Archeology and Jerusalem : where was the City of David ? (2)

@topffer (42156)
France
December 17, 2017 6:57am CST
In 2011, the Professor Israel Finkelstein and two other members of the Tel Aviv University, Ido Koch and Oded Lipschits, hypothesized in an article that I link, that the first city was not in Silwam and suggested another emplacement. They have many arguments against Silwam, the strongest one for me is that «there is no parallel to a town built on the lower slope of a ridge, dominated by higher grounds immediately outside its walls.» Anybody can understand that a town built like this cannot be defended, and nobody would have done it in a period like the Bronze Age where wars were common. Yup, walls are more efficient at the top of a hill/mount than in a plain surrounded by high hills. They «suggest that the Middle Bronze city was located on the supposed mound under today’s Temple Mount» (...) «the city of this period could have stretched over a bigger area, emprising both the Temple Mount and the north-center sector of the City of David». However, this scenario offers several difficulties : the city would be the largest known for this period (why not ?), not a fortification has been found yet (more embarrassing), and «Middle Bronze finds are absent from the north of the City of David». This one is a critical flaw if you ask me, but what we are looking for when it comes to king David is Iron Age I/IIA. Briefly, the Late Bronze City was on the mound under Temple’s Mount, and an ephemeral presence is attested in the City of David. During Iron I and Iron IIA(here we are) the activity intensified near the spring but «the main settlement, which was probably fortified by a massive wall (...[during IA IIA]) was still located on the Temple Mount.» Jumping to the conclusions : «The original mound of Jerusalem (...) was boxed in under the Herodian platform in the late first century B.C.E. This theoretical mound could have covered a significant area of ca. 5 hectares (...). It was probably fortified in the Middle Bronze Age, and again in the late Iron IIA in parallel to the fortifications of important towns in the countryside of Judah(...).» As you see, this is only an hypothesis involving a lot of supposition, and every early remain on this mound has been destroyed by the levelling done for the Herodian platform during the 1st C BC. Anyways, it would be impossible to excavate on this place for a good reason : the Temple Mount has another name for the Muslims, it is the Haram esh-Sharif, and it hosts several mosques and minarets. So, to respond to the question : «Where was the City of David ?», if we follow Professor Finkelstein, it was under what is today the third holiest site in Sunni Islam, after Mecca and Al Madina. Spicy, isn’t it ?
There are two solutions for the “problem with Jerusalem”—the fact that archaeology does not supply enough data for several periods in the second and first millennia B.C.E. which are well documented by textual material. According to the first, the
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6 responses
@YrNemo (20261)
17 Dec 17
Any comment so far from Muslim archaeologists re: this hypothesis? It could be just another ruse to convince the removal and destroying of those mosques and minarets? One could always say, 'oops, I was wrong!' afterwards!
3 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
17 Dec 17
There would be nothing to find, as everything has been levelled 2000 years ago in this area. It is just an hypothesis, but a valuable one, as the first city could not be anywhere else than on the top of a hill, like any other city of this period;
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@Madshadi (8849)
• Brussels, Belgium
17 Dec 17
@topffer I’m sure if there was a city there some remains would be possible to find. Even if you level a whole city to the ground you can still find something there.
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@YrNemo (20261)
17 Dec 17
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@Madshadi (8849)
• Brussels, Belgium
17 Dec 17
When Muslims conquered the city in 7 A.D there was nothing standing there. No sign of a temple or a city either. Muslim ruler then, Umar, was very careful not to use other’s holy sites. When he was invited to pray at the Church of Holy Sepulchre he refused so his followers wouldn’t confuse it as a place for Muslim worship. So it would be very unlikely that he would order the building of a mosque on that cite considered holy to Jews. And another interesting fact is that Jews who lived there at the time did not object to building a mosque on what is considered today to be a Jewish holy site. I haven’t read Finkelstein’s hypothesis in details but maybe it offers an explanation. Digging under the site for academic purpose without harming the existing structures should be okay I suppose.
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@topffer (42156)
• France
17 Dec 17
@Madshadi The temple was located in another place of the Herodian platform. The platform is very large. I read that Omar cleaned the platform which was full of rubbish and authorized the Jews to come to pray. No, it is the last article. I would like to add a point of view from Muslim archeologists like it was suggested by another responder, but I find quite nothing, maybe because I do not read Arabic. It will be for later if something good is published in a language that I can read.
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@Madshadi (8849)
• Brussels, Belgium
17 Dec 17
@topffer I don't think that he authorised Jews to pray there. He ordered a mosque to be built. Not sure about Muslim archaeologists, but Muslim scholars I read about deny the existence of the temple. Not sure what their stance is on the existence of the city of David though.
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@Madshadi (8849)
• Brussels, Belgium
17 Dec 17
@topffer thanks for the correction (not sure why my auto-correction changed it into 7 A.D). Okay so the Mosque was built on the city ruins but not necessarily on the Tmple. That clears it up. But the Temple must have been somewhere near then, according to that hypothesis. Will there be more parts of this?
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@much2say (53959)
• Los Angeles, California
23 Dec 17
What a puzzle ! Thinking in simple terms, I would think throughout history, people have conquered and reconquered - and there must be layers upon layers of civilizations to sift through - some obliterated perhaps like after a leveling. I do think one does have to step out of religion and politics and be completely unbiased in order to find the truest answers possible - but that's the thing, does anyone actually find the true answers (although hypothetically, they just might come real close!).
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@much2say (53959)
• Los Angeles, California
26 Dec 17
@topffer Seriously, nothing is simple there ! Always conflicts and it's never ending. Oh gosh, I know there are all these articles and such out there about Trump being the Apocalypse God. I hate to say there have been a few who have come to our door to pass out pamphlets and wanting to chat about why these things are happening in our world today - I really don't want to hear it as I know what they're going to say .
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@much2say (53959)
• Los Angeles, California
28 Dec 17
@topffer Ah, so that's why they come in 2s! That's funny you got them to drink - after getting drunk did their views remain the same ? My father in law would often invite them in for a serious discussion - he had the time. I think I've gotten on some list . . . the Japan-Japanese ones keep coming around these days - but I tell them I do not understand a lick of Japanese .
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@topffer (42156)
• France
29 Dec 17
@much2say I was expecting them to ring at a few more doors when they left, but they took the way out. If the apocalypse was for the day after, it was too late to convert somebody anyways.
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@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
17 Dec 17
I'm not very knowledgeable about this subject but I like the way you wrote it. Yes archaeology needs an hypothesis and not an easy study. It would be easy if someone could hold up a pebble and say ah ha i found it.
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@topffer (42156)
• France
17 Dec 17
There is a significant luck factor in many archeological discoveries, but it is better when you know where you have a better chance to find what you are looking for. This article is very well written, by some of the best specialists in Israel, and it offers the advantage to not try to mix archeology and religion.
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@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
17 Dec 17
@topffer still they sometimes baffle me findings are sometimes so very little being it was so very long ago.
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@jstory07 (134460)
• Roseburg, Oregon
18 Dec 17
Will we ever know for sure.
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@topffer (42156)
• France
18 Dec 17
The hypothesis is good, but we will never be 100% sure, because the area has been levelled.
@just4him (306196)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
18 Dec 17
Very interesting, and makes sense why you can't dig on those sites to verify the site as the City of David.
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@topffer (42156)
• France
18 Dec 17
Technically it would be possible, the platform is very large, but a levelling has been done 2000 years ago and the results would be thin, although structures like wells and deep pits can still be found.
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