Counter productive help

@vandana7 (67680)
India
January 13, 2018 3:54am CST
Did you realize sometimes help is needed, and at times, it is not, or more correctly a different type of help is needed? I will cite an example. Jobs from the US and UK were outsourced. We Indians have improved financially. You would think that with more jobs out here, terrorism would come down and people would become more law abiding. You would be wrong. You see, these jobs have made certain sections of the society rich. In the process, other people have started seeking remuneration on par with those employed by multinationals. In a country like India, that has increased the rich and poor divide, because our cost of living is very low compared to that in the US or many other countries in the world. The government employees have also got decent pay scales as have bank employees, and it includes their post retirement salaries. In the process, government is left with no monies to either recruit new personnel as are needed for law enforcement, nor create jobs. What happens without job? Back to square one. Either you give us jobs, or we will join some terrorist, human trafficker, drug tracker outfit kind of subtle threat. Richer sections would now be sending their children abroad, for jobs, usurping more jobs in foreign countries. How did this form of help really help the developed nations? Temporary reduction in production costs? Now, if there was some way to stipulate, tell the countries to which jobs are to be outsourced, please bring down your population to this level and let there be steady reduction of population for the next 10 years for you to be eligible for cornering those jobs. The process might have been better and beneficial. Note that I have not covered the deterioration of law and order in the country because of cultural shock. So do you think when you help?
8 people like this
6 responses
@Morleyhunt (21007)
• Canada
13 Jan
How does becoming a terrorist equal raising ones economic status. Reducing the birth rate in North America has brought on its own problems. When the majority of the population is elderly...who looks after them? Who pays for it...
4 people like this
@DaddyEvil (25922)
• Aurora, Missouri
13 Jan
Exactly, Morley! That is what the kids of today are complaining about here, or at least part of it. (They are also saying that (I hate to include myself in the Baby Boomer generation because we weren't included while I was still in school, but now that the younger generations want to blame all the world's evils on the older generations, suddenly my birth year is included, too!) the Baby Boomers sucked up all the good jobs and money so left the younger generations with no jobs or money! I say B*llSh*t to that!
3 people like this
@Mshafeeq (1553)
• Bangalore, India
13 Jan
@DaddyEvil I agree with you it is really pathetic.
2 people like this
@DaddyEvil (25922)
• Aurora, Missouri
13 Jan
@Mshafeeq I don't mind taking responsibility for the things I have done wrong, but when big business is to blame for those things, why do people decide to blame everyone in my generation, indiscriminately? Does that make any sense to you?
3 people like this
@LadyDuck (176700)
• Switzerland
13 Jan
@Morleyhunt is so right. In Europe most countries have now a serious problem because there are not enough new births and the population is aging.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
13 Jan
I felt 2 babies would be replacement number...no more. How many care givers do we need? In any event, India never experienced baby boomer syndrome. We did not have army leaving the country and returning during the world war ii. We were under British rule.
3 people like this
@LadyDuck (176700)
• Switzerland
13 Jan
@vandana7 2 Babies is now the "average" in Europe and it seems is no more enough. It's not at all a matter of care givers. I see you do not understand at all the problem. Those who works are taxed to pay the salary to those who are retired 1 to 1 of course would leave the working guy without money, you can count at least 3 to 1.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
13 Jan
@LadyDuck In our population, hardly anybody is paying taxes!!! :( I am paying taxes, dad is paying. Dad is 83. My maid is not paying. Even though she and her family are having monthly income equal to 1/3rd mine, because it gets distributed among so many members. Like that there are many many people, who as family have income that is taxable, but they don't pay taxes, while those who do not have large families and still need that money pay taxes. Effectively, smaller families are paying taxes in this country.
4 people like this
@topffer (36115)
• Svalbard And Jan Mayen
13 Jan
I do not understand a word to this reasoning. So, if I have no job, I shall have no other choice than to become a terrorist or a human trafficker ? It reminds me a young gipsy that I recruited long ago. One morning I found him explaining learnedly to 2 other employees that "you cannot live without stealing". Instead of sending your talented people to US or UK you should better use them locally to become a full developed country...
3 people like this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
13 Jan
Aw...you all are from different culture so you do not understand this reasoning. lol. You all come with laws and less social obligations. Imagine a grown up boy, a postgraduate. He applies for jobs, and does not get a job. At home, the financial situation starts deteriorating because father is retiring, and has health issues, so also mother. There are constant remarks from father you should find a job, you are good for nothing. (This happens out here Top, ask Indians). There is enough stress of unemployment. He might end up with other unemployed people, learn to gamble, drink, go for bank heist, or might get recruited into terrorist outfits, just to get that money in home, and stopping that nagging. There is no social security system. Or may be there is emergency such as sister's marriage, and there is urgent need to get that dowry. Sometimes, sister's are asked monies even after marriage. Those factors do lead to unemployed taking wrong routes.
3 people like this
@topffer (36115)
• Svalbard And Jan Mayen
13 Jan
@vandana7 You should write novels, you would become the Victor Hugo of India.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
13 Jan
@topffer Aw..come on...I am first hand witness to such stuff. :(
2 people like this
@DaddyEvil (25922)
• Aurora, Missouri
13 Jan
Hmmm... yeah, I don't think I would be a very good terrorist, vanny... Let me think on this for a minute, please... If I went into human trafficking, would the money be worth it? I mean, I'd have to hire someone to kidnap the young women for me, have to pay them to haul them to an airport or waiting ship to take them from this country... Oh, I'd have to pay passage for them since I am sure the young ladies won't agree to pay their own passage overseas... SMH! To me, that just wouldn't be worth the time or trouble! *sigh* I guess I will just keep working at Wally World. It's a steady job and does pay enough to take care of the bills, most of the time.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
13 Jan
Hey you have an employment in your "Wally World". I am speaking of folks who are unable to land in steady jobs, or even part time jobs. About 20 years ago, car drivers were in great demand. With the arrival of Uber and Ola, they are no longer needed most of the time. This has rendered many of them unemployed and naturally they are resenting because the amount they are getting is not much. It is pretty much demand and supply situation for jobs such as that.
2 people like this
@DaddyEvil (25922)
• Aurora, Missouri
15 Jan
@vandana7 We don't have that type of situation here, though. Most people here own their own cars and don't hire drivers, anyway. Since Uber came about, there has been only a small amount of people who trust it enough to use it. (Here, the Uber drivers make false claims that they can't find the passenger's house or that the passenger was not there to be picked up. Those are the biggest complaints against Uber at this time. The Uber driver sits home and makes these false claims and still forces the passenger to pay their fees.) Fewer and fewer of us call for Uber drivers (Most of those drivers were already employed part-time at other jobs, so not getting passengers doesn't really affect them.)
1 person likes this
• India
16 Jan
@vandana7 Uber and Ola are not driven by bots Mostly the person whom I knew as (not my) family drivers switched to these companies. Mostly, as the ones from lower classes. Don't know about those who I don't consider as lower class.
2 people like this
@hora_fugit (5435)
• India
16 Jan
I am replying just to have my own box here. First of all, I didn't think they had an intention to 'help those poor people from the third world countries' when they offered the job. Cost-effectiveness was the real drive. I agree completely with the need for population control. That said, we are many siblings and I'm kind of happy that my mother is not left alone even when most of us have moved to far places. She even has choice where to visit next... Reflecting back, seems there were a lot of hardships in family which I didn't deem as such... being just a small kid. Those are family matters, so I would not divulge here. Okay... I have no job. Parents nag me, more do the relatives. (I was surprised to know parents in developed countries don't nag their 'good-for-nothing' offspring! In our country it would mostly be a son, but for them it should have been a daughter too, no?) So someone offers me money - no, they don't do that. They offer to help your family financially while you rot away with them - in exchange of services to their ideologies. I agree, soon being transformed to the ideology warrior myself. That sounds like making of a terrorist. Other scenario - more prevalent, in my opinion - is I do nothing, idle around, gamble, drink and what-not. Still I am aware of dire situations and get stung by oh-so-helpful nagging of the parents (again, relatives sneering about your unemployment might be more of a middle-class phenomenon). Result: I start resenting parents, eventually everybody, except for some comrades. Those who earn by (invisible to my eyes) hard labor become looters and vile people for me. I'd rather make them submit to the 'poor mass' and divide wealth equally (am I not fantastic!). So here I am, a naxalite. I don't know.... youth are a raw force. Either channel them to useful work, or be ready for explosions. I don't resent them, I don't like them. The ones I do resent are the middle-aged 'youth' who know nothing better than to corrupt young minds and teach them the ways of blaming others and fleece the gullible to have your own cozy life. Somewhere it turned into a rant.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
16 Jan
You described it very beautifully kiddo. With perfect shades of sarcasm. I don't think government are likely to let jobs move out of the country unless somebody convinces them that third world is likely to explode in the fashion described by you. The ripples could be felt and that prevention might help. Prevention entailed offering them jobs in their world so that they did not come to our world.
1 person likes this
@Srbageldog (8244)
• United States
14 Jan
I have read through the comments and I understand what you are saying. There is an overpopulation crisis in your country, with not enough jobs available. Unemployment inevitably leads to crime, as people will always find a way to try to survive. It is the same here in the U.S. in poverty stricken areas (which, for example, is one reason why so many African American men wind up incarcerated; they have few job opportunities due to the way they system is set up against them, so they often resort to committing crimes to provide for their families.) I am not sure what the solution for India (or Pakistan) is, other than encouraging birth control (but would religious people be opposed to it?) Or possibly passing laws like China has (which may later result in another type of crisis if only male children are favored and girls wind up being abandoned or murdered.) Change definitely needs to happen, but in order to do so, the mindset of the people needs to change. That will take time, and education (which it sounds like not everyone has access to.) Outsourcing jobs has hurt our country too, as many jobs were lost and now it is very difficult to find good, reliable employment. Many people, even with a college education, wind up unemployed or working part time for minimum wage, which you cannot live off of in this country. At least we have a welfare system set up by our government to help low income individuals. I don't know what the solution is that will benefit everyone. How do you change the mindsets of people stuck in their ways? If the U.S. quit outsourcing jobs to India, would that force your government to create more jobs based in your own country, or to set up a system to help the people? If the government put a limit on how many children each family can have, would the people listen? Even in the U.S., Indian immigrants often have large families, and stick to their traditions. It is hard to implement change if people oppose to it. I think if enough people in your country become frustrated or angry enough over how things are, perhaps then a change will start to occur. But that might take time. It is too bad that other nations cannot help by funding schools so at least all children would have access to an education. Then, in another generation or so, you might begin to see a different mindset developing. But it sounds like your government is corrupt, if they are not using the funds they are already given to help the people at all. So I am not sure how our countries could "force" your government to help it's people, even if it was as simple as building more schools and offering free educations to all children. Unless there was strict monitoring of where the funds were allocated... I agree with the myLotter who suggested you write novels about these issues. Many people aren't aware of the issues that your country faces. If nothing else, you could help bring awareness to the issue. Sometimes it takes the arts, (such as writing) to spark change. (But then you are already trying to spread awareness with your writings here!)
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (67680)
• India
23 Jan
Thank you for reading through all that we have written here. I believe that rationalization with people is the key. We are not asking people to stop having kids. We are telling them hey, there are no jobs for them when they grow up, jobs are not like fruits that grow on trees. That every child needs so much room for sleeping and other natural functions and creates so much of sewer stuff and so much of pollution and needs so many clothes, and creates so much of waste. Tell us how such things are to be provided for if population does not slow down. We are not targeting any religion. We are not targeting any caste or custom. We are targeting intellect. If you are intelligent and can legally make a grade to the level that you do not seek help from the government in any way, go ahead have more kids. But if you are not sure how things will pan out, stick to 2 kids norm, and let us all progress as a nation with every home having enough. As of now, muslims in the country can have more wives so they can have more kids. That annoys Hindus who feel that the ratio of muslims in the country is increasing. Muslims claim their religion does not allow them to follow the family planning systems. Some muslims realize the problem, while others continue with older traditions. Hindus do it out of vengeance to increase the numbers for having that safety in numbers logic. I would have government mandating that every entertainment channel dedicated one hour in the evening to rationalizing with people programs. I would expect the west to refuse outsourcing to India unless the Indian government bites the bullet and appeals to its population that enough is enough, we cannot manage offering medical, food, jobs to so many unless there is stagnation. It should offer lucrative incentives to people having fewer kids instead of giving homes to people having more kids. Disincentives will also work. Like no government or bank jobs for families that have more than 2 children. West can impose conditions like saying let us see your population coming down by 5 percent every year otherwise we take back our jobs. We are not here to create jobs for you while our folks starve. Talk in plain language. Politicians address every issue except those that need to be addressed. West can also stipulate that safety concerns for women are more in India, so laws and law and order needs to be revamped, otherwise jobs will not come to this country. Finally, only jobs that cannot be done within the US should be outsourced. Why not have old age homes and retirement homes for people in countries outside the US? There would be some supervision some technologies used for all that, which can be done by citizens of your country. But for the rest of the services, local people can be used. These are not productive jobs, and can be outsourced on temporary basis. It makes retirement and medicare cheaper for the Americans. But for that law and order needs to be improved in countries like ours. So it needs to start with stipulating conditions and long term view rather than myopic view. Topffer even said that west cannot impose conditions. I am inclined to disagree with that. If they an force us to accept laws relating to juveniles, why can't they ask us to improve the overall situation on women's safety, and discrimination laws? I am glad about the immigration restrictions that Trump has come up with. He makes sense to me.
1 person likes this