Thoughts about God.
December 23, 2006 4:33am CST
So I've been thinking about something for awhile now and I am wondering what all you here at Mylot think. So here it is: Let's assume a few things are true at the moment. 1.) God is an Omniscient and Omnipotent being. 2.) God creates each and everyone of us. I'm assuming this is in the bible since my pastor was just reading about it last Sunday. If this is false then I guess I really don't have an argument here. Now, if those two things are true, then it must also be true that God created each one us, knowing precisely what we will become as humans and what we will do. If that is true, then there is no such thing as free will and our lives become that of predestination as I think it is the Calvinists that believe in. So in short an omniscient creator logically destroys free will. What do you think?
• United States
17 Apr 08
Wow, Loopie, you started a nicely heated debate. I would like to add my two cents, and hopefully I can do so, without flaring anyone...:) the word omniscient means all knowing, NOT all controlling. Omnipotent means all powerful, holding authority. Now, anytime I try to contemplate God, I put Him in my own little box, called Daddy. And I think of my relationship with my children. God does not belong in a box, He is far to great to be confined to our own understanding, but it does help me to get a better understanding, and then I multiply my thoughts by a thousand, and I feel confident I am at least close to accurate. Then again, this is only my personal opinion and faith. Think of your child(if you have one)after some years you get to know your child pretty well, you start to notice their habits and patterns, and reactions to certain situations and circumstances. Again, remember this is a box that you have to eventually let God out of, He knew you this well before you were ever conceived. You are somewhat knowing of your child, while God is ALL knowing. Now, your child makes some bad decisions and gets himself in a bind. Maybe he's looking at expulsion from school, or maybe he's a little older and looking at some jail time. You saw this coming, because you watched him make his mistakes. You tried to show him the error in his ways, but he ignore you. You tried to prove your love to him, but he rebelled against you. You are the parent, you could have put your foot down. Maybe nailed his windows shut, grounded him, taken the car keys away, whatever. But you didn't. Not because you didn't have the authority to do so. But because you wanted your child to grow and learn from his own experiences. So when he became an adult he would know there are natural consequences for his decisions, and not just punishment from his parents. At this point. your child cries out to you for help, he says mom dad get me out of this, please pay my fines, or talk to the principle or whatever the situation is. Would letting him off here help anything? NO it wouldn't. So you allow him to suffer his consequences. Maybe he'll learn, maybe he wont. But YOU GAVE HIM THE CHOICE to make for himself. If he gets it, you're thrilled and you have a party for him and you help him get back on his feet, and maybe even stick some money aside for a while to help him through college. If he doesn't get, your sad and hurt, but you don't give up, because your love is too great. Here see, as a parent you have the power and authority to "control" your child, but you choose not to, to allow him to become his own person. Remember again, that this is the box I put God into for understanding. Multiply that love and grace by a thousand to even get close to the amount he has for each and every one of us. Peace and God Bless!
• United States
17 Apr 08
Wow I posted this over a year ago, I did not expect to wake one day to find a boat load of ideas posted. ALOT of ranting lol. Although, I had no specific intention on this being aimed soley for me as a Christian. But more I wanted a feel of what all faiths feel on the matter. I didn't expect it to be a "what the poster is referring to debate" Calm down guys/gals. I was just intrigued to hear others points and views. With that said, please play nice. And Edgyk8inmomma sees it as I see it. Yes I do have a child he's 3. And I do want to oversee him, let him grow, let him experience life on his own. While at the same time guide him, teach him. I want him to develope into the person he wants to be. I will not hinder his growth. Thanks again to all who have posted responses.
• United States
20 Apr 08
I believe that God gave us free will in order that he be surprised. Eternity would have a lot of dullness otherwise. One Spring Sunday night, after soaking in the free hot pots in Heber Utah, I decided to attempt the back road to Park City since it would save me forty miles. At the entrance to the back road there were two snowmobile tracks leading up the hill. For 15 miles, then the tracks veered off the road and down a steep slope. I stopped and explored ahead on foot. Around the corner was a bank of snow 20 ft high. Well I turned around. On the way down, I tried to cut a corner and ended up window deep. Stuck. No hope of rescue, I prayed. Something responded with why and I said, Jesus said and was told to get back in the jeep, it was lifted back on the road. That Something said, no need for thanks, just live. My tracks caused a hugh stir. Imagine, I was stranded off a well traveled path, then miraculessly not? God loves. I believe that something was God led if not God himself however my free will is still intact. I still do dumb things.
18 Apr 08
Yup! Why not think that God is not a Prime Mover, a Divine Provident or Someone who punishes the sinners... maybe God just created the whole cosmos at its up to us what to do with our life and the world we live in... Ultimately, I think we are the Gods of our own life... though we have this priests, pastors, imams or preachers, we still follow our own faculty... each of one of us has this what we call brains... (add up the heart factor) that really decides on what we will do, with little or big effect coming from our experiences and responses to nature and other things around us... If there is really a thing called "God", why God can't unite all human being and have them follow on His own rulings? you see, there is really this staggering complexity of the cosmos, but that complexity still depends on how we see things and on the level of our knowledge about all things in our lives... to wrap it up, let's just do what we think is good for our own life and other people as well... spread tolerance... and enjoy our earthly lives!
• United States
17 Apr 08
It is interesting that you should discuss this topic as I have actually researched it in scriptures and society and discussed it often in another forum called Topix. Scripturally, it is impossible to have FREE WILL. Why? "in him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth col. 1:16" Now that scripture doesn't really say one hasn't free will. But let us put that one with many others and we start to build a complete and accurate picture. "for out of him and THROUGH him and FOR him is ALL" Pretty Clear, but there are many more...let us continue. "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDETINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS after (free will? NO)...after the counsel of his won will". eph 1:11 Now that is very clear and doesn't allow for free will in the human spirit if scripture was to be true. is that all? Of course not, there are many, many more scriptures that support each other on this matter. "God is operating ALL in ALL" I Cor. 12:6 What does it mean to "operate"? - TO CONTROL the FUNCTION!! Now that is very clear as well, no way around it. However, as I stated, we can find numerous examples throughout the bible. Not only scriptures, but stories that support the fact that according to the bible, there is no real free will. "Yet ALL is of God" II Cor. 5:18 Do we need to go on? Ok..I will be happy to provide other examles that according to scriptures, there is NO free will. "For of him, and through him, and to him are ALL Things..." " For it is God which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure" Phil. 2:13. The bible tells us that God "creates the wicked man for the evil day". Clearly if someone does something wicked, it is also of God. "yet all is of god". Remember the story of the disciples telling Jesus they would NEVER deny him? yes, the disciples basically thought they had free will. Jesus told them, you will deny me. Again, they repeated, NO we will not deny you my lord. What happened? The will of God!! They denied him. Christians state they believe in the bible and say they can choose god or seek him of their own free will. But what does the bible state? "there is NONE that seeks after God" Rom. 3:11 "You have NOT Chosen me, But I have chosen you..." John 15:16. Like I stated, the examples are endless just as the story of Jesus stating "you can do NOTHING but for Father" Jesus himself stated he could do NOTHING but for the father. If God planned all things and knows all things and created all things and approved of all things, then clearly, according to scripture, he is in complete control and if he were real, then all of us would be just robots or slaves. Doing what is already planned or "before ordained" from the beginning of time. Now, we can look outside of scripture and notice that society and parents/adults to NOT allow children to make a free will choice to follow God. A childs mind will believe in anything (santa, superman...) and yes, Gods. Imagine how easy it is to make a child believe in santa and superman. Now add the element of Rewards in heaven and torture with fire to the equation. Extremely motivating circumstances to the young mind raised from birth to believe. Now, let us look at what a leading Christian figure has stated about the youth: "Those that CONTROL what young people are taught, and what they experience - what they see, hear, think and believe - will determine the future course for the nation." James Dobson, found of Focus on the Family Now that is scary! Peace and love to all