Muslim Jesus Vs Christian Jesus
By redhotpogo
@redhotpogo (4401)
United States
May 29, 2012 10:41am CST
Who would win in a fight? Just kidding. No my real question has to do with end of Jesus's life on Earth. I was trying to learn a little bit about Islam and I came upon this information: "According to the popular opinion and Muslim traditions, Jesus was not crucified but instead, he was raised up by God unto the heavens. This "raising" is understood to mean through bodily ascension." (mind you this is from Wikipedia and it is not a very reliable source) Muslims correct me if that is wrong.
In Christianity it is taught that Jesus was crucified by the Romans by the request of the Jews. But (if Wikipedia is correct) Muslims say he wasn't crucified on the cross. He just rose up to heaven.
But from these historical records we see the following:
Cornelius Tacitus: Annals XV,44: "But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also."
Josephus ben Mattathias: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day." Antiquities, XVIII, 33
The Talmud: "On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for 40 days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover."
So with historical records saying that Jesus was indeed crucified, how could Muslims say that he wasn't?
And then there is this from the Quran:
He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
"(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
So if Jesus is a Prophet and he said that he would die, then why would you say that he didn't?
Just a question. I don't mean to start any heated arguments. I'm just trying to learn. Please everyone respect each other.
2 people like this
12 responses
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
30 May 12
It`s normal for different religions to have different stories about Jesus.It`s not like you talk about Adam or Abraham or Moses or whatever, the Christians think he was God in the flesh (well ...most of them, there are some with a different opinion 
)
So another religion can`t accept that because from that moment they become useless.But the story of Jesus was too good not to be used so they took the story but changed the role of Jesus to that of a simple prophet.
)
So another religion can`t accept that because from that moment they become useless.But the story of Jesus was too good not to be used so they took the story but changed the role of Jesus to that of a simple prophet.
@Devilova (5392)
• Indonesia
30 May 12
As far as I know is that Isa, is a prophet.
He betrained by His own student, but when the time He want to be crossed.
Allah raise Him completely (body) to the heaven and replace it with His student that betrained Him.
It will be one of the sign for the end of the day when He turned down to the earth and explained everything.
Thats what I know but only God who know the truth.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
Ohhhh. Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you Devilova.
So Jesus' student betrayed him, and it was his student that was on the cross and not Jesus.
I assume you mean Judas.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
But why would he not let Jesus be harmed when there were many other prophets who were murdered. Why would Jesus be spared?
@jazel_juan (15747)
• Philippines
30 May 12
Well this is a heavy topic, personally i do believe in Jesus Christ..and as for the Muslim's belief, as far as i know they really do not believe in Christ as God, they only believe in him as phophet - thus in their bible he is Mohammad.
As for the ascending, resurrecting part - a friend of mine who is in Islam said that they did not believe that he was crucified but in their context / belief Mohammad was ascended while in the Christian part he was crucified and there are several texts in the bible that says so.
I have seen an interesting series in NatGeo - Ancient Xfiles and it talked about the HOly Shoal of Christ, that cloth that was covered on him while was in the tomb after the crucifixion. The Holy Shoal said to have his image imprinted in it. Some experts / scientists try to find the logic as to why his image was imprinted and they have tried different methods, some said it might be fake and can easily be printed and the experts tried copying it but with fail as there are parts that are hard to copy. There was one who pointed out that the markings are like burns in cloth..and the experts said that if it is through burning how did it happen..and they tried experiments, in small scale and large scale... it is quite long if i would be so descriptive but at the last part they were able to conclude that it is through some massive electric method that the image of Christ appeared on the shoal and it is possible that that electricity came from THE BODY of Christ Himself and not through other things.. thus forming the image and thus the REsurrecion... and well in some ways science was able to prove that Christ ressurecting is true...and yes i do believe in this.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
Yeah I saw the thing about the burial cloth. I think the Catholics got control of it. But some people said that it was faked by an artist, though others say there is no way because the print is in 3D and not a flat image, so for an artist to fake it they would have to be extremely intelligent, and then some people tried to copy it, but they couldn't. Some say it was the burial cloth of someone, but not Jesus. I don't know. There are thorn marks on it, so if it's not Jesus' burial cloth then someone else was killed in the same way that Jesus was. Science is possible. I don't disagree with science. I think God created science.
@jazel_juan (15747)
• Philippines
30 May 12
I do agree with you as God i believe created everything.
Glad you also saw the burial cloth episode, so do you believe in it then? that somehow it is Christ's and that he was resurrected?
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
About the cloth? I'm not sure. I have no idea who was buried in it. It's very possible that it was Jesus, but wouldn't I look stupid if I said "Yeah this is the real deal." And then Jesus came back and said "I wasn't buried in that."
@adhyz82 (36249)
• Indonesia
30 May 12
iam moslem..
i dont know the motivation make this discussion like this
just want to know about moslem faith about Jesus or what??i think rehotpogo more knows..
for us, Jesus (or in our term religion, called Prophet Isa) is only a prophet like another prophet from Adam until Mohammad..they are same..they are human too, but they had another special, because they are prophet..
i think if we may ask about religion, iam not sure that many mylot member had capacity for explaining about it..
it is little confused if we are talking more seriously about religion..
if you ask about Jesus was crucified, yes until the part it is still same with our faith..but in the end, it is really different..
We believe that God had change Jesus (or Prophet Isa) with a people who had similar face with Jesus (Prophet Isa) and the similar face with Jesus (prophet Isa) is crucified..and not Jesus (Prophet Isa)..God had another plan for him..But maybe some of us who had limited information about it can`t believe if it happens..but it happens in our believe...
@Gordano (795)
• United States
1 Jun 12
So you're saying he was crucified, but didn't die.
some people may try the argument that Jesus was crucified but didn't die in the crucifixion, I want to make it clear that this against the Holy Qura'n which clearly says that Jesus (himself) was not crucified.
[004:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
Yes. It is very sensitive, but don't worry I'm not going to attack you on anything. I just want to learn. I have a lot of questions about Islam and I'm just hoping that Muslims can answer them for me. And for the people who aren't Muslim please don't attack them on what they say, because I am the one who brought up the subject. I am the one who wants to hear what they have to say.
@adhyz82 (36249)
• Indonesia
30 May 12
yes, Jesus did not die in crucification..it was not him...It was the people who had smilar face with him..
jesus (Prophet Isa) come in the end of this world..It is our religion version..he comes and ensure that he is human being and not the God like some religion believes..
It must involve another faith red..
you know, that talking religion is too sensitive..thats why iam afraid for discussion this interest
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
30 May 12
When I come to a problem of who to believe, (I raised five kids, it happened a lot) I then look at character, actions-the fruit so to speak, of each of the opposing sides. It seems to me you've done this already.
Being a Christian, it is hard to be objective when dealing with those who teach an opposing doctrine and even within the Christian faith, there are opposing doctrines of who Jesus is and what He did, and why He did it. Being a Muslim it is the same. There are different teachings within the Islamic faith, just as there are in Judaism and Christianity.
How do you have a conversation with a person about this when they believe thier Holy Book is more truthful than yours? Both sides come to the table with already firm beliefs. This being the case, you will never get full understanding from them or convey your beliefs adequetly to them, it is a matter of what is written in each book, to each person. And both sides believe only what their book says.
I've studied other religions with the firm belief that God would teach me, show me what HIS word for me was. Look at the fruit (what does it bring forth in people), read with an open heart, wishing to find the truth, and rely on God to teach you. He wants mankind to know Him. He created us for His Glory. And with those two things in mind, you will find Him.
Then you may also use reason; What sort of God do we have if we must live in only in fear? What sort of God, great enough to create the universe, would only love with no judgnment, or judge with no mercy? If any thing, He must be reasonable.
Truth must make sense.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
Open heart and open mind. I didn't start this discussion as debate. I just have questions about Islam is all. I know that Christians will say their book is right, and Muslims will say their book is right. I'm just interested in what Muslims have to say. I'm not really interested in what Christians have to say, because I'm already a Christian myself. And it wouldn't do me any good to ask a Christian about Muslim beliefs.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
I believe that too Devilova. But I also believe that God has the power to appear as whatever he wants to.
I don't know what God is like so I can only go from imagination and what I've read. My idea of God is a being that is beyond anything physical. Beyond time. The rules of science and nature do not apply to him because he created everything. Anything is possible for God.
We have our fanatics too. They forget the message of Jesus who preached that the greatest commandment was to love.
@Devilova (5392)
• Indonesia
30 May 12
I'm a muslim and I do believe that God is more then just a men or mankind.
What definition of God for both of you?
Thats the main different between Islam and others.
Islam has its own problems to be deal with since there are some fanatics carry on a wrong concept.
@samar54 (2454)
• Egypt
29 May 12
If you want find out who is the Messiah son of Mary,peace be upon him ,how his mother - God
bless her -became pregnant, how generated .. What are the first of his miracles, and not his crucifixion, and raise to the Heaven read the Quran , Surah Al-Imran , Surah Maryam ,
and these verses :
Al-Nessaa 157 , 171
Al-Maaida 1-9, 112 , 114 , 136 , 157
As-saff 6
you can read here on this site :
http://www.e-quran.com/
if you want to listen to Surah Maryam which Quran was revealed:
http://youtu.be/NAOipjkBK4M
About this verse :
"Peace be upon me on the day I was born, and on the day I die; and on the day when I shall be raised up alive." 'Maryam-33
when Juses come down
@Gordano (795)
• United States
30 May 12
Are the record keepers wrong? How would we know if they are wrong?
Very good question, the answer to this question exist in the end of the gospel of Barnabas from Chapter 214 to the end of that gospel, the link is provided in my response below, the answer is also exist in the Holy Qura'n 4:157
[004:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
and because it was made to appear to them, that they killed the Messiah, but they killed him not, therefor historical records saying that Jesus was indeed crucified are not wrong, but are not true at the same time!!!
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
These are good questions. I've been wanting to ask Muslims this too. I thought it was Mohammed that was the messenger of Islam. The one that wrote down what the angel told him. But if Jesus was the messenger than what was the point of Mohammed?
@mr_pearl (5018)
• India
15 Jun 12
Hi... This has been an impressive, knowledgable discussion. I got lost among so many posts by everyone. I've read a book which compares both of the religions. I'm a Hindu and I read the book just out of curiosity. That book didn't give any concrete results as it was way too biased....
I've formed my own conclusions too...
I think, both of the religions talk about one Man only... Probably, both of these communities were one in the past. Due to circumstances, I surmise, they got seperated and wrote their own versions about the Great Man.. It sounds unlikely, but it is probable...
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
16 Jun 12
Yes. I think so too. And that is the Christian version of events. They were all Jews at first, and then they split up. Some people stayed Jews, some followed Jesus as the Christ, some as the Christ who is also the Son of God, some as just a prophet, and some became fake jews.
@Gordano (795)
• United States
30 May 12
It seems you have an idea about the Muslim belief about Jesus, very interesting that his Name is not Jesus since Hebrew alphabet doesn't have ( J ) in it, if you read the Book of Acts you will find that Both Paul and Barnabas were mentioned many times together and remember it was Barnabas who introduced Paul to the other disciples of Isa (Jesus) and it is a bit strange that we have half of the new testament written by Paul (a Jew and pharisee who never met Jesus) but nothing written by Barnabas in the new testament of the Bible!!!
you can read the story in the end of Gospel of Barnabas from Chapter 214 it talks about the crucifixion and you will find out why did people of that time including the Virgin Mary herself thought that it was Jesus on the cross.
to get the right idea about Jesus Christ you need to get answers for some questions about Jesus and remembers the different views are not only about the crucifixion or not, it is not that simple, you need to get answers about:
His nature (a man, a god, son of god, son of man)
His mission (came to the lost sheep of Israel, or came to die for the sin of humanity)
His teachings (to adhere to the Law of Moses like what he said, or the Law is a curse like what Paul said!)
get the right answers to this (one plain answer without conflicts) and remember that it is not so simple, and it is not only about the crucifixion, crucifixion is but the end of the story, so what exactly is the story? that is what matters.
Barnabas in the Bible:
http://www.barnabas.net/barnabas-in-the-bible.html
The Gospel of Barnabas:
http://www.barnabas.net/chapters.html
@Gordano (795)
• United States
30 May 12
expected comments from some Christians:
they will say that the gospel of Barnabas is known to be fraud!!
they will say that Muslims confuse their fictitious Isa with Yeshu!!
they will say anything and every thing but they will never give one answer about the nature, the mission, and the teachings of Jesus, and they will never give any answer to Why there is nothing in the Bible written by any of the disciples of Jesus? and they will never tell you Why a Jew and a pharisee who never met Jesus wrote more than half of the new testament of the Bible, but the disciples of Jesus wrote nothing in the Bible?!
they will say that the gospel of Barnabas is known to be fraud!!
they will say that Muslims confuse their fictitious Isa with Yeshu!!
they will say anything and every thing but they will never give one answer about the nature, the mission, and the teachings of Jesus, and they will never give any answer to Why there is nothing in the Bible written by any of the disciples of Jesus? and they will never tell you Why a Jew and a pharisee who never met Jesus wrote more than half of the new testament of the Bible, but the disciples of Jesus wrote nothing in the Bible?!
@Bhurishrava (672)
• India
2 Jun 12
The musliom account of Jesus is not true because it was writen several hundreds yrs later.
@LetranKnight25 (33121)
• Philippines
30 May 12
Hello there Pogo, there's no doubt that Jesus Christ as being the Son of God and ressurected after three days is legitimate. I don't know about the perception of others about him but that doesn't concern me because it's not what I believed in. Some people said that Mohammed copied a lot of stuff in the Bible and put it in the Quran. but that's what they think, these people are mostly proPhets but not Jesus Christ who is indeed not just a Prophet but a god in human form.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
30 May 12
I've heard a lot of things about Muslims too. Some people say that an angel appeared to Mohammed and told him these things, but other people say Mohammed thought it was really a demon and didn't want to write the things down, but his wife forced him to. It's just things I've heard. I want to clear things up. It's the same for Christians. I see a lot of people saying things about Christianity that aren't true. Even people that claim they study the bible and know so much about it, but their information is so far off you wonder what bible they were reading. I think if I want people to listen to what I have to say then I have to listen to what they have to say also. And it's better to hear it from the people who follow that belief themselves, then an outsider who couldn't possibly know all the things that they know.
@samar54 (2454)
• Egypt
15 Jun 12
Gabriel is the secretary of Revelation, God sends him to those people Who had chosen to tell his messages to people , Gabriel said the Psalms to David, the Torah to Moses , the
New Testament to Jesus , and the Quran to Mohammed .
, either who said that Satan is inspired from the Quran to Muhammad .. They are liars , Why? Do Satan curse himself ? Do Satan seek refuge with Allah from himself?
@momof3kids (1894)
• Singapore
5 Jun 12
I am a muslim and so far I am agreeing with the muslims that have responded. I wrote this just to keep your discussion in my mylot record. I hope you will find what you are looking for.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
5 Jun 12
Yeah. The question was basically answered for me already, I'm just wanting to know more details. Like why would Jesus allow someone else to be crucified in his place. Doesn't sound like a very good person. I couldn't allow someone to die for me while I snuck off somewhere. And why would Jesus be spared if all the other prophets weren't. If he's just a prophet then what is so special about him? Someone said he brought the message of Islam, but actually that would be Muhammad. Because if it had been Jesus then Muhammad has no purpose at all.
By the way I don't mean to ..what's the word? ... upset anyone by what I'm saying. It's just a little confusing for me. So please have patience with me.
@riempie9 (1021)
• South Africa
29 Jun 12
Forgot to add this in earlier comments. The name Issa is the Arabic name for Jesus in Islam. Muslims are to follow the teachings of Jesus. The big thing between the Muslims and the Christians is that Christians believe in the Trinity, and Muslims believe only in the Oneness of God and that God is not made of flesh.
