Do you believe in PREDESTINATION?

October 4, 2012 11:58pm CST
I once had a priveledge to talked to a person who is neither over religious nor less religious. Before we parted ways, he left me with a simple yet very intriguing remarks, " You know brod, when you are Predestinated to be saved, you will be saved, on the other hand, when you are Predestinated to be lost, you will be lost". Do you believe in Predestination, Why and Why not?
1 person likes this
6 responses
@1hopefulman (28541)
• Canada
5 Oct 12
2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 (AMP) 9 The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people’s conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 (CJB) 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some people think of slowness; on the contrary, he is patient with you; for it is not his purpose that anyone should be destroyed, but that everyone should turn from his sins. If God does not desire any to perish or be destroyed then there is no such thing as predestination. We choose what happens to us when it comes to our final destiny. Have a great day!
1 person likes this
• Greece
5 Oct 12
It is good to be reminded of the other side of the coin, namely that God does not want anyone to be condemned. The choice is ours, not His, he has already provided for everyone in Jesus. The problem we have is that we cannot imagine what is involved with 'foreknowledge' and God being outside of time. Someone described it to me as like a person going through a gate on which were written the words 'Whosoever' (John 3.16. that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life) and when they went through the gate and looked back they saw 'predestined' and that is as far as I can understand it.
@1hopefulman (28541)
• Canada
6 Oct 12
Hey Tony! Could you give me the 4 evidences for predestination please? Are you saying that the ultimate destiny of each individual is predestined or that some events or classes of people are predestined?
@1hopefulman (28541)
• Canada
7 Oct 12
41CombedaleRoad! Notice the encouragement: Matthew 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV) 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. The choice of which road we take is ours. Jesus encourages to go through the straight gate and travel the narrow road. The encouragement and the warning would be useless if we were already predestined. What is predestined is that those who are on the narrow road get life and those on the wide road are destroyed.
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@salonga (28016)
• Philippines
5 Oct 12
Predestination is true...absolutely true because the Bible tells it so. Romans 8:29-30 says, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 both state, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will...In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” However some people misunderstood Predestination so that they agreed with Calvin whose interpretation is to me not what the Bible exactly says. Just read the verses and it tells exactly what Predestination is and not how Calvin misinterpreted the doctrine of Predestination.
6 Oct 12
Hi salonga, greetings. Actually, the same question has been presented here at mylot by ronnyb 4 years ago. Interestingly, only one responded. I tried to revived it to see if the new members will altogether shed light on this subject of Predestination. Still, only few responded. Probably, this subject of Predestination is altogether difficult to understand that is why many did not participate. If this word PREDESTINATION is nowhere to find in the Bible, we can just shrugged it off, throw the towel and go home. But it there staring at us. You rightly presented Biblical verses that touches this subject, undeniably written in the Bible. Does not Roman 15:4, teaches us, "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope" (cf. II Tim. 3:16). I really appreciate your comments but still, I respectfully request you to hang on and follow the thread. All the best mangtony.
@livewyre (2455)
8 Oct 12
The idea of predestination comes about because the word 'predestined' appears in our translation of the Bible, and in a sense it is correct, but we must step out of our narrow minds to understand it. Suppose you are God (way to start a conversation)... my belief is that God sees below him not only all the people in all the countries in the world as individuals, but that he also sees time as a long line from start to finish. He sees it all now, right now - he can see creation and he can see whatever the end times will bring at the same time. He knows what decisions we will make at every juncture of our life - it's not difficult for him - even our earthly Father's are quite good at that... but he knows perfectly - he doesn't have to force us to do anything because he 'knows' what we will do. He even knows when we will do something apparently 'random'. Now the problem many people have is that they think this precludes their choice - this is the misunderstanding (IMO) just because God knows what we will do, does not mean that we have no choice - we have ultimate choice and that is because that is exactly how God wanted us to be. It's just that God knows what that choice will be even before you have thought about making it - but it's still YOUR choice. It is not uncommon for people to say that predestination means they don't have to make a choice for themselves - I believe that this usually a 'clever excuse' one they know people will struggle to explain. Alternatively, people may have a chip on their shoulder about God and use it as a kind of rebellious answer, but in all honesty, we all know that we are not puppets, so predestination cannot properly be used to make the excuse that you referred to (IMO).
8 Oct 12
Hi livewyre. greetings. First i would like to say your comment is very appreciated. Digressing your first sentence make me wonder if in case two Greek speaking persons are discussing about "proorizo" (G4309), what could possibly be the resulting idea. If even an authority in Greek language like Thayer define proorizo as; 1. to predetermine, decide beforehand, 2. in the NT of God decreeing from eternity, 3. to foreordain, appoint beforehand. Like i said, if the word Predestination is nowhere to find in the Bible, then we have no problem. But it is there undeniably written. Still, there are two ways to handle it; 1. To step up of our narrow mind and ignore it, and 2. To TRY to reconcile/harmonize the Bible however difficult or seemingly contradictory. As for me, I go for the second. All the best mangtony.
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@livewyre (2455)
9 Oct 12
Hi Mangtony - thank you for your response I think there are maybe three ways to handle the problem 1. to ignore it and treat it as a 'contradiction' 2. to understand it in the simple terms that those that preach 'predestination' theology 3. to attempt to understand it in conjunction with what the rest of the Bible tells us I go for option 3 because 1 and 2 don't work for me... In my thoughts and meditations about God, it seems to me that whilst we are firmly stuck in the here and now, God has no such boundaries, so to interpret 'predestined' in purely 'linear' terms ignores the fact that God is outside of time (therefore the word 'predestined' need not be applied in it's simple meaning)
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (28541)
• Canada
9 Oct 12
I'll take door #3!
2 people like this
• United States
6 Oct 12
I don't believe in predestination because we choose whether or not if we want to be saved. Its a choice, its not a religion, its a relationship. Just like the relationships we choose in life for a spouse or a friend. We choose salvation because we cannot obtain it on our own. People who are lost have not found God and those who have found him and follow him will never be guided away from him.
6 Oct 12
Hi gitfiddleplayer, greetings. Your comment is very much appreciated. You have answered just fine. I respect everything you said and those that responded in this discussion. But that doesn't mean the issue of PREDESTINATION has been settled as far as the consistency and harmony of the whole Bible is concerned. All the best mangtony.
@Eppie2010 (509)
• Philippines
5 Oct 12
Yes and no... for me predestination applies to other aspects but not in all aspects. It's hard for me to explain but I'm sure you more or less get my point. :)
6 Oct 12
Hi Eppie2010, greetings. Honestly, I am not sure of what you are pointing at. But first let me say, I really appreciate your response. If you could just give me more hints, then probably I can elaborate farther. Frankly speaking, your's is the most difficult of them all. God Bless. All the best mangtony.
• United States
5 Oct 12
I don't believe in predestination, because that means that God picked X amount of people to become Christians and that kind of nullifies free will if it means that a sinner can't repent because only X amount of people were predestined to become Christians.
6 Oct 12
Hello, ReviewMeMedia, greetings. Your response is very much appreciated. You rightly voice out what you believed and directly gave answer to the question. Although, the latter part of it seems to be an opinion rather than biblical facts. For a serious Bible Student and a determined seeker of Truth, he/she will leave no stones unturned, applying the biblical principle of II Tim. 2;15, " Study to show yourselves approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". All the best mangtony.