Reason, Logic and Belief?

Thailand
February 23, 2007 8:54pm CST
These are three little words that seem to go to the heart of every discussion here. How do you define each of them? Don't give a dictionary definition, how do you see them in your heart? Maybe the real question here is how do they define you?
1 person likes this
6 responses
• United States
24 Feb 07
Reason: To observe and form ideas according to what you observe. To favor ideas based on observation and evidence and to welcome evidence that may contradict what you already believe. Logic: Thinking based purely on fact and observation and drawing conclusions based on how they fit together rationally. Belief: An idea usually thought to be true by the one who holds the idea. Some base these ideas on fact and evidence, and some accept them regardless of evidence.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18312)
24 Feb 07
Logic is the validity of the argument, the art of drawing the correct inferences from the given facts Reason consists of the ability of think logically and also to analyse and clarify concepts, including creating new conceptual frameworks and paradigms Belief is some idea, feeling or notion that we hold to be true. Strangely some beliefs we are not aware of all the time. If I walk to the door I must believe that the floor won't give way beneath me or that my legs won't fall off, though I probably wouldn't report having such a belief. These we might call background beliefs and are a conceptual framework necessary for interacting with the world. Other beliefs are more explicit, for instance I believe that species change through evolution, a belief I arrive at through reason and it is possible that I might be persuaded otherwise. all the best urban
1 person likes this
• Thailand
25 Feb 07
I am pretty much in agreement with you except in the realm of belief. Some of the things you ascribe to background belief I think are really the result of logic. Check my response to dickkell where I will go into greater detail.
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18312)
25 Feb 07
They may be a result of logic but I do not have to stop and deduce (induce, strictly speaking) that the floor will take my weight each time I just want to walk across it, rather I just assume it. all the best urban
@xParanoiax (6999)
• United States
12 Mar 07
Hmm..well logic to me is following a thought, disregarding all impossible solutions until one arrives at the one they believe or think is most likely. Reason is kinda a quasi-logic..it's just above stupidity for me. Just barely since 'reason' can be fair e destructive than ignorence at time, since reon tends to take a few facts and not reviewing something as a whole..unlike logic. Belief to me is..an opinion about something which hasn't been proved yet..and which may never be proved. How do they define me? I avoid reason whenever possible..if it finds me I combat it with logic -- which never fails. I also try to combine logic and beliefs..backing things up, and coming to the most logical conclusion for what I am to believe. Taking everything into account, researching, cross referencing, thinking..but beliefs for me, take a long time to come to, not because of the entire process which must be gone into where beliefs are concerned, but because I am slow when it comes to important decisions which will define my whole life -- unless I'm forced into rushing into a decision anyway. But that doesn't happen often. I'd like to think these things make me who I am, makes me somewhat less..asuming than many people. *shrugs*
1 person likes this
@manong05 (5029)
• Philippines
25 Feb 07
Another good posting ChiangMaiboy. Dee Mak! Dee chay thi pen pheuan kap khun, khop khun krap! ( very good, glad to be your friend, thanks) Your comment to dickkell is excellent and can not be bettered. This is also the way I understand reason, logic and belief. However, since you asked how I see them in my heart and how do they define me, I will expand a little bit on "contradiction". This is the best way that describes my life. I wish everything will fall into neat categories of black and white but it just doesn't. Some are in the gray areas. Many areas in my life are full of contradictions, both "seeming" and "valid". The valid ones are in the realm of antinomies i.e. contradictions between two apparently valid principles or inferences correctly drawn from these principles. The classic example in science is the particle-wave dualism definition of light. Logical yet contradictory. I agree that one way to have a meaningful interaction with and understanding of the universe around us is through the power of reasoning of what is perceived by our senses and reduced to logical deductions and inductions. However, I also have some beliefs which I can not classify as lies mainly because I could not find concrete and tangible proofs. I believe in them not because someone told me so but I wanted to. It answers my deep spiritual longings and makes me a much better person. Others may view them differently and makes them a better person as well.
@dickkell (403)
• United States
24 Feb 07
Logic doesn't really concern itself with the content of facts, but rather with the internal consistancy of arguements. I can prove logically that the cow jumped over the moon or any other statement that can be made. Logic does not concern itself with objective truth, rather with sequence, order, and consistancy. Translation, you can prove ANYTHING is logical if you're willing to play with the facts. Reason is the human ability to gather information and apply logic and wisdom to reach a judgement. Feeling or heart is another factor in judgement and decision making that is often overlooked. It is something like the opposite of logic. Logic can take any set of facts regardless of truthfullness and make them make sense. Heart or feeling considers truth as we know it regardless of facts. Reason is supposed to come between and put them together to make judgements, but we've changed either the term or the faculty to side reason with logic exclusive of feeling. Belief is taking a past judgement and applying it to the future, hoping that it is still true today because we know it was true yesterday. Faith is acting on a belief as though it was already past judgement. When I wake up in the dark, I believe the sun will rise today because it has risen everyday so far. I get up and make breakfast because I have faith that the sun will come up and I have to go to work when it does. I believe my legs will support my weight because they did so yesterday, and I take a step by faith in the belief that my legs still work.
@urbandekay (18312)
24 Feb 07
Well, you comment about logic is sort of right except it does not prove any statements logical. You cannot prove that it is logical that the cow jumped over the moon, only that the argument that leads to that conclusion is logical. Thus if the conclusion is false and the argument logical the premises must be false. Neither is feeling opposite from logic; it is surprising how often the two accord. That we believe the sun will rise, etc is not faith but induction. all the best urban
1 person likes this
@dickkell (403)
• United States
25 Feb 07
induction is belief - you examine what's happened in the past to determine the most likely outcome in the future. However, the only future tense we possess is belief. You believe that the future will be remarkably like the past, but you cannot know it until the event happens. Belief is the only way we interact with the future, so to speak.
• Thailand
25 Feb 07
You could not be farther off base when it comes to logic but lets start with reason. We can not live without gaining knowledge. Reason is how we perceive and integrate the information provided by our senses. The senses tell us that something is but it falls to reason to tell us what it is. What is it? This task falls to logic. Logic is the art of identifying things without contradiction. If a contradiction exists it is time to start over. A must equal A, if something in your thinking tells you that it equals B than it is time to recheck your basic premise. If you confess your error and start the process over you are on the road to knowledge. If you accept the contradiction and use it in your life you have left the realm of reality. Reality is what exists. We can only know it by employing reason, a continual process of answering the question; True or false? Belief is accepting that A equals B, because we want it to or because someone has told us it dose. This is the abandonment of reason and can lead only to living your life as a lie.
• Pakistan
24 Feb 07
Discussion - Why We Discuss anything
Yes The Question is really that How They Define us.. Well I define Them how they are used here for. Reason:- Why we are starting a discussion. The cause behind its start or even the cause behind response. Do we need help? Do we want to share something or some experience? Do we want to start some fun? Or Do we want only earn-to-be-here purpose?Logic:- The Method, the thought, the idea behind the Discussion or the respond. Some fun, problem or something. Belief:- What Purpose do you want your Response for? Do you believe on the topic and do the others Will too.