not to any specific one. We have actually limited the definition by capitalizing the word.
I have already had quite a few very interesting and thought-provoking responses: some of them challenge me considerably in knowing how to reply to them!
@_sketch_ (5742)
• United States
1 Jan 12
Oh I see. No. Those things you listed have one thing in common, but they have many different traits as well and so they are organized in my mind, not in a box, but in a web. That's how thoughts are stored. All things are connected- not separate.
Actually, the word "god" can mean many different things at once. It is used as a name in Christianity, but the word itself can be used to describe any deity. Buddha is considered a god, but in this sense, it is used to describe an enlightened human, not a supernatural being. It is arguable that the very basis for the Christian God, rooted to the sun. All the main astrological bodies were given different human-like personalities. God has also been used to describe nature. Pantheists would use the word in this way, though a panentheist would only consider nature one aspect of god, believing also in a higher being outside of the physical world.
So, no, when I hear the word, I do not go to one single concept, or box, in my mind, but a whole tree, branching out into many different ideas.
1 person likes this
@nannacroc (4049)
•
31 Dec 11
You're right and he's in the 'do not discuss with family' box beside politics and something else.
As our imagination is limited maybe if we didn't use the 'God box', our brains wouldn't cope and we'd be unable to live 'normal' lives. Maybe if we didn't have the box people would realise that whatever name you give to God he doesn't want the conflict which so many purport,not sure that's the right word, to be in His name.
Lovely to see you here even if your questions do make my brain wake up.
Have a great New Year.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
31 Dec 11
A crocodile's natural environment MAY be on the banks of the Great Grey-Green Greasy Limpopo but that doesn't mean they don't have all the time in the world to consider the Deeper Things of Life (and only the crocodile REALLY knows the secret of the Elephant's Child's 'Stronirarily Long Nose).
I wasn't thinking of the 'Do Not Discuss With ...' box at all but, now that you mention it, it's another kind of box that we store Him in ... and just as odd as the 'Bible' or 'Church' or 'Sunday Best' boxes which many people use.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
2 Jan 12
Hi owlwings, A few hundred years ago most people thought of God as an old man in the sky, who somehow always knew what everyone was doing. Many people who say that they don't believe in God today are thinking in the same way. The only educated young people who believe that way today are those who have been indoctrinated since birth, or have a fear of the unknown and are desperate for something to believe. It has to be difficult to believe in a God who is so angry with his creation that he demands that someone or something die to satisfy his anger. Blood must be shed, otherwise you are all going to hell. Sorry if I'm off the topic here, but I hope everyone had fun at their new years party, because God loves to laugh and hear us laugh. Blessings.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
4 Jan 12
The Devil may have all the best tunes but God has all the best jokes ... even if it may take us some time to 'get' them! 
Speaking of funny stories, I heard an excellent (and true) one the other day from a person who was a school inspector. He had gone to a Catholic primary school and was observing an art lesson in a class of six year olds.
One little girl's picture caught his attention. It was of a large, fatherly figure with kind eyes and white robes, seated in the clouds. He asked the girl who her picture was of and she replied: "It's God, of course!"
"But", the inspector said, "nobody knows what God looks like!"
"Well, they will when they see my picture!", came the answer, quick as a flash.
Then he noticed that, at the bottom of the picture, was a small figure kneeling in prayer and a marvellously colourful golden lake studded with bright splashes of colour looking like shining jewels.
"So tell me what your picture is about, what story does it tell?", he prompted.
"Oh well," said the little girl, "It's about how God always listens to prayers and the person praying is praying for the sick."
She pointed to the yellow lake ... "That's the sick, see!"
Speaking of funny stories, I heard an excellent (and true) one the other day from a person who was a school inspector. He had gone to a Catholic primary school and was observing an art lesson in a class of six year olds.
One little girl's picture caught his attention. It was of a large, fatherly figure with kind eyes and white robes, seated in the clouds. He asked the girl who her picture was of and she replied: "It's God, of course!"
"But", the inspector said, "nobody knows what God looks like!"
"Well, they will when they see my picture!", came the answer, quick as a flash.
Then he noticed that, at the bottom of the picture, was a small figure kneeling in prayer and a marvellously colourful golden lake studded with bright splashes of colour looking like shining jewels.
"So tell me what your picture is about, what story does it tell?", he prompted.
"Oh well," said the little girl, "It's about how God always listens to prayers and the person praying is praying for the sick."
She pointed to the yellow lake ... "That's the sick, see!"1 person likes this
@allknowing (130070)
• India
31 Dec 11
I was thinking of spending the last few hours of 2011 in a cheerful mood and to say that your topic has not created that feeling in me is an under statement. Blasphemous as it may sound is it not true that God and having fun does not go hand in hand?
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
31 Dec 11
I think that all of us receive God 'in a box', so to speak. I mean that we learn about Him in very limited ways at first or come across Him in those boxes that we call 'Bibles' or 'Churches'. Once unwrapped, it's sometimes quite difficult to get Him back into the box again!
I don't think that 'God' and 'having fun' don't go hand in hand at all ... completely the reverse, in fact. If you solve the conundrum before the New Year (or any time soon), please let me know. I often feel that I'm closer to it when 'having fun' than when I'm trying to be serious (in fact it was very likely a game of "Deal or No Deal" or something similar which started me off on the topic, I'm pretty sure! Oh, that and contemplating the phenomenon of Prime Numbers ...)
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
31 Dec 11
You notice, perhaps, that, consciously or unconsciously, I have answered you in a similar manner with several double negatives which try the brain when you come to read them back!
@allknowing (130070)
• India
1 Jan 12
As kids we were brought up in prayer. Morning, afternoon, night, prayers, prayers, prayers. Prayers in school, prayers in church and prayers at home. Now tell me Owlwings when God has been associated only with prayers where we hardly found any fun 
would you blame me now if I said God and fun don't go together?
As a liberated adult now, I only associate God with someone who takes care of me for which I am forever in the attitude of gratitude. I do not say those prayers that have been written in books and which we were reciting as parrots when we were kids. Now I converse with Him the way I would with someone who cares for me.
Have a look at my box then and tell me what you feel about it! 
would you blame me now if I said God and fun don't go together?
As a liberated adult now, I only associate God with someone who takes care of me for which I am forever in the attitude of gratitude. I do not say those prayers that have been written in books and which we were reciting as parrots when we were kids. Now I converse with Him the way I would with someone who cares for me.
Have a look at my box then and tell me what you feel about it! 
@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
4 Jan 12
I guess in a void even a little particle would wonder around till it got back to where it started and then you would say, hello there little particle, I’ve seen you before. And if I would imagine what something could be like, I could spin a specific yarn and make it and then say, I’ll see you again. And if I went to spend time with God, I would only say, remember me, it was only just for a short time.
Maybe we will search in a box........................or maybe imagine one
well................................................................................................we
could..............................................................................................build
in....................................................................................................one
maybe......................................love................................................we
could...............................................................................................live
in.....................................................................................................one
and..................................................................................................share
that...................................................................................................with
God..................................................................................................everlasting
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
4 Jan 12
I like your image very much, Bluedoll! A thousand words in just thirty (arranged just so)! What more can I say?
You have introduced a completely different idea and reason for 'boxing' than I had in mind ... and it's a beautiful one! 
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
18 Feb 12
In a discussion like this it is really impossible to give a 'best response'. I can't find one, so far, however, which leaves me with so little to say in reply. It has to be the 'end of the discussion', even though many more may respond and I may have a lot to say to them still!
@peavey (16936)
• United States
31 Dec 11
This is kind of tough. At first I thought yes, we do all put God in a box and limit Him in our experience, but I read through the other replies and found a little different take from some people. Regardless, I think even those people put Him "in a box," i.e., have some notion of what He is, even if they think He is none of the things they think He is. Nebulous is a box, too.
I think we tend to put God in a box (those of us who know Him) because it's easier to relate to Him and to connect with Him if He has certain qualities or limitations. Of course, when we stop and think, we know He has no limitations, but we still tend to approach Him as if He does.
1 person likes this
@jimbomuso (950)
•
18 Feb 12
I only really have what you'd call a visual understanding of how it works, the skin contains all the information that did or ever will exist, well at least until the all energy in our dimension is completely consumed over time- the great crunch.
I read this read this really cool Greg Ilses book that put this theory forward that once god created the universe he became apart from it, that is unable to make dramatic change to it. But if He/She/It used the power that they had left it, God could then punch a hole into our reality and effect change ie stepping away from our mammalian instincts to dominate/be violent/ and cultivate a better mind through the teachings of his chosen ie Jesus, Mohammed, or the people who could "hear" He/She/it!
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
18 Feb 12
Greg Iles is an interesting and thought provoking novelist. Which book are you referring to: http://www.gregiles.com/books.htm ?
@jimbomuso (950)
•
18 Feb 12
FootPrints of God/Dark Matter! really entertaining and thought provoking. It got me thinking about God in a different way.
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
11 Jun 12
It helps if you actually read the discussion, not just the heading!
@vandana7 (98682)
• India
1 Jan 12
Happy New Year owlwings. :)
You truly justify your name. :)
Very wise discussion. :)
Well honestly, I atribute all capabilities to my god. Therefore, I believe that if the shark is coming at me with that open jaw and those rows of teeth that would make me faint, he would fly from the sky and hit at the nose of that carnivore may be. After all, I havent sinned that much as yet to suffer being eaten like a dog's bone. 
But seriously - I can only think as much as my mind allows me to think. I mean there is a big universe out there, and so many planets, and inifinite compositions. I cant think of god looking at all that. I only see him in relation to me i.e., what I can see, and perceive and do something or cant do but would wish to do. So - you are right, I do put him in a box with limited capabilities because of my inabilities or selfishness to think beyond me.
Nice discussion owlwing. Made me think. :)
But seriously - I can only think as much as my mind allows me to think. I mean there is a big universe out there, and so many planets, and inifinite compositions. I cant think of god looking at all that. I only see him in relation to me i.e., what I can see, and perceive and do something or cant do but would wish to do. So - you are right, I do put him in a box with limited capabilities because of my inabilities or selfishness to think beyond me.
Nice discussion owlwing. Made me think. :)@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
1 Jan 12
That is the point, really. When we are faced with something which is beyond our comprehension, we HAVE to make an image of it which fits what we know or believe about it. It's neither a complete image nor a true image and it's limited by our ability to comprehend it. Some of us (too many) are quite happy with that image and, after a while, reject anything which says that it's not like the way we imagine it at all.
As long as we recognise that we ALL cram things into boxes which limit our knowledge about them, then there is some hope that we might, occasionally, take the idea out and see if there isn't another box it might fit in better.
@Rick1950 (1575)
• Lima, Peru
3 Jan 12
Well, I think you're right when you say that what we can imagine is limited. I know about God through the Bible and like as the most people through the tradition. That's what we have heard from our parents and the society. Thomas Aquinas asked himself, before he became a monk, "What is God?". And St. Anselm of Canterbury said in his very known sentence that "God is something greater than which nothing can be thought". Then this argument was refused by other philosophers.
I think God is the fullness. When St. Augustine could find God he was immensely blessed. I believe that if you are able to meet God you won't need anything more.
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@BLTLife (337)
• United States
31 Dec 11
I agree with you on the infinity points. But I don't agree with you that everybody puts God into some form of box.
I can personally say that the God I see is something I can't comprehend. And if I can't even grasp the idea of God fully, how can I place the idea in one singular spot. When people say God is this way or he doesn't exist, that is what puts God in a box. To define him. If left undefined it cannot be placed.
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
31 Dec 11
Well, possibly not everyone does ... or at least, not consciously (which is why I wrote what I did).
Isn't just the fact of giving Him a name ... or even of specifying a gender ... a way we have of making the concept more manageable?
@BLTLife (337)
• United States
31 Dec 11
Giving him a face or gender is a way of managing the concept and a way to convey what I mean to others. But I don't define what he is. He may be a she. She may be some other thing. It may not be one god but many.
This way of thinking allows God to not be confined by my brain. Because I know that there are an infinite amount of possibilities that we can't even comprehend.
It's like I said though. Once you define God, you also put him in a "box".
@Devilova (5392)
• Indonesia
1 Jan 12
Whats the definition of God from your sight?
Could you explained to me?
@samar54 (2454)
• Egypt
18 Feb 12
First we have to recognize that God did not create this universe in vain .. God has in the universe a verses of a miracle .. In the creation of man and nature, planets, etc.
We can't imagen God , we can not be that no matter how we tried to imagine that he is not this .. Glory be to Him the One
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
18 Feb 12
It is only our assumption (or some kind of logic) that says that this Universe and therefore our existence is not 'in vain' or 'random'. We are right, I think, to be amazed and awed when we discover 'laws' and what we see as a 'pattern' behind it all but it is worth remembering that something in the brains of humans (at least) is pre-programmed to try to make patterns out of random data. Just the fact that we have 'seen' pictures in the stars in the night sky, have long tried to assign meaning to random marks on the backs of turtle shells and leaves in a teacup and that psychologists sometimes use 'Rorschach blots' to interpret the workings of an individual's mind is evidence of that.
@PoppaDave (438)
• United States
4 Jun 12
God is defenitely not in a box, we are the ant farm.
God is too COMPLEX for anyone to market like manopoly with hotels and property cards
God is too smart to be figured out, He is outside the box!
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
11 Jun 12
I agree with that, of course. What I am saying is not that he is outside the box, but that most people cannot avoid creating a box for God, religion and things like that.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
11 Feb 12
I think you need first to say quite what you mean by infinite.
all the best urban
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
18 Feb 12
I thought that I just did ... or, at least, sketched out an idea. What would be your description of 'infinite'?
(The word 'describe' itself effectively means 'drawing a box around'.)
@jimbomuso (950)
•
18 Feb 12
like this post
Everyone's concept is in a box from the outset they discover religion isn't it? most people discover in childhood and the length breadth and depth of the 'box' begins to be made and refined in later life embracing it or rejecting it but still it's there.I've always had a slight difficulty with God as faiths/entitys/concepts/constructs but I try to simple common sense thats like stuff like "do no harm..Try to help people help themselves etc. .you can't deny the infinte... maybe. I'm not sure what we can imagine is limited but we're limited by what what we know and dont know! There is an esoteric theory in high-end pyhsics that all the information contained within our universe/dimension is contained on a holographic 'skin' on our dimension/reality!
I think our greatest strength and weakness as a species is that by our very nature we try to be godlike with our imagination.
Everyone's concept is in a box from the outset they discover religion isn't it? most people discover in childhood and the length breadth and depth of the 'box' begins to be made and refined in later life embracing it or rejecting it but still it's there.I've always had a slight difficulty with God as faiths/entitys/concepts/constructs but I try to simple common sense thats like stuff like "do no harm..Try to help people help themselves etc. .you can't deny the infinte... maybe. I'm not sure what we can imagine is limited but we're limited by what what we know and dont know! There is an esoteric theory in high-end pyhsics that all the information contained within our universe/dimension is contained on a holographic 'skin' on our dimension/reality!
I think our greatest strength and weakness as a species is that by our very nature we try to be godlike with our imagination. 
@celticeagle (158485)
• Boise, Idaho
31 Dec 11
I am an agnostic. I do not believe in the teachings of the Bible. I am a spiritual person and do believe there is a highter spiritual power. I believe in Karma and fate. That is my 'box'.
@savypat (20216)
• United States
31 Dec 11
I do use the word god when speaking to people who believe in a personal god. But I have no defination of god for my belief. I believe in natural laws, like for every action there will be a reaction. I do believe in energy but this also is ruled by natural laws. That there is positive energy and negative energy and that we have the power to attract both of these. I think we can do this with our thoughts and actions. But what ever we do there is always a balance. Beyond this I really have no belief.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
1 Jan 12
There is truth in what you say. We limit ourselves with our narrow view and narrow thinking. There is so much more to be discovered for those willing to venture beyond their comfort zones into the realm of undiscovered country. There is more that we don't know than do. Of course, those who narrow their thinking to a single holy book see nothing beyond that. Since God is much more than one can find in any book, they will be forever boxed, limiting themselves,until the day they hunger to know more. Understanding God is going to take time.
@changjiangzhibin89 (16520)
• China
1 Jan 12
Happy New year!By your leave,I don't believe in God,because I am an atheist.Since I haven't perused the Bible that My mother who is a convinced Christian has a copy of,therefore I cann't actually distinguish between "God is the Infinite"and"God is infinite".They say that the former is equal to saying "God is everything."
