Brexit means Big mess.

@topffer (34184)
France
March 2, 2018 3:51pm CST
I was thinking that «Brexit means Brexit» was meaning that the respect of the will that UK citizens expressed freely during a referendum was something sacred. However I have now a doubt. Let me explain it. On March 3rd 2011 the Welsh had a referendum : «Do you want the Assembly now to be able to make laws on all matters in the 20 subject areas it has powers for?» 63.49% of them responded «Yes». Scots voted also to have devolved powers in 1997, and 60.4% voted «Yes». Now UK wants to take back some of these devolved powers in the context of the Brexit. Why somebody who told «Brexit means Brexit» a year ago is now questioning the results of two local referendums ? Why the Brexit, so beneficial to UK if you listen to the Brexiters, would practically start by Wales and Scotland losing a part of their devolved powers ? A constitutional clash may happen between Edinburgh, Cardiff and Westminster. The Scots seem to be decided to vote an emergency bill to keep their powers, and they voted a continuity bill on Feb 27th. The Welsh may do the same. These bills will have to be challenged by UK at the supreme court. It might take months. However the meter is running, and this question is supposed to be solved next month in order for the UK Parliament to vote a bill on the withdrawal of UK from the EU. Brexit means Big mess.
19 people like this
16 responses
@MALUSE (40335)
• Germany
2 Mar
I can imagine that many pro-Brexit voters have already regretted their decision.
4 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
I heard some wise comments from a previous tory British PM earlier this week, John Major. The link was posted by @pgntwo I post it again for you.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major is asked why Theresa May and the government are not being straight with the British people on Brexit? Subscribe to us an...
3 people like this
@MALUSE (40335)
• Germany
2 Mar
@topffer Thank you.
3 people like this
• United Kingdom
2 Mar
@topffer I preferred him on Spitting Image.
2 people like this
@pgntwo (21659)
• Derry, Northern Ireland
2 Mar
Brexit has done neither side any favours - the lies, the hatred, the unsubstantiated claims and subsequent misunderstandings... if politicians were liable for the words they spout, most of the UK government would be locked-up in prison. The press have enjoyed adding their special sauce into the mix, I really do not understand who reads any British newspaper or believes the national state broadcaster any more.
4 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
I read a few British newspapers to write this discussion. It is true that the media are adding their sauce, including the BBC. I believe that politicians should be liable for what they promise. I think it is the case in Germany at the municipal level.
2 people like this
@pgntwo (21659)
• Derry, Northern Ireland
2 Mar
@topffer It is causing immense tension everywhere - something has to give, and soon.
2 people like this
@EddieHands (37845)
• United States
2 Mar
Brexit is great! they are smart.. why would they want to be controled by an Evil world gov"? And pay them anything? I hope the UK gains their freedom.. I hopoe the EU falls.. World government must fail. in order for humans to be live in freedom for years to come Thank you
3 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
For the moment the next one I see falling is Theresa May.
2 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
2 Mar
@topffer Do you think so? She seems to be very confident with what and how she is doing everything whatever that is. The News never explains in depth what is going on so all I ever see is her shaking hands with Mr. Rajoy who has other plans up his sleeve as well. All to do with a certain part of Spain so I won´t say anymore about that one. Then there is a British Politician whom I don´t know who he is and seems to know all about Puig Puig and his rights oh dear me.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
@lovinangelsinstead21 The majority she has at the Parliament is very weak. If the Labor next month votes with the dissident Tories wanting to stay in the common market, she will have nothing else to do than to resign. Puig Puig has the right to defend himself during his trial, like any other citizen, I wonder why he avoids this trial?
2 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
2 Mar
I cannot give a real opinion as I have not lived there for so long but if it means that Scotland and Wales will lose part of their power then I don´t think that is very fair to the Welsh people or the Scottish and the Irish of Northern Ireland either. When I hear it on the News here I really don´t have a clue what is going on exactly because all she does is to smile and that´s it smile and smile again but without getting down to the nitty gritty of the whole problem which is being caused. A lot of people are leaving Spain every day to go back to England but I wonder if they are going to be affected also and in which way and do they know what might or could happen?
3 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
I read about her last speech. She seems to believe that the Brexit can be a "à la carte" menu for UK. It will never be the case. For Ireland, she agreed last December with the EU on the necessety to keep the borders opened between the two parts, and she has changed her mind now. If it continues UK will explode. The best she could do would be to resign. Retired people from UK have a hard time to live in the EU actually because of the fall of the pound which makes basic things like food more expensive than it was 2 years ago for them.
3 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
2 Mar
@topffer Its hard enough for me too and I can understand the problems they are having as the Spanish laws are changing and everyone is going to have to adjust to them as well. Like I said I see her smiling all over her face but feel she is totally out of touch with the real problem like its not to do with her you know. I wish she would say something that makes sense to me not that I am bothered by all of it much she cannot own my life and never will. I am no more an expatriot than anyone else my heart belongs to where I was born but it also belongs here hard to explain really. Just a little rant.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
@lovinangelsinstead21 It was not a rant. You have "the best of two worlds" : married with a Spanish you will never have a problem to stay in the EU, as an English you will always be welcomed in the UK. English couples living in Spain may have more doubts about their future in the EU, like EU citizens in UK.
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (157855)
• Switzerland
3 Mar
This is why Italian decided not to let people vote. Staying has disadvantages, going out is a big mess, not to mention the costs involved.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
In this specific case there is no cost involved. The Tories are taking advantage of the Brexit to grab for UK some powers previously given to Wales and Scotland. A bit weird as a large part of the speech on the Brexit was to get their sovereignty back.
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (157855)
• Switzerland
3 Mar
@topffer In this case I know, in the case of Italy it would have been a very different matter.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
@LadyDuck It would end by the North part of Italy splitting like Scotland may split from UK.
2 people like this
@much2say (39275)
• United States
3 Mar
It seems that those who were all for Brexit perhaps did not think things through enough - the mentality of making a rash decision for fast results rather than seeing how it could cause a chain reaction of undesirable results. Though completely different, this voting mentality reminds me a lot of what happened with our presidential voting - rash!
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
5 Mar
I have not seen first this response. I just wrote a long comment, I did something wrong and it disappeared before I posted it. To sum up quickly, Brexit and the election of Trump were very similar. Brexiters incited to xenophobic, racial and religious hatred. As they are not in the Schengen area, there is quite no illegal immigration in Britain, the immigration comes from the EU. Many British are also living in the EU (for example there are 200000 French in UK and 300000 Brits in France), so it was plain stupidity. I was giving several examples, I stop now before my comment is tempted to disappear again.
2 people like this
@much2say (39275)
• United States
13 Mar
@topffer Argh! I hate that when comments disappear like that . . . I don't know what key I touched to do that . I was just trying to read online more about the details of Brexit - eek - there is too much of a mess to sort out and will it actually all be sorted out. I do not know about this Theresa May, how does one be against it - and then for it, as she says that was what the people wanted. But do the people want it now . Here there are some regrets, but the rest are still gungho on their support for this jerk .
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
15 Mar
@much2say UK was blocking a lot of important decisions for the EU, not a lot of people are regretting UK in the rest of the EU, but Mrs May believes that she will be able to pick the cherry on the cake and eat it without eating the cake. It shall not happen. Anyways, I wish them good luck for the future.
2 people like this
@Susan2015 (20607)
• United States
11 Mar
It sure does seem like it's going to be a big mess. Some now are changing their minds on it.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
12 Mar
It was a stupid move for many reasons, but understandable somewhere because people in Britain did not saw the good part of the EU that we enjoy in continental Europe : same money, no border control inside the Schengen area...
2 people like this
• United States
12 Mar
@topffer To a certain extent that is good but then consider the damage caused by having not defined, protected boarders. A a certain individual autonomy is needed to protect the citizens from being abused by the centralized power of the EU.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
13 Mar
@Berniezeitler You have 52 states and no border control inside USA, it is exactly the same for the Schengen area, the controls are made at the external borders of the area. The Schengen area has been created by a treaty and was opened to countries associated to the EU. At the time of the signature UK is the only member that refused to join. Any important decision inside the EU has to be agreed by all states, and cannot be voted at the majority. For example, if UK was wanting to join again, 27 states would have to agree. The "centralized power" applies only the policy decided by the states for the domains they delegate to the EU.
1 person likes this
@Orson_Kart (4353)
• United Kingdom
2 Mar
I agree that it's turning into a big mess. The biggest issue now seems to be the Irish border. I've no idea how they can resolve that.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
2 Mar
Theresa May agreed with the EU in December that the best would be to have no border control like today, and now she is against because it would break the integrity of the UK. Well, yes and no, many places have special statutes and it does not break anything, for example Ceuta and Melilla, which are Spanish cities in Morocco where the Moroccans can go without an EU visa, and their inhabitants can go to Morocco without a visa. I am quite sure that something like this can be done with a light border control.
2 people like this
• United Kingdom
3 Mar
@topffer I agree she seems to have changed her mind. Easiest solution is for Ireland to join us and also come out of the EU. There, sorted.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
@Orson_Kart This is not likely to happen.
1 person likes this
@LilyBeBack (2016)
• United Kingdom
4 Mar
Brexit has always meant big mess (and other, much more sweary, things that I can't say here) and all I can say is I'm saddened and disappointed by the whole thing.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
5 Mar
I remember to have read some of your comments about Brexit. We share the same opinion. Brexit was first a big mistake, it is turning to a big mess.
2 people like this
• United Kingdom
6 Mar
@topffer Exactly right, and the people who voted for it call it the will of the people but it was only the will of a tiny majority, and many of them now say that they regret their decision. Some didn't even realise that they were voting to actually leave, they thought it was just an opinion poll I 100% believe that if we had a second referendum, a huge majority would vote to remain.
2 people like this
@thelme55 (14574)
• Germany
20 Mar
Yes, it is a big mess. I thought before that they can have their Brexit and that's it. I didn't know that this decision would make a mess. Maybe many voters have regretted their votes for Brexit.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
21 Mar
It is also my feeling that many people are regretting their vote and would like to vote again.
2 people like this
@DianneN (78466)
• United States
4 Mar
Exactly! Simply put, some people are ignorant and don't think things through to see the big picture.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
5 Mar
All people who voted for the Brexit were not ignorant. A lot of lies were made during the Brexit campaign, and they understood it too lately.
2 people like this
@JudyEv (123432)
• Bunbury, Australia
3 Mar
I think 'big mess' is about the best term for it. Ireland must be dreading it too as there seems no way Northern Ireland can stop an influx of immigrants without setting up new border patrols.
2 people like this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
It can be a light border control for Irish. It exists in Ceuta and Melilla, 2 Spanish cities surrounded by Morocco : the Moroccans have the right to go there without an EU visa and the inhabitants of the cities can go to Morocco. There is a light border control, and the main controls are done in the ports and airports to block illegal immigration to the EU. However if Irish do not want any border control, Northern Ireland will have to stay in the EU or Ireland will have to join UK, although the last one does not seem likely to happen.
1 person likes this
• China
3 Mar
I don't know much about the ins and outs of Brexit.It seems that there is a long way to go for them to achieve their goal.
1 person likes this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
The negotiations with the EU are bogged down because they do not know what they want, or more exactly they would like a menu "à la carte" which is impossible : if they want to stay in the common market they have to follow its rules, including the freedom of circulation of people. In this case, while they said that the Brexit was to get back their sovereignty, UK takes advantage of it to remove a part of the sovereignty given previously to Scotland and Wales. It is not cricket.
1 person likes this
• China
4 Mar
@topffer In a word,politics is the concentrated expression of economics.
1 person likes this
@topffer (34184)
• France
4 Mar
@changjiangzhibin89 In a perfect world, yes. But if all politicians were economists the Brexit would have never happen;
1 person likes this
@kepweng (15159)
• Waikoloa, Hawaii
29 Mar
i wonder who is Richer country british or france??
1 person likes this
@topffer (34184)
• France
29 Mar
In terms of GDP they are close. Actually it is France... since the Brexit.
@YrNemo (12662)
3 Mar
I plan to follow this post of yours to read others' thoughts on this issue. From what I understand, everything seems to be clear-cut re: Brexit, they want to get out and will do so. (Many UK people don't like it, but the die has been cast I heard.)
1 person likes this
@topffer (34184)
• France
3 Mar
It is not done yet. If the Labor votes with some Tories dissidents next month to stay in the customs union and the common market like they have announced it, nothing will change practically in the UK, except that UK will have to follow EU rules without having deputies at the EU Parliament and no right of vote on EU decisions. I would call that a complete Brexit fail.
1 person likes this
@quantum2020 (9261)
• Ciudad De Mexico, Mexico
21 Mar
One good advantage must be behind exiting the EU. Lots of troubles but in the end, I think it´s good that a government remains sovereign