Why can't atheists just celebrate Christmas as the B-Day of a Prophet

@stary1 (6622)
United States
December 1, 2012 10:46pm CST
With this annual war on Chirstmas by some secularists/atheists, I wonder if they couldn't just celebrate Christmas as the birthday of a great philosopher, Jesus? While we don't know the exact day of His birth, that is what Christmas is .... I heard this POV on O'Reilly's talking points and thought it was an excellent point Many consider Jesus a great Prophet so if they don't think he is the son of God, couldn't they just celebrate his great teachings ...that way they could stop the nonsense of removing the word Christmas..and stop this separation of church and state argument. Besides, America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and so religion doesn't have to enter the discussion except for those who want to celebrate a religion. The founders were Deists who would be ok with the teachings of Jesus...
1 person likes this
13 responses
2 Dec 12
Christians stole the holiday from pegans anyway. So I celebrate it as a time of giving, a time of plenty in the bleakness of winter, and the darkest hour before the sun finally starts coming back. It has nothing to do with Christ, god, or any other religious scripture. And I agree with removing the word Christmas. Most every religion and culture has some sort of winter celebration. Who are we to use one interpretation of the celebrations everywhere?
1 person likes this
2 Dec 12
Christmas is a generalized winter holiday, mostly celebrating that the worst is over. And by the way, saying "xmas" isn't taking Christ out, at all. X is an abbreviation of Christ. It is hard to rename, but is the Christians could rename it from the winter solstice, then we can take the celebration back.
@Asylum (43977)
• Manchester, England
2 Dec 12
I agree with katthevamp that Xmas is simply replacing Christ with the initial of his name in Greek. It was originated by monastic scholars centuries ago, although I can not remember exactly which monastic sect it was. As for renaming Christmas, I have to disagree with that. Christmas is a centuries old tradition and I shall always use that name for it.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
4 Dec 12
katthevamp Yes it was a Pagan holiday before it was Christmas and part of the reason Christmas was set up was the church wanted to lure people away from the pagan festivities...we know now Christ wasn't really born Dec 25... One reason we can keep and promote Christmas is out of respect to the tradition and there is nothing wrong with the good parts of Christmas..those who would eliminate it are wrong..in my opinion, of course.
@chiyosan (29390)
• Philippines
2 Dec 12
i think that is because of the differences in beliefs, yes, jesus is known to all but then, he is viewed differently by different cultures of different religious views. a group's celebration cannot be the same as other group;s celebration. we celebrate a birthday of our family members, but others may not share it... this is how i view it.
1 person likes this
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
2 Dec 12
chiyosan Then everyone can just celebrate the tradition of Christmas in their own way..some will consider Him divine, others will see Him as a great philosopher or prophect. This way we include all and eliminate bad feelings of 'war' on Christmas under the argument of separation of church and state...
@ElicBxn (59688)
• United States
2 Dec 12
But they don't believe in prophets. And they don't think Jesus was a philosopher because so many people have used him as an excuse for killing people. In fact, they don't really believe he existed.
@Asylum (43977)
• Manchester, England
2 Dec 12
That is absolute nonsense, there is no doubt that Christ existed. To deny the existence of Christ would be as ridiculous as denying the existence of Egypt simply because it was mentioned in the Bible. There is a great deal of historical evidence to support the existence of Christ. I have never doubted the fact of Christ's existence and that he was a prophet, I simply do not believe that he was the Son of God. He was also a very successful prophet and he had a profound effect over a vast area. Even the Roman Empire started to take notice because he undermined their power and authority by giving the populace something to believe in. He has been used as an excuse for many wars, but he can not be blamed for the actions of others.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (59688)
• United States
2 Dec 12
No, actually, Egypt is mentioned in many other places besides the Bible. There is no other reference to Jesus besides the Bible. If you take the Bible out of the mix, there are no references to Jesus.
@ElicBxn (59688)
• United States
3 Dec 12
But its more a reference to the Christians killed by Nero and saying they follow this person, rather than referring to Jesus as a current person.
@carmelanirel (21108)
• United States
2 Dec 12
I find it interesting that you said America was founded on "Judeo-Christian principles" because did you know they didn't celebrate Christmas?
• United States
5 Dec 12
No, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and they didn't celebrate Christmas, in fact that is why the Pilgrims left England. Here is a video I watched the other day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZAL80TMLaE And this is from the History Channel; there are 5 videos, but I only saw the first one so far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT-Mms2t1hA So if anyone observed it in the beginning, it was after the Pilgrims came.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
7 Dec 12
carmelanirel I don't know about Pilgrims and Christmas but I stand by the idea the nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles..
@McCreeper (781)
• United States
2 Dec 12
I'm certain that if you're talking about the United States that I'll have to disagree that Christmas shouldn't be removed. Our founders may be predominantly Judeo-Christian, though they let us practice our separate religions peacefully, and that's still how it is today. Though I am a bit disappointed that Christmas is removed publicly as well, it's really all in the sense of all or nothing; (I originally was Christian, though I became Atheist over time)
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
2 Dec 12
McCreeper Sorry I wasn't clear..yes I was speaking only of the US. I don't understand why you want Christ removed from Christmas...I accept you have become an atheist but I assume you also still recognise the teachings of Jesus (as in love, peace, forgiveness, etc) to be for the betterment of society. That being the case, why not just celebrate Jesus B-Day and allow those who want to keep their tradition of using the Christmas greetings instead of replacing it with Holiday greetings?
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
3 Dec 12
habibti320 Yes I agree the problem is not just atheists..but they are the ones who seem to organize a 'war' on Christmas every year so I mentined them... plus there isn't a lot of room in the title to list everyone.. I am ok with being inclusive of everyone as long as Christmas is honored and part of the reason for that is tradition ...
@lampar (7605)
• United States
5 Dec 12
They can not do that, it will make them look un-atheists in the public eye. Traditionally atheists don't believe in the existence of God, or son of God or prophet or messiah mentioned in all major religions. They prefer to celebrate Christmas as the birth day of Santa Claus instead of any religion's personality.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
7 Dec 12
lampar Well they could just celebrate the Birthday of a good man who influenced the world but in their opinion is not God. That would be a heck of a lot better than trying to ban nativity scenes all over town.. How about celebrating the birth of Santa Claus and Jesus...
@lampar (7605)
• United States
11 Dec 12
Sound fine with me, my friend! By the way, are both of them the same person in your personal opinion??? They sure look quite similar to my eye.
@robspeakman (1707)
2 Dec 12
Yet another gibberish post from a Christian who doesn't know what an Atheist is. Also one of those that thinks there was no world before Christianity. I suspect you are American, because in the rest of the MODERN world we all exists together. First - Christmas is a festival that was created by the early Christian Romans to sneakily intergrate and convert heathens and pagans into Christian. Christmas hijacked a pagan festival that existed for thousands and thousand of years. It was to celebrate the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year - Christmas day as a Christiab celebration has only existed for a little over 1500 years. In fact most Christian holy days are hijacked Pagan festivals. Paganism fills Christian ritual... I will give you one, The church Altar. Another point... Do you even know what you are talking about when you say Atheist? There are hundreds of branches or Humanism/Atheism - REASEARCH PLEASE!! It would be like me say that ISLAM is just the same as CHRISTIANITY Atheism means not believing in a GOD or DIETY, it does not mean that some Atheists do not have faith or a spiritual outlook in life. Some BUDDHISTS are Atheists. I am grateful that I live in a secular Country and I thank GOD for making me an ATHEIST
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
robspeakman Whoa..sorry if I upset you..I respect all your thoughts. I hope you are ok with someone disagreeing with you as I am and I could learn from your POV. I am aware of the the world before Christianity..in fact I have a lot of admiration for some of the Pagans...some were more spiritutal than our modern day Christians and/or other religious people... I am an American, my parents were immigrants.. I am a non-practicing Catholic and and very aware of the control the Catholic church used to keep and maintain control over their members..so of course I know why Christmas was set up to counter the Pagan holiday.. I don't know as much about Atheists as I would like to and I continue to learn. Many that I do know are awesome peole, though I disagree with their philosophical views. Islam and Christanity have Jesus in common even if Christianity considers Him divine while He is a great Prophet for Muslims. I think they wouldd be a perfect group to just honore the man Jesus on Christmas instead of the religious Jesus of Christians. I admire Buddism and Buddists..I have studied the religion a bit, but while technically you are correct they don't beleve in Christian God, their's is a spiritual belief that I find quite helpful to read and study and even apply. I am not aware of spiritual beliefs among Aheists unless you are calling Buddists atheists...my limited knowledge tells me Atheists don't believe in First Cause, Creator, God, etc.. I apologize with the limnited space and time I gave you the wrong impression that I was speaking of ALL atheists when I wrote ths..I'll try to be more careful so I don't upsetr anyone else..Thanks for your input!!!
• United States
10 Dec 12
@stary1 Thanks for being respectful in your tone and response. I'd be happy to participate in more of your discussions! Sometimes it's scary to post about things like this since people become heated and passionate so quickly and often become mean-spirited in their responses.
@choybel (5059)
• Philippines
2 Dec 12
I think that not wanting to celebrate it is okay as long as they don't ruin it. I'm not saying they are but if they have something against the celebration, then they must just keep them to themselves unless they are force to celebrate it as well.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
choybel ..I agree that not clelbratng is ok if that is their choice, but I don't like when some want to ruin it for others. I also don't think the recurring 'war on Christmas' is unnecessary or helpful ...
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
OOPS...I menat to spell celebrating correctly and I meant to say "I also don't think the recurring 'war on Christmas' is NECESSARY or helpful ... sorry about that mistake
@edvc77 (2143)
• Philippines
3 Dec 12
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He is God too. Atheists do not believe in God. I'm really sorry for them. However, God wants everyone to be saved. We never know one day, God will reveal Himself to them and believe. Thanks for this discussion. God Bless
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
7 Dec 12
edvc77 Atheists probably would say don't feel sorry for them, but secretly you could pray for them without telling them
• United States
2 Dec 12
I celebrate lots of holidays from religions that I don't believe in. And I am an atheist (brought up Christian). I go to Iftar dinners, puja, carol sing-a-longs, etc. I love Christmas because people are generally in a good mood, my family gets together, and there are so many special traditions. I don't have any problem with people celebrating it. However, please be careful of touting this idea that America was "founded on Judeo-Christian values". It is commonly used as a way to uphold that power of the "majority" trampling on the rights of the minority. The religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers were diverse within a predominantly Christian culture, which was typical of their time and place. The Constitution and Bill of Rights do not establish a Judeo-Christian nation, but protect the freedom to practice any religion or not practice a religion. This is not just for religious people, but also for non-religious people.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
7 Dec 12
habibti320 I am glad to hear you say you have no pronblem with Christmas and I do appreciate the fact that many ateists feel that way, but there is an element who are trying to go against anything having to do with God or Christ.... No state religion should be established, but there is another point that is often mistaken. There is no quarantee from all religion in the public square
@Asylum (43977)
• Manchester, England
2 Dec 12
This is the second discussion that I have encountered where atheists have been classed as in opposition to Christmas. I have no idea where this opinion originated but I refute the suggestion wholeheartedly. Why should I object to how or why you celebrate Christmas? That is purely your own choice. I do not believe in Santa Claus, but I have no desire to oppose the idea. I have been a life long atheist, simply because I have no reason to believe in an omnipotent or immortal creator. I have nothing against any religion and respect the choice of the individual to follow his or her own beliefs, yet I have often been viewed as the enemy by various Christians.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
Asylum My apologies for not making it clear that I know that not all atheists feel the same. My disagreement is with those atheists who work with groups like the .... American Atheists and the Freedom from Religion Foundation . Here is a link to what is happening im my state ..Cal http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/22/us/california-nativity-atheists/index.html .
@savypat (20248)
• United States
2 Dec 12
Why would they want to? If it's a celebration why not New Years? We are pretty sure that Jesus was born in the late Spring, Our Christmass date came about to offer a celebration to more people who celebrate the Winter Solstice. I forget which Pope decreed this.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
savypat In my opinion it would just include more people in the tradition and perhaps eliminate some of this war on Christmas stuff... I understand some would not want any part of it but maybe some more would... I like keeping traditions and perhaps if we emphasized Jesus the great philosopher more, we would take some emphasis off Santa Claus..Santa Claus could just be someone who brings gifts to help celebrate Jesus Birthday even if it isn't His real birthday And those who want to celebrate St Nicholus instead of Santa would do so too...
@WakeUpKitty (8716)
• Netherlands
2 Dec 12
I think many people do celebrate christmas with presents and Santa Claus or? According to me this has nothing to do with jesus his birthday. If you are a christian you should not talk about santa claus or presents but go to church at midnight and have a great time with your fellow believers instead of keeping nonsense (santa claus and presents) alive and using a christmas tree (midwinter tradition Dec. 21 of the people who believed (different things and now suddenly called pagan or atheists) because it makes jesus his birth looking more interesting. I am not celebrating christmas and my children know perfectly why. They don't care about it. If it comes to that I am happy I am not living in the USA (or have to deal with sky high bills in Januar because of presents people want, I can not afford and which probably end up in the trash can). I also do not feel the need to celebrate the some day of some prophet. No matter if it's jesus or mohammed! You think an atheist should celebrate Mohammed as well? And how about all these other great philosophers worldwide?
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
5 Dec 12
WakeUpKitty I respect everyone's views. The reason I wanted to expand the celebration of Jesus as a great man, was for those who do not think He is God, was to be more inclusive. Jesus represents a traditional majority belief in the US but I wanted to include as many as possible without all this conflict over removing Christ from the Christmas season. I sort of compared it to celebrating Martin L King Day..MLK had a great philosophy and so does Jesus ...in addition to many of us believing Jesus is Divine