A Shocker in the UK
By Jeff Moffitt
@moffittjc (118421)
Gainesville, Florida
June 24, 2016 6:45am CST
I'm not sure if many Americans have been following this closely, or are even aware of what is going on in Britain, but yesterday the citizens of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. It was a close vote, about 52% in favor of leaving versus 48% in favor of staying in the European Union.
I know there are pros and cons to both sides of the argument, but overall--looking at the big picture--I don't know how this can be a good move. Already, financial markets across the globe plunged in reaction to the news--which, by the way people are reacting today, came as a shock. Prime Minister David Cameron even announced his resignation after the result of the votes were in.
And it seemed to be a shock for a lot of other people as well, including proponents of Brexit (as the vote was called), because even many supporters of leaving the European Union were startled to find out the news.
What's interesting is that every major world leader supported Britain remaining in the European Union. Even Sinn Fein, the political arm of the old Irish Republican Army, and the Scottish government, wanted UK to remain in the European Union.
What is going to happen to Britain now? Only time will tell. But already Scotland is hinting at calling for another referendum to leave the United Kingdom, and Sinn Fein is worried that tensions could flare once again in Northern Ireland, leading to renewed violence in a region with a fragile peace hanging on by a thread.
I would love to hear from all of you UK myLotters and see what your perspective on the situation is. I have expressed my opinion on what I thought was the best course of action, but I'm sitting here in the comfort of my living room several thousand miles away from the UK, so I admit I don't know all the details and don't have all the facts.
In the true myLot fashion, let's keep any discussion on the subject cordial and respectful!
19 people like this
19 responses
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
24 Jun 16
The sad thing is that none of us had 'all the facts' and most UK citizens were confused and befuddled by what both sides paraded as 'facts' but which were, for the most part, speculation. I believe that many people voted 'out' merely because of the rather worrying influx of immigrants (a 'fact' about which there were a lot of wildly inaccurate misconceptions) and the much-vaunted 'fact' that the amount of money the UK contributed to the EU was enough to 'build [a startling number] of NHS hospitals every day!' (whether or not that money would actually be spent on building hospitals and where the staff and the money to pay them would come from is another matter, of course).
All in all, I think that the British public were rather ill-equipped to decide and one can't help feeling that much of the 'information' published to inform them was actually designed to confuse the electorate.
Add to that the fact that most British citizens have never really felt part of Europe - we have kept our own currency and regarded most of the EU laws and directives with strong suspicion and sometimes with outright hostility - and I am quite surprised, to be honest, that the margin for 'leave' was as small as it was.
I understand that I am part of that demographic who was expected to vote 'leave' but I cannot help but feel that, much as people of my age would like to turn the clock back and see Britain as the great and independent nation we once (arguably) were, history and politics and economics have moved on and nothing is the same as it was in the '80s and we would have had a better chance of success staying in the EU. As I have said elsewhere, we have now chosen a situation in which few stand to gain anything and most people - not only those in the UK - will lose something.
14 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly! Times have changed, and although we all want to hang on to the old "glory days," the world operates so much differently now than it did even a few decades ago. There's no doubt that Britain enjoyed a certain level of "independence" from the EU, and the rest of the EU nations seemed to tolerate it to a certain extent, so it almost sounds like the UK had the best of both worlds while in the EU (being independent AND being a part of the EU). Many other EU nations don't have that luxury! So it's interesting to see that the UK would give up that scenario. But, like you said, the voters were ill-equipped with true facts to make an objective, non-biased decision. Well, the votes are counted and the results are in, so now the UK must lie in the bed it made! I wish your country the best of lucky from this point forward! At least you still have the United States on your side, although I don't know if that is good or bad these days! LOL
6 people like this
@scheng1 (24650)
• Singapore
24 Jun 16
I think this is the worst decision in a century for UK.
Immigration issue is a separate issue.
UK does not need to abandon all the benefits of being in EU just because the people do not like immigrants and do not want immigrants.
Now that the worst has happened, the economic situation will get so much worse off.
UK has not a single trade agreement signed with any other country, and now it has to negotiate with all other countries in the world.
Plus the PM has resigned, and likely more ministers will follow suit.
4 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
@scheng1 I was reading this morning that 450 out of the 650 members of Parliament are strong supporters of remaining in the EU, so are all those members of Parliament going to resign now? Or, are they going to make it difficult for the UK to transition out of the EU? Parliament still has to vote on all the provisions for leaving the EU. What if they decide to vote against it? Will Parliament go against the wishes of the people? Just because the people voted one way doesn't mean the government has to vote the same way! Things could get very interesting!
3 people like this
@Asylum (47893)
• Manchester, England
24 Jun 16
The financial reaction was inevitable, but unlikely to be a realistic view of the situation. Stock markets reacted badly to the decision because they are uncertain of what the future holds. Many supporters of staying spoke long and hard about the financial crisis and economic catastrophe that would result in such an outcome, plus predicted vast job losses and wage reductions. However, none of them ever qualified those claims by explaining why such a scenario would arise, which rather deflates the whole argument in my opinion.
Last year Britain paid £13 billion to the EU. We have also ended up with mass immigration from economically poorer countries which have been accepted into the EU. In return we have received legislation from Brussels and very little support. Britain has often been overruled by the EU on matters such as border control or government expenditure. I find it hard to visualise how leaving can be catastrophic for the UK.
6 people like this
@Asylum (47893)
• Manchester, England
24 Jun 16
@Mike197602 I fully agree and we can bid for whatever we want without being told to some degree what to import.
7 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@Asylum The EU needs the UK more than they probably like to admit, so Britain is going to have a lot of bargaining power when it comes to trade agreements and commerce. People fail to realize that the UK has one of the top economies in the world, and are still considered by many to not only be an economic powerhouse, but a super power as well. The EU would be stupid not to cozy up to the UK and create favorable trade agreements.
5 people like this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
It will not be anywhere near as bad as people say.
I'm fed up of the negativity.
Talk about these trade tariffs...we buy way more from the EU than they buy from us.
Does anyone really think they want to lose our business?
We need their business but they need ours too.
6 people like this
@LadyDuck (457858)
• Switzerland
24 Jun 16
For many European country Europe seems "a necessary evil". Most of the Europeans are unhappy, but their governments decide to shut up and stay. British Government had the nerve to ask to their people what they want. Now let's see if others will follow. Switzerland is not part of the EU.
5 people like this
@LadyDuck (457858)
• Switzerland
25 Jun 16
@moffittjc Switzerland is a wealthy country, people are happy to be independent. Switzerland has signed treaties with Europe for the free circulation of people and the goods, but the Swiss Government is independent and all decisions have not to be approved by the European Parliament.
4 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
Wow Anna, I never knew that Switzerland wasn't part of the EU! Thanks for enlightening me! Was there a major reason why the Swiss never wanted to join the EU?
2 people like this
@garymarsh6 (23393)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
Well the deed has been done. There has been some despicable outright lying going on by all sides. David Camoron has lied through his back teeth along with George Osbourne threatening to punish the public if the out vote wins by ordering an emergency budget. The scare mongering tactics have been quite disgraceful and wheeling out all kinds of people to support the remain side including getting Obama to make yet another threatening speech to the British public.
People who dared say they wanted to Brexit had been branded as xenophobic and there has been a lot of petty nastiness going on. Everyone has a right to an opinion on this very important issue.
Either way the result is that the UK has now voted and it seems that other countries in the EU are also demanding a referendum in their own countries too for example Holland now would like one and there are thoughts coming out of France and Italy too.
I think we should let the dust settle and the fuss die down then grasp this new opportunity to trade throughout the world instead of being restricted as we currently are.
Over 30 million people voted in the referendum I have never ever had to queue before to cast a vote in an election so this was surprising for a start. One and a quarter million more people is not an insignificant number over the remain vote. However I do think that there has been a lot of misinformation.
6 people like this
@garymarsh6 (23393)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
@Mike197602 The initial programme of nations was probably a good thing but the expansion is just too much. None of the countries were on an equal footing. Greece was propped up as were Spain and Portugal. It is not fair that other nations had to support them financially which eventually would cripple them.
I agree the deed is done now it has to be about US so from now on it is onwards and upwards!
6 people like this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
Totally agree.
Cameron threatening people with that budget was a dirty tactic.
There has been dirty play all round but I, for one, am glad about the result.
People need to stop being so negative.
The result has been decided now it's up to all of us to go forward with positivity.
As you correctly say, there are a lot of people in other EU countries that want out too.
That says to me something is very very wrong with the EU.
5 people like this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
@garymarsh6 I agree.
As I've said somewhere else, if the nations in the EU had comparable economies I'd maybe be more supportive of the institution.
When poorer countries join I can't see any benefit whatsoever for us...just the opposite as we hand out money to fix their issues.
As it used to be if our government did an amazing job running the economy we'd have to accept loads of migrants coming from less well run countries.
I can't see how you can successfully run a country with no control over who lives here.
6 people like this
@destry (2572)
• Kirkwall, Scotland
24 Jun 16
I voted out - Many people who also voted out are largely peeved with the government and feel that Britain is no longer Great Britain due to OTT bureaucracy.
I really hope that Scotland does not vote to remain in Europe and out of the UK as we have just brought a house in Scotland, we may need to sell it and buy some where that is not governed by Brussels!
6 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
I've always felt like the UK--although a part of the EU--still kept its distance and still maintained a tremendous sense of individualism not seen in other EU nations. In the back of my mind, it always seemed to me that UK was AND wasn't part of the EU, meaning that although technically a member, they still did many things their own way. Most other EU nations are too intricacy tied to the EU, and so votes in their countries on whether or not to leave the EU would have far greater consequences. Just my opinion anyway!
Although I supported UK remaining in the EU, I definitely can see your side of the argument as well. My opinion was based more on how the outcome of the vote is going to affect the intricately-linked global economy, and not necessarily on what was best for the UK. Regardless, the vote is final and the decision has been made. Let's just hope from this point forward that the transition out of the EU is peaceful and cordial.
4 people like this
@JudyEv (325584)
• Rockingham, Australia
24 Jun 16
It has been big news in Australia too. It seems no-one is too sure about the outcome of this momentous move. They are saying it is a decisive win but really it's not much more than 50/50. There are a lot of people who voted to stay in the EU.
6 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@JudyEv What you described in your own country is exactly the same scenario we are facing in the US. Exactly the same. You could have interchanged your upper and lower house of parliament with our house of representatives and senate, and you would never be able to tell the difference in what you described. Very interesting that our two countries are experiencing the exact same thing in our politics at the moment. Personally, I don't think what is going on in politics is good for the long-term health of our countries. It just means we are all going to continue to be divided nations who can't get anything done at the governmental level. But it seems to be a sign of the times, and it seems to be spreading to the governments of many other countries as well.
2 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
That's the hardest part of when you have a vote that is this close...truthfully, when the vote is so close you cannot say it was a "mandate of the people." Half the people wanted to stay, half wanted to leave. Now, the UK is a divided nation, so can we expect some turmoil the next couple of years as the supporters of the EU do everything they can to block or slow down the exit from the EU?
5 people like this
@JudyEv (325584)
• Rockingham, Australia
25 Jun 16
@moffittjc Our Australian elections are like that. One party or a coalition win but only by a small majority which means half the people wanted the other party. Then our bills have to pass both Houses of Parliament (Upper and Lower). If the Lower House is controlled by the opposition (and it is at the moment) they can stop anything from being passed which makes it very difficult for the ruling party to get anything done. It's a pretty hopeless situation. And we have elections every four years. The ruling party isn't game to make too-controversial laws in case they get voted out. If they were in power a bit longer, the people would forget an unpopular decision or it might prove to have been a really good idea.
1 person likes this
@Marcyaz (35316)
• United States
25 Jun 16
@moffittjc
I don't understand the whole process and what it is all about but I hope this turns out alright for everyone in the UK.
2 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@Marcyaz I think in the end everything will work out fine, as long as different factions and those with opposing views don't resort to violence. Hopefully, everyone will respect the democratic process that took place with the vote.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
There's probably so much more complicated issues that went into this vote than most of us Americans understand! I've heard bits and pieces from friends on both sides of the vote, and they all make valid points and arguments. At the end of the day, the outcome is what it is, and now Britain needs to pull together and figure out how they are going to define their future. I just hope cooler heads prevail, and that disagreeing factions don't turn to violence or killing just because they don't like the outcome of the vote.
1 person likes this
@ronc510 (479)
• Philippines
25 Jun 16
You're buying too much from the mainstream media. The people in Britain just want to give a finger to the ruling elitist. I have a relatives living in the UK and they voted exit because they are afraid of what's happening to Europe with all that shady migrants. the rich don't understand it because they own cars and live in a posh neighborhood
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
True, I have been reading many media accounts of what is going on over there, but I'm not "buying it" wholeheartedly. I always regard what the media reports with guarded suspicion. Even the media likes to manipulate the facts to suit their interests! I'm just trying to look at everything from all angles. And yes, I definitely am seeing that the British want to give the finger to the ruling elitists!
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
24 Jun 16
I think it was brilliant. My husband is a Brit, and so we were very interested in the outcome. It is never a good idea to tie yourself to a sinking ship, the only hope is to cut loose. Of course, there is a shockwave, but that will die down. Once the threats are passed and the economic rocking and rolling smooths out, the UK will be the better for it.
3 people like this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
25 Jun 16
@moffittjc Even more brilliant is the fact that the EU is totally falling apart. Five more countries have stated their interest in leaving. The UK is just ahead of the curve. One global governing body down, one more to go. Time for a referendum in the US on the UN - the organization that chastises us on human rights but puts countries like Iran on its human rights council. It needs to go.
2 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
The UK has always had that sense of independence, even when a part of the EU, so people really shouldn't be so shocked at the outcome of the vote. Europe will be just fine after this, the UK should be just fine after this, and eventually life in Europe will return to normal. But the difference will be that the UK gets to call all its own shots now, and not have to bow down to Brussels.
2 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@Rollo1 The UN is a completely different beast all of its own. I agree that they should be next to go! We could fill myLot with days and months of posts on that subject! But one step at a time! First, the EU. Then we can focus next on the UN! lol
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
Well there's no doubt that Canada and the United States will continue to stand by and support the UK, so I think ultimately they will be okay, I'm just worried more about them being torn apart from the inside, as I'm sure Scotland is going to become an issue again. Scotland wants to remain aligned with the EU.
2 people like this
@ElizabethWallace (12074)
• United States
25 Jun 16
I understand the desire to control one's own fate, but I don't think this vote will result in that outcome. The events and situations that made people want to leave, will not change because they do.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
Is that really any different than when we hold our own presidential elections, and a different party's candidate is overwhelmingly voted into office on the promise that things will change for the better? I'm thinking back to when Obama was first elected, and everyone thought that life would immediately get better. It didn't, although some could argue that things improved Now, Trump is running on that very same "fever," that somehow if we elect him everything will immediately get better.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
26 Jun 16
@ElizabethWallace Although I've never been a fan of Obama, there's no question he's had his hands tied with Congress. I didn't realize how bad it was until he started his second term. Absolute gridlock in Washington, since neither of the two parties can seem to get along, nor do they want to compromise on anything. No matter who is elected this November, I fear it will be more of the same.
1 person likes this
@ElizabethWallace (12074)
• United States
26 Jun 16
@moffittjc I didn't believe that things would change automatically when Obama was elected. I thought it would take time, but when the leader of the GOP in the Senate said they would not agree to anything he wanted, and would not compromise, I knew we were doomed. I'm glad he has been able to get some things done through executive action. He has used this feature less than most presidents, but the GOP make it seem like he is doing things that are against the law. That is far from the truth.
The reason I did not vote for Bernie, is that I didn't want to have such high hopes, like before. Because then the disappointment would also be great. I hope people think before they vote for the down ticket politicians.
1 person likes this
@Poppylicious (11133)
•
24 Jun 16
I think it's wise to remember that only 51.9% of eligible voters voted for leaving, and only 72% of the electorate voted. It's way too close.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
24 Jun 16
It was the highest turnout - 71.8% - in a UK-wide vote since the 1992 general election and it far exceeded the turnout for the 1975 referendum on British membership of the then European Economic Community (64.6% of eligible voters). That a little more than a quarter of eligible voters decided not to vote doesn't surprise me. The information provided was such a mish-mash of speculation and confusion that many people would have thought "Why bother?" or "I dunno!" or "Does it really make a difference?".
It was certainly a very close result but it was quite enough to make it clear to Cameron that he should stand down, even though the government is not technically bound to ratify the results of the referendum.
I see an almost certain re-opening of moves to divorce Scotland from the UK and I wonder whether Northern Ireland would want either to join with them or even move to become part of Eire, since there have always been strong Scottish ties as well as ties to the South. Either way, I'm very much afraid that unrest in Northern Ireland is a strong possibility. Perhaps @xFiacre and our other NI member @pgntwo will have more to say about that.
I also see several countries - Sweden and the Netherlands and maybe France - reconsidering their membership as well.
2 people like this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
Loads of people in the US resent how much the Federal Government interferes with state business.
At least the Federal Government is elected by US people.
I can't imagine how US people would feel if their laws were essentially made by unelected people from Mexico, Brazil or Argentina.
I didn't mind the trade deals with the EU.
What I hated was that the ECHR overuled our own courts.
I also think we should have the right to control our own borders.
Is Americas immigration policy dictated by foreign unelected officials?
Imagine if it was, would you like that?
3 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
Well said Mike! Yes, Americans would never tolerate foreign entities dictating our lives. Hell, just like you said, we don't even like when our own federal government tries to mess with state business! So yes, many Americans can totally relate and empathize with what the UK has gone through. And despite the crap spewing out of Obama's mouth about the consequences of voting to leave, American has and will remain a staunch ally and supporter of the UK. We're with you brother!
2 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@Mike197602 I'm sure we'll continue a good relationship with your country, so I wouldn't worry too much about that! Just don't send us all your immigrants if you kick them out of your country! We are having our own issues with immigration! Send them back to the EU! lol
1 person likes this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
25 Jun 16
@moffittjc Thanks
Hopefully the US will give us a favourable trade deal
I'm getting less sure that this brexit will go ahead...I've a funny feeling there is more to come yet.
Hopefully the US will give us a favourable trade deal
I'm getting less sure that this brexit will go ahead...I've a funny feeling there is more to come yet.1 person likes this
@JohnRoberts (109857)
• Los Angeles, California
24 Jun 16
Somehow I think the sun will still rise and the planet will not collapse over this. Britain has survived on its own for centuries and after a rough patch, will again. The world is marching closer to a one world order and most Brits said no to being dictated to by people in Brussels. If the UK falls apart as predicted then the socialist side will have proven their point and this vote will be a good thing for their cause on the long run. But if the opposite happens and the UK rises again, that sends terror to socialists and that's why they are in media panic mode today.
4 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
Well said John! Britain will go through some bumps in the road, but they will survive and find a way to emerge stronger. They've had to do that extensively time and time again throughout their history. Life will go on. There may be annoyances along the way, but it's not like civil war or WWIII is going to break out over this. People just need to relax and let the dust settle from the vote, and then cooler heads can prevail and they can then chart their new destiny.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
@Mike197602 I think everything that's being said right now about commerce and trade is just a knee-jerk reaction to the vote. Many Europeans are understandably upset over the outcome of the vote, so they're reacting out of anger, but once everyone has time to calm down and relax a little bit, they will see that they still need Britain as a trading partner. Life will go on, but there may be a few bumps in the road along the way.
2 people like this
@Mike197602 (15487)
• United Kingdom
24 Jun 16
My opinion is we will do well on our own.
The trade stuff annoys me as it's all negative as in people won't want to buy our goods.
What people forget is we import way more from the EU than we export.
If they deal nastily with us with regard to tariffs we can slap tariffs on their exports to us.
4 people like this
@scheng1 (24650)
• Singapore
24 Jun 16
I am very surprised as well.
I cannot imagine that the people there are voting to leave.
They probably do not know that this will result in as much work as a country declaring independent.
UK has to negotiate all the treaties with the countries in EU, and many other countries.
All the trade treaties that EU signed with other countries will now exclude UK.
I think the shipping companies and the importers and exporters are in a mess now.
They do not know whether the other countries will slap import or export tax now.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
24 Jun 16
I was thinking the same thing! UK businesses are going to suffer more, because they are going to face higher taxes, trade tariffs, trade barriers, and levies on their goods and services. The EU is not happy that the UK voted to leave, and I think there will be consequences to the decision. I also fear a rise in nationalism among EU countries that may be reminiscent to the years leading up to the start of WWII. I'm not saying Europe is going to go to war, but it may fuel resentment and hatred among nations. Let's hope that as time goes on, cooler heads prevail and that everything works out peacefully.
5 people like this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
That's true! Anything is possible. Building walls isn't really going to solve anything though, but it makes for good speeches!
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
27 Jun 16
I guess only time will tell at this point. But we do know that in the short-term is going to cause a lot of headaches in the global financial markets.
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
8 Jul 16
The plunge in the market was due to the financial markets overreacting to news that was contrary to what they thought! It was sort of like an emotional reaction to bad news. But after a few days, things calmed down and the markets have started to rebound.
1 person likes this
@Dena91 (15861)
• United States
24 Jun 16
It was a close vote. I understand them wanting their freedom, not being tied to how others want to run their country, telling them how many immigrants they have to let into their country for example. I've never understood why nations would want to be clumped together rather than being independent. But like you, I never lived there and I don't understand a lot of their daily living, how it works for them. It will be interesting to see who would become their next Prime Minister in the days ahead. Have a blessed day
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (118421)
• Gainesville, Florida
25 Jun 16
It seems the favorite candidate at this point to be the next Prime Minister is Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London.
1 person likes this
