Did feminism kill chivalry?

United States
September 26, 2012 11:34pm CST
Have we all been taught that a woman does not need to be helped with her chair or should be walking on the storefront/building side of the sidewalk? When was the last time you guy held a door for a woman? When was the last time ladies that a guy gave up his seat on the bus for you?I am wondering why? Is it the times where children are being raise not to be chivalrous or is it that parents are too busy to teach this subtle manner rules? Or is it that many see this as old fashioned? What do you think?
3 people like this
10 responses
@inertia4 (26878)
• United States
27 Sep 12
I don't think parents are teaching their children all the little things. They are all busy and lucky they have time to spend with their children. I guess we grew up at the tail end of the old thinking. I know for a fact that my little cousin, which is no longer little, does not think like that at all. She is all about be independent. She does not need a man to do anything for her. I think that is a good thing. But I do understand the little subtleties of opening a door or helping with a chair. Those are little things that do show a woman that the man does care. But I think for the most part these days that that is becoming a thing of the past real fast. Manners are nice for the man to have, but strangely enough some women don't want that in a man. It seems these days women look at that as a sign of weakness.
@bagarad (7844)
• Paso Robles, California
27 Sep 12
I don't think this sort of woman sees this as weakness in a man as much as she sees it as power struggle. These courtesies had practical meanings when they began to be practiced. Those meanings are now, for the most part, obsolete. People don't throw garbage out the window anymore, so a woman walking on the outside wouldn't get hit. She is no longer being protected by these practices, but she is being recognized as a woman. The problem is, she doesn't want to be recognized this way. She wants to be considered equal with or even dominant to men. She sees special treatment as a woman as soem sort of threat to feeling equal. She thinks the man is considering her too weak to do these things for herself. She sees an attitude of courtesy as a direct assault on her sense of being in control and powerful as the man. She is out to prove something. So she reacts negatively towards the unlucky man who was just trying to use what were always taught as good manners and he wonders what on earth he did to provoke such wrath. Poor guy. This hit when I was in college and it left a lot of confusion in dating. Men had no idea what they were supposed to do because they didn't know what the woman was expecting. The women who were used to having the man open the car door wasn't sure if she should sit and wait or just get out. Maybe men could have asked if the woman would mind if he opened the door for her so they could clear up the confusion before the awkwardness occurred. I always appreciated it, myself, since those car doors can be really heavy.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Sep 12
Then the answer is yes bagarad. Because a few women think it is beneath them to be treated like ladies , All females are suppose to hate chivalry. Wow! Am I glad I am not a feminist! Am I glad I live in the south where where there are still gentlemen. See I do not see a man treating me like a lady as him assuming I am weak, in fact it is the opposite. He is honoring the power All women have. Plus the one thing a man can Still do , even if he is dating a feminist, is protect her. True there is no garbage for her to dodge but there are cars that could skip a curb. If his women is in front of him , he can keep an eye out . But if this lady wants to go out on her own, demean a true gentleman for doing the right thing it is her right. But just make sure she clearly says this goes for her and not all of us.
2 people like this
@inertia4 (26878)
• United States
29 Sep 12
Some people, very few these days, will say old habits die hard. But we do live in a world where women are now equals. They fought for equal rights and won. Like I said before, I grew up at the cusp of the main change. Where women were beginning to become independent but yet wanted that man, the one with manners to still be there. As well as a man to love honor and protect. These days women do see things a whole lot different. Some men treat them as equals. I still believe that this bothers women. In a nut shell, I see it that women want their cake and eat it to. We do see the changes, relationships do not last long, true love seems to be a thing of the past and marriage, well, that is becoming a memory. I believe we should stop with any bull and just be ourselves. What do we all have to lose/ Nothing. I am myself with T and she is herself with me. We care for each other in our own crazy way.
2 people like this
@ShyBear88 (16871)
• United States
28 Sep 12
Hmmm I think this is a cross between some parents just being lazing and not wanting to show or teach there kids how to be chivalrous and also just kids not really caring any more about being nice for people they do know or do not know. I think it also might have to do where you live some times. I know out here in Country compared to living some where more like a city people are kinder and are willing to hold doors for you and so on. I know I have no issues with my husband opening doors for me or giving me his seat. Some times I do the same for him just depending on what kid we both have at the time. While pregnant one time a stranger let me sit down in his spot while I was holding sugar which was very nice of him. I try to teach our little sugar how to be nice and chiavlrous. She can say please and thank you which is a good start for a 1 year old.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Sep 12
She is amazing! Sugar is going to be a wonderful young woman, just like her mama!
1 person likes this
@ShyBear88 (16871)
• United States
29 Sep 12
Thanks.
2 people like this
@carmelanirel (21108)
• United States
27 Sep 12
I guess I am old fashioned as much as I don't want to admit it..lol When my husband does things like hold the door or pulls out a chair at the dinner table, it does make me feel special. Then the times when I am at a store and a man, (or especially a little boy in practice) holds the door, I feel like I am given respect and of course I thank them for their kindness..:)
• United States
27 Sep 12
You are special.To Hubby you are The only woman on the planet for him. He better make you feel like a queen! when I guy lets me get on the bus before him , or steps aside so I can walk through the door I Always say thank you.
2 people like this
• United States
27 Sep 12
But he doesn't do it "every time" I wonder if it is because if he didn't so often that I notice it more? You know, like if he did it too much, maybe I'd take it for granted?
2 people like this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
29 Sep 12
In the way that anything one feels passionate about can cause extreme reaction, some women are very assertive when it comes to being treated "equal." This could effect the way that they are treated for sure as far as the old fashioned chivalry goes. I think that what is often forgotten is there is a difference between being treated the same and actually being the same. Of course we are capable and strong. Independent and able. At the same time..we are women and they are men. I think that there was a few things forgotten when we struggled for our rights. I think that there should have been a new standard of manners presented at the same time. I think the real issue is the fact that our gender roles have been fused since WW2. Women are many things and over time that has been added to instead of anything taken away. Does that make sense?
2 people like this
@allknowing (55063)
• India
29 Sep 12
All the men in my life have been chivalrous towards me despite the fact that many a time I did excel in whatever I handled. I was good in managing finances a portfolio that is considered to be a man's prerogative. I was never suppressed and yet they were always there to 'open the door' or to 'carry my luggage'!
2 people like this
@allknowing (55063)
• India
29 Sep 12
I have no interest in feminism but only believe in the fact that both men and women should work together depending on their respective capabilities. I still want chivalry to be alive and kicking!
2 people like this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
29 Sep 12
I like chivalry too..lol. Working together would certainly get alot more accomplished.
2 people like this
@dawnald (84126)
• Shingle Springs, California
27 Sep 12
Maybe it did, or maybe it's just manners going down the tubes. Personally, I'll hold the door for anybody if they're close enough to it and I get there first.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Sep 12
Me too. The one time I enjoyed was when I held the door for a cop. You should have seen the surprise on his face!
@mythociate (13822)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
27 Sep 12
Feminism (etc.) did kill that loud, flashy kind of chivalry, the kind where the brave knight makes a huge display of effort to serve his Lady---where 'chivalry' gets its true meaning. But ladies still depend on men ... just not visibly or out loud. They depend on men to be strong-but-passive tools for them.
• United States
27 Sep 12
I do not agree.Men still will protect the women. They will still profess their love for the one they love.True they can't have duels but the feelings are still there. The only "passive"men I know of have been married for many years. They are trained to just say " yes dear" and do nothing else, lol.
1 person likes this
@bagarad (7844)
• Paso Robles, California
27 Sep 12
Sarah, Almost every time I go to the post office or other place of business, whomever precedes me, male or female, normally holds the door for me, as I do for someone behind me. My husband opens the door for women and helps seat them in a restaurant or family dinner. He's European, and was brought up that way. However, some women have gotten really touchy about being helped in this way. They almost act as though they've been attacked if a man tries to help with a chair or open a car door. One woman almost hit my husband (when we were in college and before we were married) when he offered to help her with her chair. A man will only take so much of that abuse before he keeps trying to be chivalrous with women he doesn't know well. Personally, I like it when men open doors for me or help with a car door. I think it's too bad some of the feminists ruined it for the rest of us.
• United States
27 Sep 12
My dear Bagarad, you have that grey hair. A guy who would ignore his date would help you. Respecting you elders is in effect. I'm here in Northern VA and I do get guys who will let me get on the bus first. And we, both genders, hold doors for each other. But it is rare to have a guy to give me his seat on the bus.
1 person likes this
@bagarad (7844)
• Paso Robles, California
27 Sep 12
Sarah, I haven't taken an ordinary bus for 12 years. Even then, it was a long Greyhound ride, and there was no problem with seats. I haven't lived in cities with public bus transportation since I was in my thirties. I can tell you that my husband always gave up his seat when he was in college and a young adult, and he will still give his seat to any lady without one. The only time he didn't was when he was on crutches before his hip surgery and he was in his sixties.
1 person likes this
• United States
28 Sep 12
I have never lived in a city without bus service. Your Hubby is a real gentleman!
1 person likes this
@bounce58 (17550)
• Canada
9 Oct 12
I was brought up to hold doors for not only women, but for everybody. When I used to take the bus or the train, I couldn't stand seeing women and older people standing, so I've always offered my seat. But I was also a member of a fraternity in university with a counterpart sorority. They were activists in feminism. They taught us then, that women are always equal. Hence the conflict within guys like me. Always second guessing ourselves to be chivalrous or to let feminism take its lead. I don't think it's killed it, as I try to impart the same traits to my children, but I certainly know that it's brought confusion to some guys. But some guys are always (pretending to be) clueless, but that's another discussion.
1 person likes this
• United States
9 Oct 12
When I grew up man bashing was women's second favorite past time. So I wouldn't blame a guy one bit if he pretended to be clueless. I will Never see women as equal to men. Women have always had the upper hand and nothings has changed. As long as there are straight men, women will rule!
• Canada
30 Sep 12
I SURE HOPE SO, andif not, It'S ABOUT DAMN TIME!!! I don't need to be treated like I'm delicate when I am not. If I am in a car, i will make sure to get the door open before someone comes around to do it, because I think I know how to open a flippin door on my own. Same with table chairs. If a man can open the door for himself, then so the hell can I!!!!!!!
1 person likes this
• United States
30 Sep 12
You mean by a guy being courteous makes you feel delicate? Why? It makes me feel special. It shows that I have more power than any man! I guess I will Never be a feminist.