Americans, help me understand!

Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
June 5, 2012 3:35am CST
I would like to know, how has Mitt Romney gotten so far in the presidential race? A guy who believes in magic underwear, might become your president. How did it come to this, i can not understand.
1 person likes this
7 responses
@Fatcat44 (1142)
• United States
6 Jun 12
What your problem? Harry Reid is Mormon too. You got a problem with that? There are about 20 other Mormon Senators and Representatves. This is bigotry! What you have posted is not very nice!
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
6 Jun 12
a bigot telling Americans they are not tolerant? Can you believe it? unfortunately yes.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
6 Jun 12
Here's my take on some history; WWII was fought over European ideas and European goals. WWII reduced the population of the world by a THIRD and was WON by American effort to keep Nazis and communists from ruling over mankind. Europeans colonized Asia, Africa, South and North America for WEALTH and POWER. And those who got a taste of real freedom, fought Europeans in our Revolution to keep what they had found. Seems to me Europeans should not lecture America, when they are the ones who went into the world seeking power and wealth in the first place. Has America lost that taste for freedom? Some have, yes it is so. But only because European ideas of serfdom, feudalism and oligarchy have infected our culture and institutions.
• Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
6 Jun 12
Reading debras posts, its really hard to see the tolerance there, putting words into others mouths and provocating conflicts. Also the hypocrisy shines so bright, it makes my eyes hurt. Unfortunately i do not know who Harry Reid is. All the mormons i do know, and have met, have not left the prettiest picture of the whole institution. Also your quick self-made judgment jump, from a simple question and a quest for knowledge, to bigotry, leaves a certain impression. Maybe you would be kind enough to give me a short description of Harry Reid, so i could compare it with available facts and the opinion of others and find the truth, hidden between the lines. Thats how i usually get my information.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
5 Jun 12
I don't believe they are thought of as 'magic' underware. They are worn as a symbol of modesty. YOu do understand symbolism, right? It amazes me that under the guise of tolerance and acceptance, People will judge another without actually understanding what it is they are judging. EVERYONE of the American presidents has been a person who (at least claimed to) believed in God. Not a one of them has tried to impose their beliefs on the American people, EXCEPT ONE- Obama. His belief is (from Rev. Wright's sermons) that America is damned and that America invented AIDS to kill black people. And HE IS DOING what you fear the Chrisitian right may do, imposing his beliefs (taken from Rev. Wright's sermons) that America is NOT exceptional, that America is to be apologized for, and that we have no right to feel our Constitution is any better than say, Kenya's? or Egypt's? It is also juvenille to make fun of someone's beliefs. I am a Christian, I read some of these responses and see the subtle and not so subtle digs at people of faith. BUT I am the one who is suppose to be 'intolerant' and 'hateful' because of MY FAITH? It's fine with me if you do not believe as I do. I can approach a conversation with you as an adult and at least try to understand where you are coming from. I may not agree, but I do not think automatically, because you do not agree with me, that you are ignorant. Until...you make fun of (isn't that bullying?) a person's religion. It is the same as making fun of their appearance or their race or their country of origin.
• Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
6 Jun 12
First of all, did you even read my text or are you, as one might say in america, pulling stuff out of your a**. From you accusing me of being a bully (for no reason what so ever), from me replying to you using your own terms, to you accusing me again in bulling (again fro no obvious reason) - is that the method of "putting words into someone else mouth" You seem to be doing that alot in the last response. Come to think of it, i could not even imagine, how one could use such terms as: put in training camps; line them all up and shoot them etc, well done. My psychologist friend would probably translate this as deeply hidden personal wishes. I'll ask her tomorrow;) Secondly, if you would know anything about the rest of the world, you would understand that most of the world is by now way ahead of US in freedom of speech and thought. Living in a bubble is not healthy for the mind. Your constitution has freedoms written in it, but seems everything possible is done, to prevent that from happening (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-north-carolina-may-ban-global-warming-study-20120605,0,717826.story - just stumbled on an awesome example of what is going on) PS: seems odd to hear about freedom of thought from a religious person. Doesnt your god "hear" and judge everything you think about. And in case of any abnormalities, hell will be an option. Wheres the freedom there?
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
6 Jun 12
It is bullying to make fun of people. And what goes on between my God and I, you need not concern yourself with. And you need not use filthy language to express yourself, I'll personally send you a thesaurus so you can sound half way educated.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
8 Jun 12
“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.” ? Isaac Asimov “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.” ? Socrates I do not count myself among those who think the Pope infallible. And once the Christian religion became a means of spreading and holding worldly power, it lost its power to regenerate the evil within humanity's heart. It is not the teachings of Jesus that are at fault, it is the use of them by men who have not allowed these teachings to touch their heart. You are free to believe what you want, but a man of character does NOT condemn or ridicule another's belief and then turn around and demand that they not condemn or ridicule HIM.
@matersfish (6311)
• United States
5 Jun 12
As far as I'm aware, every Presidential candidate out there to choose from is religious. And on a personal level, since my family and friends are also religious, I won't tear into someone's religion unless they want to make claims like it's already proven, or that their system is inherently moral, or that America is under a specific god, etc. If a religious person just keeps their beliefs personal, I have no beef with them whatsoever. So unless Romney is trying to explicitly convince me and others that Jesus was an American and that I can wear magic underwear to protect me, I'm okay with him believing that. Having that belief does not necessarily mean it will shape your policy. Many religious people are able to separate these things and not have them control their lives. It wasn't always like that, but once secularism was afforded a place in government systems instead of every leader leading from a divine seat, things started to change slightly. For me, the belief in magic underwear isn't any more outlandish than a belief that people lived to be 900 years old, the earth is only 6,000 years old, a virgin gave birth to god, scientific evidence is a result of Satan's tricks, ironically vain commandments were magically etched in stone, etc, etc etc... What I'm waiting for is people who do not subscribe to fantastical beliefs bereft of any supporting evidence to actually come together and seek positions in government. It's a sad and outright terrifying sight to watch a grown, supposedly educated man in Congress give a statement that we don't need to worry about climate change because a book told him his god will never flood the earth again. This is a man collecting taxpayers' money to live; this a man responsible for influencing American law. And he's far from the only person to believe that. So I can't beat up on Mitt unless I'm gonna beat up on everyone. As long as Mitt's not trying to convert people, and as long as he's not out there saying his god is telling him to do things, I'm okay that he holds this belief. The guy in the White House now believes in zombies and 6-day creation of everything and that a god sacrificed himself to himself in order to create a loophole instead of just reformatting the rules he supposedly created in the first place. So if the implication here is that magic underwear is more nonsensical than that, I'd have to say it's really not. It's just newer.
• Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
5 Jun 12
But once in office, who is to say, those crazy ideas will not start to affect the policies? If a man is able to make himself believe in magic underwear, and not let the rational behavior prevail, what else can this sort of a mind come up with?
• United States
5 Jun 12
Yeah. I feel ya. But that can be said about any American President here, and also the overwhelming majority of all American politicians in general. It's a fear I have and hold for every religious politician and every person in general who feels their worldview should trump everyone's.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
5 Jun 12
matersfish, has there ever been an atheist president? One who openly espouses a belief that there is NO God?
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
6 Jun 12
I'm glad that you're comfortable sharing your ignorance and bigotry towards the Mormon religion here. Fortunately, in THIS country, we are far more tolerant of various belief systems and generally do not use religion as a way to disqualify politicians. People that attack a candidate's religion, often do it because they lack the knowledge or intelligence to attack the candidate on valid issues. If you care to learn about them I encourage you to do a little research. Many religions have various tokens, symbols, and garments that serve the same purpose. Many Christians carry a cross or scapular, Jewish people often wear yarmulke, sikh wear a saber, Muslims women wear a hijab, etc. Do you regularly mock all religions for the symbols they carry, or is the Mormon face the only recipient of your bigotry?
• Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
6 Jun 12
I'm glad that you feel comfortable lying to yourself. The tolerance over THERE only seems to extend to one certain religion (and all the hundreds, maybe even thousands of different translations of it). If a muslim groups or hindus etc. would be in this position, we would see the real level of tolerance. Attack a candidate on valid issues? Excuse me, have you been following the course of elections, seen the debates/interviews? Romney has managed to flip-flop on every valid issue, speak against himself in the same sentence etc. The man has nothing left exept his religion, which is full of even more BS. In here, such candidates can only dream of a position of power. Thats exactly what made ask this question: how did a man like that get so far? I've done my share of research, even talked to the many mormon missionaries we have strolling around here every day. Those guys and their twisted state of mind is exactly the reason i started do a little research on that issue. Wanted to understand, how is it possible to bend a young mind in such ways, that it starts believing in any fairytale.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
6 Jun 12
The tolerance here would even extend to you my friend. THAT is America. We argue, we disagree, we fight amongst ourselves...you know why? Because we can. Because EVERY view, including YOUR bigotted ideas are allowed. We don't believe everything has to be homogenous and we believe people have a right to live, believe and think as they wish. And others are free to disagree if they wish. Many Hindus, Buddists, many Muslims, many atheists, many Jews, Christians and all the sects within those religions are in positions of power and influence here in America. BECAUSE we do believe in liberty and tolerance. But we are also not afraid to disagree if we so choose. And I've got to remark on this, who the heck are you asking if Americans have seen the debates, the interviews? We are living this, you are only observing it. There is a large difference. We don't elect our leaders according to what Europe wants. We will elect our leaders according to our needs and our wants. thank you.
@Taskr36 (13925)
• United States
7 Jun 12
"The tolerance over THERE only seems to extend to one certain religion" Well I guess in Estonia what SEEMS to be the case just isn't true. This country is extremely tolerant of all religions. We don't have a history of persecuting Jews as is common elsewhere in the world. I've never heard of Hindus, Buddhists, or any other religion with the exception of Muslims claim any serious level of discrimination. This country works so hard to please minority religions that it is Christians who are most likely to have their religion trampled on. You're right that there is plenty of anti-Muslim sentiment in this country. The constant acts of Muslim terrorism and weak condemnations from peaceful Muslims are the reason for that. I don't know what makes you think that there is any level of bigotry towards Hindus here. They actually do quite well and plenty of them hold elected offices in this country. "Attack a candidate on valid issues? Excuse me, have you been following the course of elections, seen the debates/interviews? Romney has managed to flip-flop on every valid issue, speak against himself in the same sentence etc." You're right. So attack him on that. Call him a flip-flopper. Say that you can't believe a word he says. That's what I say about Obama and flip flopping is a perfectly valid issue to attack a candidate on. Religion is not.
@Latrivia (2889)
• United States
8 Jun 12
He has money, power, and pull - plus he's not Obama. I don't see where his tighty-whities factor into this. Not that I support him, but I can vaguely see why people do. Many people want Obama out, and they're betting on the horse they think has the best chance of winning.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
8 Jun 12
Having family who are Mormans and having actually been shown a pair when asked what the big deal about them were, I can tell you they are more like bloomers. but I get your point, does what a person wears under the clothing have anything at all to do with their business and political sense? Heck, he could go comando for all I care about his preference or beliefs about clothes.
• Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
9 Jun 12
Like a broken record:) What part of the word "magic" dont you understand. I dont care what he wears under his suit. I care about his MAGIC underwear. If a man is willing to believe in such nonsense, what else might he be driven to think? Specially, if the man might become the president, who actually has the power to force his nonsense on others. That is my point here.
@Latrivia (2889)
• United States
10 Jun 12
Oh...you mean his Temple garments? He may believe they can actually offer spiritual protection, and he made not. It's no different than having a "lucky" article, like a rabbits foot or ball cap. Why would someone vote for another person who believes there's an invisible man in the sky with omnipotence and omniscience? Surely someone with such ludicrous beliefs would force their odd viewpoints down the throat of the American populace? Yet every president we ever had has believed in some way or another in this invisible man in the sky, but not every president has overstepped his bounds to cram his own theistic beliefs down our throats. It would seem the greatest danger in this case comes more from political beliefs rather than religious ones. So, to answer your question, Americans who vote for Romney do so because of his political beliefs, not his religious ones. If you're curious about what he believes, you could always look it up.
1 person likes this
• United States
5 Jun 12
You do understand that all he had to do to become the Republican nominee is appear to be less of a whack job than Michelle Bachmann, "Goodhair" Perry, Ron Paul, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Tim Pawlenty, and Herman Cain; but more of a whack job than Jon Huntsman, right?
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
5 Jun 12
...and most less of a threat to American freedom, or the economy than Barack Obama.
@mensab (4208)
• Philippines
5 Jun 12
the presidential candidates, even the president, are still humans like us. they are not superhumans that do not have any peculiarities in their own way. i like to follow the american politics because whatever happens there affects the whole world. what i do not like in the american politics is the incredible spending and less choice for the voters.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
5 Jun 12
and that really has nothing to do with his underware, does it?