Can I ask those of you who write for money to give me advice?

@Jackalyn (7559)
Oxford, England
June 1, 2018 12:47am CST
Two years ago I stupidly agreed to write something for a church organisation. Like an idiot I did not draw up a contract. It was kind of "If you write this we will pay you "something." Nor was it totally clear what I was writing or how long. I began what ended up as a 200 page book which was apparently, not what was originally wanted, but all along I have sent updates and so on. I was just trusting the people I was writing for would be fair. Then I involved a co-writer. She began as my editor, but her contributions were substantial and we got a far better book. We are still revising it. This editor/co-writer pointed out that the book involved a huge amount of work and that I should be paid accordingly. I strongly feel we need to keep the copyright and that this should be published to the wider world. The church organisation still thinks the agreement, not written, was to write it for them and they should have it as "theirs." I do agree I did agree to write it for them. It just became a larger project. I wrote suggesting several options. One was that the book was published with split royalties 50 for me, 40 for the co-editor and 10 to the church organisation. I explained the number of work hours and that we were not simply producing a word document and giving it to them. By the time we are finished, we will have done a huge amount of work to make the whole thing as professional and as good as we can. I am also formatting and my sister is contributing the cover. She is a professional artist and I am thinking of giving her some of my cut although she has not asked. Morally, can I refuse to give the book to the church organisation for the song they seem to expect if for and simply say, "this was more work than expected and better than you wanted and it is unfair to want the work for a paltry sum?" I think they are probably wanting to pay about £200 for what is now over a thousand hours of work. It is the moral aspect I am struggling with seeing as I did originally agree the work was for them (verbally) and in email updates have given that impression. I thought what I was offering was a fair compromise. They could still use the book, make money from it (potentially,) and there is no reason why we cannot self-publish and give them the option to buy a number of books at a lower price. It is perfectly easy to set the price and ask them to buy before we add an ISBN and go public at a higher price. My learning curve is that even if it is for friends draw up a written contract and agree what is wanted in detail in writing. I could kick myself for not doing that. I will be sending a contract to them outlining the price in real terms, so they can see why I am not just sending the book as it is, but stuck on the moral issue. What would others do? The organisation expected something in 2 months and for lots of reasons, it has taken two years. It is a kind of manual/workbook and the research alone took a lot of time. It will be fully plagiarism checked (as any book should be,) and we have not simply grammar and spell checked a word document.
12 people like this
12 responses
@peavey (16936)
• United States
1 Jun 18
Morally, you should stick to your agreement. Did they want you to expand the book, or was it your decision? If they were the ones who kept adding requirements to it, then you should ask for a decent amount of money, but if you took it upon yourself to make it a bigger job than what they had in mind to begin with, that isn't their problem and they shouldn't have to do any more than was agreed upon and the work should be theirs. Now, if you're speaking legally, since you don't have a contract, you're free to do whatever you like with it. Don't expect a good relationship or a referral from them, though.
5 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
1 Jun 18
I am just not so sure. There was no initial sum mentioned. They knew of the expansion and I am not giving all that work away for free. It is thousands of hours and needs to be recognised. They could have said something about payment earlier. I just do not think they understand what goes into any work. I am, to be honest, not bothered what they think of me in the end. I do not need a reference from them to do what I need to do in life. However, they did verbally commission something.
2 people like this
@peavey (16936)
• United States
1 Jun 18
@Jackalyn It's a quandary, all right. You will have to let your conscience guide you.
1 person likes this
@RasmaSandra (73436)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
1 Jun 18
That is a tough situation. I think that at this time you are right to make up a contract. Otherwise, you will be doing it just for charity sake so to say and that is not right with all of the hard work you did. I wish you the very best of luck.
5 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
1 Jun 18
Thank you for your feedback. It is as you say, a tough situation.
4 people like this
@GardenGerty (157551)
• United States
1 Jun 18
Not being in a position to see the work, and not experienced in this way, my advice may be worth nothing. I would excerpt whatever part of the work would fulfill their desires, with a notice on said work that it is excerpted from the larger work which you will publish, in your name. I am not sure that even makes sense. I guess what I am saying is that for what they desire to pay, they should receive the rights to the minimum of what they originally wanted, while you and your co author and illustrator retain the rights to the entire work and you publish it. You have shared a valuable lesson with all of us here.
3 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
2 Jun 18
It does make sense and is something I am condidering. Thank you.
1 person likes this
@just4him (306220)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
1 Jun 18
Sounds like they wanted free services from you for some writing. What you've done is a book, and that, though not the agreed on item, isn't theirs, and they have no right to it, especially if there isn't any kind of contract. Your idea of self-publishing and getting an ISBN for it, and copyright as well, would be a very good idea. If they want the book, they can order the copies. You get royalties from the ordered copies. In another way, you didn't hold up your end of the verbal agreement because you didn't get it done in two months, and they probably feel you don't deserve payment because it's taken so long. I can understand that reasoning. The one thing they don't understand is how long a writing project can take. If they wanted something in two month's time, they should have given you a word count limit for the project. You took the project and made it better than what was expected, and you should get proper compensation for it. I suggest self-publishing. If you're going to split the profit, you'll need to make certain you're going to sell those books or you won't have any money to split with anybody. I recommend CreateSpace for self-publishing. Just remember to get your copyright taken care of before the final proof is accepted. Something I keep forgetting to do.
2 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
2 Jun 18
Thanks. Good advice though I prefer Lulu. I had a terrible cover via CreateSpace once. Legally it us my copyright. I did think my offer of a split royalty was fair. I also thought we could offer a lower price for them to buy the book. It is possible to do that on self publishing. If we got our own ISBN and not a free one then I don't see why we cannot publish the same book both publicly and privately. It is our copyright. They can have a version with no ISBN and sign some kind of agreement? That way the organisation wins as they do not have to pay me anything.
2 people like this
@just4him (306220)
• Green Bay, Wisconsin
2 Jun 18
@thelme55 Thank you.
@thelme55 (76476)
• Germany
1 Jun 18
I agree with you. This is a good advice @just4him.
2 people like this
@JudyEv (325758)
• Rockingham, Australia
1 Jun 18
Is there any hope of abbreviating/adjusting to something much smaller for them and going ahead with the larger work for yourselves?
4 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
1 Jun 18
I did think of that. My co editor is not as happy. She thinks the organisation is taking me for a ride. Personally, I think that is the best thing to do and it was originally my project.
4 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
1 Jun 18
@JudyEv The problem is they were so unclear at the start. A bit of a long story behind it. I did wonder if we suggested they had a number of self-published copies at cost over what they paid us and we would say we would not publish it to the wider world till they had purchased them and give them a timescale .
3 people like this
@JudyEv (325758)
• Rockingham, Australia
1 Jun 18
@Jackalyn Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I hope it all works out. Although morally you may feel bound to keep to your 'word' I doubt you should feel bound to give them more than they originally asked for.
3 people like this
@thelme55 (76476)
• Germany
1 Jun 18
I would take the advice of @just4him. You have done a lot of work and it is yours. There was no contract anyway and you have not fulfilled the 2 months time the church has given to you.
2 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
2 Jun 18
I probably will.
2 people like this
• China
1 Jun 18
The crux of the matter is that you didn't draw up a written contract.You never have thought that a lot of brainpower went into writing the book,so now you had better ask a lawyer for help.
2 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
2 Jun 18
I can't afford one. Hoping I can find a mutually ageeable way forward.
2 people like this
• Austin, Texas
8 Jun 18
LOL. You could ask those church folks nicely to back off and you take your work and go!! They clearly misled you as to what you thought you were expected to do for them. If they back off, no problem. If that doesn't work, then you better go get a lawyer. It's gonna get ugly!
1 person likes this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
11 Jun 18
No, I will not let it get ugly. As Christians, I would pray we reach a compromise.
1 person likes this
@akalinus (40440)
• United States
2 Jun 18
My best advice is to write for the audience. Think about who will read your stuff. Do they want funny anecdotes? Literary quality work? Everyday language? Spiritual, editorial, or human interest articles? Write for your reader or the magazine's readers.
1 person likes this
• Dallas, Texas
2 Jun 18
If you do not feel like you are getting a fair deal and nothing was signed and no money was accepted, like a down payment, and if you feel like they asked for a piece of the pie and you were about to give them the whole pie, you would be on the losing end of that proposition. There is nothing moral or immoral about changing your mind after so much work on your end, was done to achieve the final product. You need to voice your concerns about reasonable compensation and if an agreement is not put on the table, you should withdraw your original agreement as you have come to realize you may or may not be monetarily compensated for the true value of your final work. But do not take a cent. If you accept any payment, you will end up having to go to court over things and it could get very costly. I am not a layer and I do not get paid for what I write. If I decide to write something for monetary compensation, I will self-publish it on my own and not have anyone else co-write or proof read it. I will do it all myself if I do so and even then I have no promise of selling what I publish.
@Namelesss (3368)
• United States
1 Jun 18
I agree with @peavey and @JudyEv I was pretty much going to say the same thing. Will add that if you go that route there is a chance they won't accept it and since there is no contract although likely there is plenty of evidence that there was a verbal agreement a lawyer could get called in on either side. Judges hate these kind of cases as there is no clear agreement. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
2 people like this
@sw8sincere (5204)
• Philippines
1 Jun 18
There's only one thing i learn about this,. To never work for a company or a person without signing up a contract.
2 people like this
@Jackalyn (7559)
• Oxford, England
2 Jun 18
Yep. Lesson learned. Never do it without a contract and never, ever for friends!
2 people like this