What Do These Scriptures Mean to You?
By Alice Henry
July 29, 2016 12:04pm CST
I realize that there are persons of many different religions on myLot and you may not have any opinion about scriptures from the Bible, but for those of you who do read the Bible, I would be interested in what you think? At John 8:17, 18 Jesus, speaking to the Jews, says: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of TWO men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, Almighty God, must be two distinct persons for how else could there truly be TWO witnesses? Jesus also said at John 7:16-18 “What I teach is NOT mine, but belongs to HIM that sent me. If anyone desires to do HIS will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory, but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.” When the mother of two of Jesus’ disciples asked that her sons sit on the right and one on the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom, Jesus said, “As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are NOT MINE to grant, they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my FATHER.” Had Jesus been the Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But, Jesus could not give them for they were God’s to give. Jesus “LEARNED obedience from the things he suffered (Hebrews 5:8) Can we imagine that God had to learn anything? No, but Jesus did, for he did not know everything that God knew. He had to LEARN something that God NEVER needs to learn – obedience. God NEVER has to obey anyone. The apostle Paul said that Christ entered “heaven itself, so that he could appear in the actual presence of God on our behalf.” (Hebrews 9:24) If you appear in the actual presence of someone else, how can you be that person? God is described as being seated on his heavenly throne and Jesus has to APPROACH God to take a scroll from God’s right hand. This shows that even in heaven, Jesus and God are two different persons. (Revelation 4:8 and 5:7) These are only a FEW of the many scriptures that show that Jesus is not God. And the one scripture that says it all for me is Acts 2:24 which says: “God resurrected him (Jesus) by loosing the pangs of death…” Yes, the Bible says that Jesus died for our sins. Think about it. If Jesus was truly dead, he could NOT have resurrected himself. On the other hand, if he was not really dead, his “pretended” death would NOT have paid the ransom price for Adam’s sin. But, Jesus DID die and was unconscious in the tomb. God resurrected him. Habakkuk 1:12 says “O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.” God cannot die, but Jesus died.
3 people like this
• United States
30 Jul 16
@IreneVincent Absolutely, it just takes a little reasoning on these verses to understand the futileness of the Trinity.... I have a log with topics and the scriptures and illustrations that go with them, like the Trinity/Conversation Stoppers. I will add these verses and others to my field service log. My husband and I will be so happy when we can attend our Regional Convention in the last week of August. Our campaign with invitations has started and we're so excited :D
30 Jul 16
Jesus is the son of God. Thus, He is a different entity. The reason why Jesus and God are called "one" is because Jesus (the son) represents God (the father), which, as far as I've read, is a thing that Hebrews used to do. Like associating Isaac (Abraham's son) with the people of Israel, which is as many as the stars in the sky.
• United States
30 Jul 16
Yes, being "one" means that they are in union with each other, that they AGREE on all things. Jesus even prayed at John 17:21-23 that "the men" God gave to Jesus as disciples, would be "one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us." This entire prayer from verse 1 to verse 26 should be read carefully so as to understand this "union" that Jesus had with his Father and that his disciples had with Jesus.
21 Sep 16
Those are all very interesting verses, which do seem to show that Jesus seems to act as a separate being to what God is, I think. What did Jesus mean when he said that "I and the father are one", and yet in in his body on the Earth, he was separated from him, and talked about God as having sent him, and witnessing for him, and Jesus seemed to pray to God as a separate figure too? John chapter 10, verse 30: "I and the Father are one." The oneness of life is perhaps the oneness of love. When we love fully, we also become one with God, and with all of his creation, as well, and yet oneness allows for separate existences to exist too. Jesus, when a part of life, was separated from the creator of that life, by his then being a part of that life itself too. Life is a sort of outpouring of substance, made separately whole from God's imagination somehow, giving concreteness to itself, and then setting itself free as itself somehow too, when it also loves and so rejoins itself to God. That's the paradoxical nature of love being both one and separately operating at the same time in separated instances of life. God is love. Is there a fourth aspect to the trinity too then? Love.
21 Sep 16
@IreneVincent Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." This was Jesus talking, and it certainly implies I think that there are at least three aspects of something, call it collectively God, or whatever, that he is referring to here. These three aspects are mentioned many times in the New Testament. Some bright spark just named it the Trinity at some time or another I guess, to coin a phrase for these three persons, or aspects, or whatever they are. Maybe Heaven has a hierarchy of rulers up there, and these three are the top echelon of that order. The term "God" then refers to the top man in Heaven, but as on Earth, we have kids here, God also has a son in Heaven, and God also has a soul or spirit, even as Jesus had these too. God has form then described by this trinity idea, (some type of a form). Perhaps the unformed aspect of God comes together in this inscription of him (a trinity, a triple Godhead), but he is more than all of this too. God is the energy behind all else funnelled forever through his person so to speak, even as the scientists say that it all started from the one point, which we can call God, I suppose.