The (Good) Hypocrisy of Social Prayer - God's Already Answered Them
@mythociate (21437)
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
March 13, 2018 11:16am CST
In Kenneth Copeland Ministries' "Believers' Voice of Victory"-magazine, I see an article that agrees with my current 'prayer doesn't change God's plan'-philosophy.
http://magazine.kcm.org/i/917556-january-2018/3
But I feel that 'people are going to continue to believe-' (and thus 'KCM and all other preachers & pastors & Bible-study teachers will continue to preach- & teach- and reaffirm-') that "prayer is 'sending work-orders to God' 
That's what "hypocrisy" is! The common definition is 'saying things publicly that go against "what you believe privately,"' but 'the original definition' (the meaning of an ancient Greek word that's related) is "words of an actor on stage." Preachers know that if they 'announce words that don't jive with congregants beliefs,' many "sheep of that flock" will wander away and find pastures where the grass is sweeter.
(And that's why--if you read through the article--Brother Kenneth will probably 'steer your mind back into believing that "prayer changes God's plans"' ... maybe he doesn't 'write that affirmation' anywhere in the article, but he "& Gloria (his wife) and all the ministers at KCM will be prayin` `fer `ya!"
(so I'll just tell you the parts of the article that 'caught my eye.' (You can probably read the rest of it at the link, or search for "BVOV Magazine January 2018 When Faith Boils Over".))
"God has already don all He's ever going to do about meeting your needs." - "'... You mean he's not going to provide ...?' That's not what I said. I said He's already done it."
At that point in the article, Brother Copeland dives back into 'the murky fog' ("when you received the new birth ... you simply heard the gospel, believed and--through Jesus--salvation had already been provided" (emph. & dashes added))
But the point that stands out for me--and the reason it annoys me how people continue to think their prayers are 'requests for God to reply-to'--is an explanation-of-prayer we found in an adult bible-study at an 'Evangelical Covenant' church (a church which I haven't heard-about in a long time).
The explanation: 'Our prayers are more like "echoes of God's gifts."' Understand that 'God is not On Our Clock.' By that, I mean both 'God doesn't stick to our schedule or time-limits' AND 'God isn't restricted to the linear sequence of cause-&-effect or before-&-after.'
(The Bible might not support this understanding, because The Bible doesn't need the sheep to 'understand.')
That's what "hypocrisy" is! The common definition is 'saying things publicly that go against "what you believe privately,"' but 'the original definition' (the meaning of an ancient Greek word that's related) is "words of an actor on stage." Preachers know that if they 'announce words that don't jive with congregants beliefs,' many "sheep of that flock" will wander away and find pastures where the grass is sweeter.
(And that's why--if you read through the article--Brother Kenneth will probably 'steer your mind back into believing that "prayer changes God's plans"' ... maybe he doesn't 'write that affirmation' anywhere in the article, but he "& Gloria (his wife) and all the ministers at KCM will be prayin` `fer `ya!"
(so I'll just tell you the parts of the article that 'caught my eye.' (You can probably read the rest of it at the link, or search for "BVOV Magazine January 2018 When Faith Boils Over".))
"God has already don all He's ever going to do about meeting your needs." - "'... You mean he's not going to provide ...?' That's not what I said. I said He's already done it."
At that point in the article, Brother Copeland dives back into 'the murky fog' ("when you received the new birth ... you simply heard the gospel, believed and--through Jesus--salvation had already been provided" (emph. & dashes added))
But the point that stands out for me--and the reason it annoys me how people continue to think their prayers are 'requests for God to reply-to'--is an explanation-of-prayer we found in an adult bible-study at an 'Evangelical Covenant' church (a church which I haven't heard-about in a long time).
The explanation: 'Our prayers are more like "echoes of God's gifts."' Understand that 'God is not On Our Clock.' By that, I mean both 'God doesn't stick to our schedule or time-limits' AND 'God isn't restricted to the linear sequence of cause-&-effect or before-&-after.'
(The Bible might not support this understanding, because The Bible doesn't need the sheep to 'understand.')2 people like this
2 responses
@RasmaSandra (73326)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
13 Mar 18
I always stick to my faith. I say a morning prayer to start my day and say the Lord's prayer at night.
1 person likes this
@mythociate (21437)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
14 Mar 18
And the prayers are self-reminders---reminding you that God is still ... 'everything you need God to be.' They don't change 'His plan.' 
1 person likes this
@arthurchappell (45002)
• Preston, England
14 Mar 18
if christians accept that God has already decided the answers to their prayers they might as well quit praying - of course as there is no god I believe in I don't pray anyway
@mythociate (21437)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
16 Mar 18
'Some supernatural errand-slave' doesn't exist; that's why I explained that 'Our prayers are more like "echoes of God's gifts."' In other words, we pray for the gift because we know it's given.
It's sad that our simple minds have to imagine 'some gift-giving "Person"' in order to find the gift we seek ... maybe it's a verification our subconscious minds seek---like 'The Treasury-secretary's signature on our money'; I'm sure you've taken cash before without "checking to make sure that the Treasury-secretary's signature is stamped on it," but it's on there! (at least on American cash).
1 person likes this
@mythociate (21437)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
17 Mar 18
@arthurchappell "Why pray?" the same reason children are taught to ask-nicely for food & comfort from their parents (who are 'supposed to' give them those things, and who do give them, and who probably would even if the children didn't ask).
It's why Jesus refers to God as "Our Father" (in fact, I sometimes forget the being He's referring-to is 'something supernatural' ... most versions of 'the one & only prayer Lord Jesus taught us to pray' don't even call him "God" except in 'sideways references' ("Thine is the kingdom & the power & the glory" ... who else but a god could one be talking-to when one says that? 
))
Maybe you could think of it as 'a boyfriend-&-girlfriend who've been together "forever" and so one finally "asks the other to get married"'---you know the other's going to say "yes," but they weren't "engaged" until one of them 'asked.'
and "Counterfeit" ... you know why that god was 'counterfeit'? The same reason counterfeit money is counterfeit---because 'the people who give it value (by accepting it as valuable) discover that it is something different pretending to be the valued currency.'
This is why I might seem to be an atheist---because I don't believe that 'the power which makes the universe exist' is "some invisible man ('or woman!' "or woman") who's jealous-of-credit-for-all-creation." I believe in what I understand is the translation of Myo- (syllable of Nichiren Buddhism's "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"): "the Divine Voice" (which Christians might interpret as 'the will of God.')
They say God "says" many things, so one who hears 'God' needs to check that message against 'the will of God.' That's another reason-why we think of him as a Parent: because it's not their will that 'any of their children' should suffer; but when 'you are living against their will,' parents consider you "no longer a child of theirs!"
I believe in God as more of a 'universal condition of things that exist' than as "some beardy CEO living in the 11th Dimension."
))
Maybe you could think of it as 'a boyfriend-&-girlfriend who've been together "forever" and so one finally "asks the other to get married"'---you know the other's going to say "yes," but they weren't "engaged" until one of them 'asked.'
and "Counterfeit" ... you know why that god was 'counterfeit'? The same reason counterfeit money is counterfeit---because 'the people who give it value (by accepting it as valuable) discover that it is something different pretending to be the valued currency.'
This is why I might seem to be an atheist---because I don't believe that 'the power which makes the universe exist' is "some invisible man ('or woman!' "or woman") who's jealous-of-credit-for-all-creation." I believe in what I understand is the translation of Myo- (syllable of Nichiren Buddhism's "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo"): "the Divine Voice" (which Christians might interpret as 'the will of God.')
They say God "says" many things, so one who hears 'God' needs to check that message against 'the will of God.' That's another reason-why we think of him as a Parent: because it's not their will that 'any of their children' should suffer; but when 'you are living against their will,' parents consider you "no longer a child of theirs!"
I believe in God as more of a 'universal condition of things that exist' than as "some beardy CEO living in the 11th Dimension."
The Lords Prayer is perhaps the most famous prayer in all of Christianity. Also known as the Our father prayer, it has be translated into many languages.
@arthurchappell (45002)
• Preston, England
16 Mar 18
@mythociate I have fallen foul of counterfiet cash once so actually I do check mine much more often - if prayers are already answered in a predetermined way why pray? I wa in a cult too, so I even had a counterfiet God
