Brexit means Big mess.
By topffer
@topffer (42156)
France
March 2, 2018 3:51pm CST
I was thinking that «Brexit means Brexit» was meaning that the respect of the will that UK citizens expressed freely during a referendum was something sacred. However I have now a doubt. Let me explain it.
On March 3rd 2011 the Welsh had a referendum : «Do you want the Assembly now to be able to make laws on all matters in the 20 subject areas it has powers for?»
63.49% of them responded «Yes». Scots voted also to have devolved powers in 1997, and 60.4% voted «Yes». Now UK wants to take back some of these devolved powers in the context of the Brexit. Why somebody who told «Brexit means Brexit» a year ago is now questioning the results of two local referendums ? Why the Brexit, so beneficial to UK if you listen to the Brexiters, would practically start by Wales and Scotland losing a part of their devolved powers ?
A constitutional clash may happen between Edinburgh, Cardiff and Westminster. The Scots seem to be decided to vote an emergency bill to keep their powers, and they voted a continuity bill on Feb 27th. The Welsh may do the same. These bills will have to be challenged by UK at the supreme court. It might take months. However the meter is running, and this question is supposed to be solved next month in order for the UK Parliament to vote a bill on the withdrawal of UK from the EU.
Brexit means Big mess.
16 people like this
13 responses
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Mar 18
I heard some wise comments from a previous tory British PM earlier this week, John Major. The link was posted by @pgntwo I post it again for you.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major is asked why Theresa May and the government are not being straight with the British people on Brexit? Subscribe to us an...
3 people like this
@Orson_Kart (6108)
• United Kingdom
2 Mar 18
@topffer I preferred him on Spitting Image.
2 people like this
@pgntwo (22408)
• Derry, Northern Ireland
2 Mar 18
Brexit has done neither side any favours - the lies, the hatred, the unsubstantiated claims and subsequent misunderstandings... if politicians were liable for the words they spout, most of the UK government would be locked-up in prison. The press have enjoyed adding their special sauce into the mix, I really do not understand who reads any British newspaper or believes the national state broadcaster any more.
4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Mar 18
I read a few British newspapers to write this discussion
. It is true that the media are adding their sauce, including the BBC. I believe that politicians should be liable for what they promise. I think it is the case in Germany at the municipal level.
. It is true that the media are adding their sauce, including the BBC. I believe that politicians should be liable for what they promise. I think it is the case in Germany at the municipal level.2 people like this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
2 Mar 18
I cannot give a real opinion as I have not lived there for so long but if it means that Scotland and Wales will lose part of their power then I don´t think that is very fair to the Welsh people or the Scottish and the Irish of Northern Ireland either.
When I hear it on the News here I really don´t have a clue what is going on exactly because all she does is to smile and that´s it smile and smile again but without getting down to the nitty gritty of the whole problem which is being caused.
A lot of people are leaving Spain every day to go back to England but I wonder if they are going to be affected also and in which way and do they know what might or could happen?
3 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Mar 18
I read about her last speech. She seems to believe that the Brexit can be a "à la carte" menu for UK. It will never be the case. For Ireland, she agreed last December with the EU on the necessety to keep the borders opened between the two parts, and she has changed her mind now. If it continues UK will explode. The best she could do would be to resign.
Retired people from UK have a hard time to live in the EU actually because of the fall of the pound which makes basic things like food more expensive than it was 2 years ago for them.
3 people like this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
2 Mar 18
@topffer
Its hard enough for me too and I can understand the problems they are having as the Spanish laws are changing and everyone is going to have to adjust to them as well.
Like I said I see her smiling all over her face but feel she is totally out of touch with the real problem like its not to do with her you know.
I wish she would say something that makes sense to me not that I am bothered by all of it much she cannot own my life and never will.
I am no more an expatriot than anyone else my heart belongs to where I was born but it also belongs here hard to explain really.
Just a little rant.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Mar 18
@lovinangelsinstead21 It was not a rant. You have "the best of two worlds" : married with a Spanish you will never have a problem to stay in the EU, as an English you will always be welcomed in the UK. English couples living in Spain may have more doubts about their future in the EU, like EU citizens in UK.
2 people like this
@much2say (53959)
• Los Angeles, California
3 Mar 18
It seems that those who were all for Brexit perhaps did not think things through enough - the mentality of making a rash decision for fast results rather than seeing how it could cause a chain reaction of undesirable results. Though completely different, this voting mentality reminds me a lot of what happened with our presidential voting 
- rash!
- rash!2 people like this
@much2say (53959)
• Los Angeles, California
13 Mar 18
@topffer Argh! I hate that when comments disappear like that . . . I don't know what key I touched to do that 
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I was just trying to read online more about the details of Brexit - eek - there is too much of a mess to sort out and will it actually all be sorted out. I do not know about this Theresa May, how does one be against it - and then for it, as she says that was what the people wanted. But do the people want it now . Here there are some regrets, but the rest are still gungho on their support for this jerk .
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I was just trying to read online more about the details of Brexit - eek - there is too much of a mess to sort out and will it actually all be sorted out. I do not know about this Theresa May, how does one be against it - and then for it, as she says that was what the people wanted. But do the people want it now . Here there are some regrets, but the rest are still gungho on their support for this jerk .2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
15 Mar 18
@much2say UK was blocking a lot of important decisions for the EU, not a lot of people are regretting UK in the rest of the EU, but Mrs May believes that she will be able to pick the cherry on the cake and eat it without eating the cake. It shall not happen. Anyways, I wish them good luck for the future.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
5 Mar 18
I have not seen first this response. I just wrote a long comment, I did something wrong and it disappeared before I posted it
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To sum up quickly, Brexit and the election of Trump were very similar. Brexiters incited to xenophobic, racial and religious hatred. As they are not in the Schengen area, there is quite no illegal immigration in Britain, the immigration comes from the EU. Many British are also living in the EU (for example there are 200000 French in UK and 300000 Brits in France), so it was plain stupidity. I was giving several examples, I stop now before my comment is tempted to disappear again.
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To sum up quickly, Brexit and the election of Trump were very similar. Brexiters incited to xenophobic, racial and religious hatred. As they are not in the Schengen area, there is quite no illegal immigration in Britain, the immigration comes from the EU. Many British are also living in the EU (for example there are 200000 French in UK and 300000 Brits in France), so it was plain stupidity. I was giving several examples, I stop now before my comment is tempted to disappear again.2 people like this
@Orson_Kart (6108)
• United Kingdom
2 Mar 18
I agree that it's turning into a big mess. The biggest issue now seems to be the Irish border. I've no idea how they can resolve that.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Mar 18
Theresa May agreed with the EU in December that the best would be to have no border control like today, and now she is against because it would break the integrity of the UK. Well, yes and no, many places have special statutes and it does not break anything, for example Ceuta and Melilla, which are Spanish cities in Morocco where the Moroccans can go without an EU visa, and their inhabitants can go to Morocco without a visa. I am quite sure that something like this can be done with a light border control.
2 people like this
@Orson_Kart (6108)
• United Kingdom
3 Mar 18
@topffer I agree she seems to have changed her mind.
Easiest solution is for Ireland to join us and also come out of the EU. There, sorted.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Mar 18
In this specific case there is no cost involved. The Tories are taking advantage of the Brexit to grab for UK some powers previously given to Wales and Scotland. A bit weird as a large part of the speech on the Brexit was to get their sovereignty back.
2 people like this
@changjiangzhibin89 (16533)
• China
3 Mar 18
I don't know much about the ins and outs of Brexit.It seems that there is a long way to go for them to achieve their goal.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Mar 18
The negotiations with the EU are bogged down because they do not know what they want, or more exactly they would like a menu "à la carte" which is impossible : if they want to stay in the common market they have to follow its rules, including the freedom of circulation of people. In this case, while they said that the Brexit was to get back their sovereignty, UK takes advantage of it to remove a part of the sovereignty given previously to Scotland and Wales. It is not cricket.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
4 Mar 18
@changjiangzhibin89 In a perfect world, yes. But if all politicians were economists the Brexit would have never happen;
1 person likes this
@changjiangzhibin89 (16533)
• China
4 Mar 18
@topffer In a word,politics is the concentrated expression of economics.
1 person likes this
@quantum2020 (12040)
• Ciudad De Mexico, Mexico
21 Mar 18
One good advantage must be behind exiting the EU. Lots of troubles but in the end, I think it´s good that a government remains sovereign
@LilyBeBack (1994)
• United Kingdom
4 Mar 18
Brexit has always meant big mess (and other, much more sweary, things that I can't say here) and all I can say is I'm saddened and disappointed by the whole thing.
2 people like this
@LilyBeBack (1994)
• United Kingdom
6 Mar 18
@topffer Exactly right, and the people who voted for it call it the will of the people but it was only the will of a tiny majority, and many of them now say that they regret their decision. Some didn't even realise that they were voting to actually leave, they thought it was just an opinion poll 
I 100% believe that if we had a second referendum, a huge majority would vote to remain.
I 100% believe that if we had a second referendum, a huge majority would vote to remain.2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Mar 18
It can be a light border control for Irish. It exists in Ceuta and Melilla, 2 Spanish cities surrounded by Morocco : the Moroccans have the right to go there without an EU visa and the inhabitants of the cities can go to Morocco. There is a light border control, and the main controls are done in the ports and airports to block illegal immigration to the EU. However if Irish do not want any border control, Northern Ireland will have to stay in the EU or Ireland will have to join UK, although the last one does not seem likely to happen.
.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Mar 18
It is not done yet. If the Labor votes with some Tories dissidents next month to stay in the customs union and the common market like they have announced it, nothing will change practically in the UK, except that UK will have to follow EU rules without having deputies at the EU Parliament and no right of vote on EU decisions. I would call that a complete Brexit fail.
.1 person likes this
