Petition to strip secession petition signatories of US citizenship

@Rollo1 (16685)
Boston, Massachusetts
November 13, 2012 1:43pm CST
In response to the secession petitions of a large number of states to peacefully secede, a new petition has been added at the White House website that asks the president to strip every one who signed the petitions of their US citizenship by executive order. "Mr. President, please sign an executive order such that each American citizen who signed a petition from any state to secede from the USA shall have their citizenship stripped and be peacefully deported." Now, since we realize that most of those petitions are simply a way for people to express their displeasure with the current administration's policies and the results of the election, why the vicious backlash? Isn't it interesting though, that they want the President to act as the single judge and pass sentence? What isn't clear is whether he can do that under the NDAA. He certainly could if the Enemy Expatriation Act had been passed, but that hasn't happened yet. Do you think it likely that the petition will garner the 25,000 signatures necessary to get a WH response? If you support Obama, do you support stripping all those who don't support him of their citizenship? Is this now a country where you support the president blindly and without question or we take away your civil liberties?
4 people like this
14 responses
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
13 Nov 12
Rollo1 (3271) It seems we often come up with a confict of one man's rights means anothers rights are taken away. This petition is just creepy to me...if one can lose their citizenship for merely signing a petition, then we are in big trouble...
3 people like this
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
14 Nov 12
I don't know that I would even go to White House.gov unless I was using an incognito browser, let alone affix my name to a petition there. These people may wish that their states did secede. How do we know what the repercussions of signing one of these petitions might be?
1 person likes this
@oneidmnster (1389)
• United States
13 Nov 12
What scares me is that it wouldn't surprise me if Obama actually put some thought into doing just that. He's already shown that he's not above using Executive Power to do things that the people are against. He's shown that he doesn't cars about our country. Why wouldn't he be willing to get rid of his detractors? Nothing he does would surprise me.
2 people like this
@deazil (4547)
• United States
13 Nov 12
My feelings exactly.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 12
Eventually, or should I say sooner or later, the left will get rid of its detractors. The Bible prophecies it, Rev 20:4. I call it "the dove will befriend the vulture".
• United States
14 Nov 12
Flower, you can interpret the bible to say anything you want. I have also seen this used to explain how Bush and Cheney were brought together.
@matersfish (6311)
• United States
13 Nov 12
Don't have much different to add than Metallion. Stop whining about wanting to cease to be part of America just because you lost. And stop trying to have Obama rule as dictator, you fake Woody Allens. Everybody just relax! On one hand, it's good that so many people are interested in politics. On the other hand, you don't have to take your ball and go home just because you got beat in H.O.R.S.E., and you don't have to get your dad to forever ban someone from your yard if they want to take their ball and go. This is all some kiddie nonsense in my opinion. Be adults. Keep your head down, work, take care of you and yours, vote when you get a chance, and get a tissue if you feel the need to cry.
2 people like this
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
14 Nov 12
The leader of the secession movement says it isn't all about Obama, it's about the economy and the policies that have grown the government. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83776.html I don't know what the leader of the citizen stripping petition has to say. It's funny, but back in the sixties when the hippies were protesting war and complaining about inequities in America, the conservative types said "America, love it or leave it". The hippies said they loved their country enough to see what was wrong and to try to change it. Now it's the liberals saying "if you don't like it, get out". And the conservatives say, we love our country but it's off track. The more things change, the more things stay the same? Maybe both sides feel they have to do something extreme to get the other side's attention? In the case of Obama, I don't think it will work.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
I just know that wanting to no longer be a part of America isn't very American at all. There are those of us who feel that AMERICA isn't AMERICA anymore. Who's right and who's wrong depends on who adhere's to our founding principles. THOSE are what made us a nation. Not geography or birth or immigration status. America was an IDEA. When we no longer follow that IDEAL we cease to be a nation. Those who understand what that IDEAL is, do not see us united to begin with. We are trying to WAKE PEOPLE UP to the loss of the American ideal.
• United States
16 Nov 12
Part of the beauty of these founding principles everyone loves to mention is that we are free people, not dictated to by any controlling being, body or documents. If people want America to change, that is as American as you can get. It's not a change I like. I fear that people want America to change into something that will no longer be America. They're just too blinded by selfish reasons to realize that their "change" is actually just selling American freedom back to government control. But their right to vote for what they want is as American as it gets. If there are measures in place to stop their freedom from doing that, that's what's not American. If folks want to no longer be Americans because they can't handle it, I ain't mad at 'em. Leave if y'all want. Just don't expect any postcards from me.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
I find it disgusting that an American citizen would not acknowledge or even recognize that he/she has a right (unalienable, God given, natural law)to petition their government for a redress of grievances. I find it reprehensible that some citizens would call for the stripping of constitutionally held citizenship from those who act on this first amendment right. Those citizens are the REASON many feel we've let things go to far, that America is no longer a Constitutional Republic and has slipped into tyranny. http://www.givemeliberty.org/rtplawsuit/SignPetitions.htm "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
2 people like this
@Maggiepie (7821)
• United States
23 Nov 12
[b]Debra, Elic is convinced that a law was passed some time back which made it illegal to secede. If she's correct, how did it get through, since it's unconstitutional?? Do you have any idea about this "law?" Maggiepie[/b]
@urbandekay (18312)
13 Nov 12
Now, since we realize that most of those petitions are simply a way for people to express their displeasure with the current administration's policies and the results of the election. In other words a petty tantrum or sour grapes of those who can't bear to accept the democratic vote, poor little spoilt children all the best, urban
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
13 Nov 12
And a request to strip them of citizenship for being displeased isn't a tantrum? Of course, the UK has its share of spoilt children, as I remember them rioting in the streets when the government announced tuition increases. I guess people everywhere just don't like it when you move their cheese.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18312)
13 Nov 12
"And a request to strip them of citizenship for being displeased isn't a tantrum" Perhaps, I regarded it more as a rather ironic raa comment on the previous petition all the best, urban
• United States
14 Nov 12
Many are pretty tired of an unfair playing field as the libs hold sway over both the 'news' media, so everything is skewered to the left and all 'blame' is projected on the right.. and over education.. AnD, the idea, I'm sure is, if this country is not going to be the America we live in but changing to a socialist state, many will want out!
@dragon54u (31638)
• United States
13 Nov 12
What an idiot. Those petitions are expressions of the degree of agitation that people are feeling, not a heartfelt desire to tear the country apart. You can't fix stupid.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
13 Nov 12
I think an equal and opposite reaction to the secession petitions would be a petition to let them secede and anyone not liking those new states/countries could petition to move to the US as it would now be. Of course, no one is going to secede. However, the call to strip the signatories of their citizenship is a slightly exaggerated reaction.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 12
"Of course, no one is going to secede. However, the call to strip the signatories of their citizenship is a slightly exaggerated reaction." And calling for states to secede isn't "a slightly exaggerated reaction"? You are correct Dragon: "You can't fix stupid"
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
14 Nov 12
There is a difference, Debater. A collection of signatures from the citizens of a state is not a basis for a president to even allow secession. The state government is in authority over those citizens primarily, they would have to petition the state government to ask to secede. This is just a protest, just like any other protest movement, and is symbolic. On the other hand, our current president has already taken for himself authority and power he does not have constitutionally. The NDAA is an example. It is impossible to know whether or not he might attempt to do exactly as this petition asks. I might believe that thousands of people camping out in a NY park and defecating on police cars is an exaggerated reaction, but OWS considers itself a protest movement and lots of people, including the president, endorsed their exaggerated reactions.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 12
"Is this now a country where you support the president blindly and without question or we take away your civil liberties? " This is like Deja vu all over again. I remember when people blindly supported a president and they actually TOOK civil liberties away from people. Funny, I know you were alive during the Bush years, yet it sounds like you weren't against that when republicans did it!!!!
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Nov 12
Obligatory "Bush did it" response.
2 people like this
• United States
19 Nov 12
Don't you just hate it when FACTS get in the way of a good rant?
@peavey (16866)
• United States
14 Nov 12
I certainly hope it doesn't get to 25,000 signatures, but in the current environment, it could. I think the critical question you asked is " Is this now a country where you support the president blindly and without question or we take away your civil liberties?" My answer is no... but it's true that the Patriot Act was the beginning of many of our current laws that curtail freedom. If Obama did sign an order that takes away citizenship, would he not be a dictator de facto? I think so. Leaving a country voluntarily is done all the time. Leaving it by being deported means that you have done something very wrong, like treason. Asking to leave a country is not treason. Of course, we're pretty sure that no state will actually secede. If they do, it's not because they're not patriotic, it's because they are patriotic. The United States was born and grew under a totally different set of morals, political philosophies and personal ideals than it is now. If someone wants to return that, they are not wrong, neither are they unpatriotic. Will he sign it? Probably not. He needs all the tax payers he can get to support those who don't pay taxes.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. ...If they do, it's not because they're not patriotic, it's because they are patriotic. The United States was born and grew under a totally different set of morals, political philosophies and personal ideals than it is now. If someone wants to return that, they are not wrong, neither are they unpatriotic.
@flowerchilde (12547)
• United States
14 Nov 12
Why the vicious backlash? That's just the normal order of business. For decades now I've witnessed the left's condescension as the answer to all issues.. and now I see how condescension is turning and has turned for many, into hate your guts hatred. So, I am not one tiny bit surprised by this attitude from the party of peace and tolerance..
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
Now that they see they have the 'upper hand' and 'we lost' they feel they are free to destroy, hate, and belittle conservatives even further. BUT, what these petitions show me and should show them, is that conservatives are standing up to the leftist agenda and have become willing to RISK their reputations and livlihoods for liberty's sake...like they did in 1776.
1 person likes this
• United States
13 Nov 12
Those signing the secession petitions are within their First Amendment rights to do so, though in doing so they forever forfeit any claim to patriotism. Those signing the citizenship revocation petitions are also within their First Amendment rights to do so, though in doing so they also show their moral and educational failings. The answer to these petitions, should they get enough signatures to warrant signature of course will be no. We do not break up the union because someone doesn't like how the election went, the President does not and should not have the authority to revoke citizenship -- and hopefully this can illustrate why the Enemy Expatriation Act should be allowed to wither and die.
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
13 Nov 12
I agree that the Enemy Expatriation Act should never pass and was a terrible idea to begin with.
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8160)
• United States
13 Nov 12
Metallion I do not see things the same as you but this is one exception. These people are exercising their constitutional rights and to lose your citizenship rights for exercising them is foolish. Maybe we should be teaching the US Constitution in our schools rather than how to be politically correct.
@urbandekay (18312)
13 Nov 12
Teaching the US constitution in school! Now that would be interesting. Now then children, now that the constitution requires you to take up arms against a government who in the exercises of its powers acts tyrannically. If that didn't start a revolution, then parents reaction to it would! all the best, urban
@millertime (1398)
• United States
15 Nov 12
All of the secession petitions are simply protests against the Obama administration and their policies. None of them will lead to an actual secession, mainly because they aren't real petitions and even if they were, petitions to the White House about secession are worthless. Even the Texas petition, which has by far the most "signatures", won't lead to anything, although if any state was actually going to secede, I think it would be Texas. The other petitions, and their are two of them, to deport and strip the citizenship of everyone who signed a secession petition, are simply childish responses to people protesting. They are also probably in violation of the terms of the website because they call for taking direct action against a specific group of people or individuals. This is another example of the hypocrisy of the left. They claim to be the party of tolerance, but they are clearly not tolerant of anyone who doesn't agree with them. They are in favor of protest, but not if you're protesting what they believe in. They are in favor of free speech, but not if you're speaking out about anything they don't agree with. They would have citizens stripped of their rights, simply because they are voicing an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs. In actuality, it's all pretty silly. The petitions are meaningless anyway. The Obama administration doesn't pay any attention to them. I doubt he is even aware of them except for the fact that they made the news. Rest assured, he will not respond to them. Some lackey at the bottom of the White House totem pole will be charged with drumming up some meaningless discourse to satisfy the requirement of a "White House response". I read some of the responses to other petitions. I think they were composed by some politician in training because they were often several paragraphs that say absolutely nothing. By the way, there are now petitions to impeach the president, let Atlanta withdraw from the state of Georgia and remain part of the U.S., affirm that N. Carolina remain part of the U.S. and many other silly petitions. They are being started left and right, many in direct retaliation to other petitions, by people behaving like kids fighting in the school yard. It really just makes a mockery of the process of addressing real issues to the White House, not that they listen anyway. It's just all so much nonsense...
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
I don't see this as 'kids fighting in the school yard'. I see it as a very real indication of the depth of the divide in this country. States must vote within their legislatures to leave the union, and even then the federal government can forcefully compel them to stay. A petition is, as we've established, a protest over the federal government's intrusion into the the lives of its citizens. And EVERY citizen has the right to petition the government for redress of grievances. THAT there is an element within the country that would demand such citizens be deported is indeed scary. For in doing so, they are showing their lack of education on just what it took for America to become AMERICA and begging for their government to become even MORE tyrannical.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
17 Nov 12
Thank you Millertime.
@Asylum (48223)
• Manchester, England
14 Nov 12
This is a very dubious area and not one that can be easily decided. I can understand the attitude of those people submitting such a petition because the signatories are openly declaring that they do not wish to remain citizens of the USA. Nevertheless, without secession actually taking place then these people will be natural citizens who were born there. Where could they possibly be deported to? My opinions of Obama as president would be irrelevant because I am not a American citizen and not qualified to judge his period of office. However, I can confidently say that there is virtually no way that he or any other politician can reasonably consider deporting a natural citizen.
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
Why not, he's made it law that a natural citizen can be jailed without due process. Merely the NEXT step if you ask me.
@Asylum (48223)
• Manchester, England
18 Nov 12
I had no idea about the new law governing someone being jailed without due process, and I am very surprised about that as well. This is a serious denial of civil liberty and certainly not the kind of thing that I would have associated with the USA.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
13 Nov 12
I think both sets of petitions are childish. Firstly, no one is going to get to secede and this isn't the first time some states had tried to secede because of a presidential election. I am pretty sure people wanted to secede under Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy and the list goes on. I do not believe there should be a petition to strip them of their citizenship. However... You can not call one vicious backlash without calling the other vicious backlash. Just because one side thinks it is vicious backlash to want secession petition signers to leave the USA... It can easily have been seen as vicious backlash to want to start a petition to secede because things didn't go their way. Both are childish. It is simple. If they don't like something, then in the next four years vote and hope that everyone votes with you. If it is so bad that you truly can't stand it then leave the country otherwise deal with it. The way both sides are handling this is an embarrassment.
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
14 Nov 12
None of the states will secede, and it wouldn't matter how many signatures they got, Obama cannot give the states the right to secede since the states haven't asked for it. These citizens would have to petition their state government and the state government would have to ask for the right to secede. These petitions are just a grass roots protest. They don't really accomplish anything other than a way to express a grievance. Signing these petitions has the same effect as camping out in Zuccotti Park for months - none at all. They are both protests. On the other hand, I don't think those who ask the president to strip citizenship from others are expressing a grievance. What is their grievance? They don't like the people who signed the petition? And what if the president acted on their petition. He has more power to act on that one than any of the others. This petition is not a protest, it is a call to vengeance. It's not the same. Both are free to ask whatever they like, but one doesn't expect to see action taken, the second one just might. I can't imagine liberals would be saddened to see tens of thousands of conservatives deported. They would never have to see the initial R after anyone's name ever again.
2 people like this
• United States
14 Nov 12
Many conservatives are getting very ticked over what they see as a very lopsided playing field, due to the press and 'news' outlets being dominantly liberal, to say nothing of the nation's education..
1 person likes this
• United States
13 Nov 12
This doesn't seem to be representative of the majority of Obama supporters. Of course there are things that no one is happy about. It doesn't seem likely that the President will pay attention to this new petition. If people want to revoke their citizenship and take up residence in a different country, that is their choice. If they serve in the armed forces, holding a government office, or voting in the elections of a foreign country, then the government has the right to revoke their U.S. citizenship.
@Rollo1 (16685)
• Boston, Massachusetts
14 Nov 12
If they are successful or wealthy citizens, they may just leave the country anyway to avoid the punitive tax rates that Obama plans. It's happening in France. They announced astronomical taxes on the wealthy, and the wealthy are just leaving the country. What did they expect?
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19924)
• United States
16 Nov 12
People want their president to abide by the Constitution, they want him to stop ruling by executive order, and they want the federal agencies like the IRS and EPA off their backs. It amazes me that so many are so clueless on what is being taken from them.