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Rami Ayyad: Christian Martyr email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion10 months ago

"Bible-store owner riddled with bullets."

That's the headline over the story of the death of the only Bible Bookstore owner in Palestine. This brave man died so that others might have the chance to read and learn and make up their own minds concerning matters of faith. He knew the risk he was taking. His life was threatened many times. Yet, he stayed in business. He was much braver and more willing to stand up for what he believed in than myself. Here is the story of his murder.

http://www.worldnetdaily....

After reading this story it occures to me that people like Rami Ayyad are true martyrs.

True martyrs are killed because of what they believe rather than killers because of what they believe.

What do you say concerning this story?

 
 
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Thomas73 (598) response was accepted on 11/16/2007.
denotes best response.
tags:  christian, martyr, martyrs, murdered
 
1. myLot reputation of 49/100. Destiny007 (3277)   ranked 2,577 out of 7,012 in religion   10 months ago

Again we hear of the religion of peace... this time warning Christians that they will be killed if they do not convert to Islam, and to show they are serious they have tortured and murdered a Christian because they think he was spreading the word of God.

I have no doubt that some apologist will comment on how we are all misunderstanding this story, and that Islam really is the religion of peace, if only we give it a chance.

Yes, he was a brave man, just as brave as all of those Christians that were fed to the lions, and all of those Christians who were killed by the communists, and every other enemy of God over the centuries.

This should be a wakeup call to all Christians in case any are still not aware of what is coming.

This also should plainly show Islam for what it really is, it isn't a religion of peace and tolerance at all.

It is an all or nothing Theocracy where any none Islamic person is subject to whatever fate the Islam believers decide.

Islam, Muslim... it's all the same, and no matter how it is dressed up, the words of the Koran or the other speeling as well are still there.

It is convert or die....



myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

You won't find me disagreeing with you. Think of the criminality of those who would shoot and torture someone for selling books! Think of the insanity of justifying the crime in the name of Allah! I think the world is starting to get the idea of what Islam is really all about.

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2. myLot reputation of 56/100. Thomas73 (598)   ranked 868 out of 7,012 in religion   10 months ago

Although I wouldn't call this man a martyr, due to the religious implications of the term, I find this story totally appalling. That a man can be killed on the mere basis of his philosophy or convictions absolutely disgusts me. Freedom of thought and freedom of expression (within reasonable limits) are values I hold most important, and the murder of this man, who was merely a book-seller, revolts the free-thinker in me.

Do those people actually realise that they're making their religion even more unpopular through performing such despicable acts?

On the other hand, I have thought about an interesting aspect of this story. The murderers where Muslim fanatics who killed a man who had a different set of beliefs, justifying the wrath of many people against this religion. But consider this: Hitler didn't cause a worldwide hatred of Christians by killing Jews with the blessing of the Pope. So why does Islam provoke such an anti-Muslim reaction?


Oh, and let me add a little disclaimer: I do not condone Islam (quite the opposite, in fact), but I like to play the devil's advocate in the hope that an interesting discussion will ensue.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

I'm thinking in the case of Hitler killing jews that Christians did not catch so much hatred because so many Christians personally denounced the killing. Additionally, were not the soldiers who liberated the concentration camps Americans, who were primarily Christian?

There is also much more effective propaganda and information circulation today. Perhaps, if the tools of today had been used against Hitler and Christians, the perception would have been different.


myLot reputation of 56/100. Thomas73 (598)   ranked 868 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

Well, it is true that not enough Muslims rise publicly against such atrocities.

Anyway, you said exactly what I expected from this discussion: "There is also much more effective propaganda and information circulation today."


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

Yes, besides the internet for quicker dispersion and circulation, I think propaganda itself is now a science, a behavioral science. I have indirect indications that what to say and how to say it, in order to deceive and manipulate has been studied pretty effectively. Just start with the marketing and advertizing literature. Then move on to Military Psych-ops. Then imagine what has not been published.


myLot reputation of 56/100. Thomas73 (598)   ranked 868 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

Indeed, propaganda has become a science since Goebbels, and still works effectively in marketing and other areas. As for the "Military Psych-ops", I perfectly know what you're talking about, as I have served in the Forces. Brainwashing can be efficient, even on the most critical thinkers.


myLot reputation of 54/100. sndcain (3090)   ranked 1,468 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

Considering how many people dislike the Catholic church and the Pope, many Christians just figured that the Pope's condoning of genocide was merely in keeping with the character of the "Wh0re of Babylon".

And if I had a dime for everytime someone brought up Hitler or the Catholic church every time someone wants to "prove" how violent Christians are, I'd be rich. But people forget; a substantial portion of the Christian world isn't Catholic and doesn't support anything the Catholic church does. There are people who believe the Catholic church is in league with Satan.


myLot reputation of 56/100. Thomas73 (598)   ranked 868 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

I was merely giving one example. The Crusades could have been another one... They are even the historical foundation of the Muslim/Christian mistrust.


myLot reputation of 54/100. sndcain (3090)   ranked 1,468 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

Well the Crusades and the Dark Ages are just another example that shows how far the Catholic church as a governing body has always been from the true tennets of Christianity.

Islam really should take a page from the history of the Catholic church. Church and government shouldn't mix.


myLot reputation of 56/100. Thomas73 (598)   ranked 868 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

"Church and government shouldn't mix."

I couldn't agree more. Thanks!:)

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3. myLot reputation of 88/100. dbmax41 (310)   ranked 194 out of 7,012 in religion   10 months ago

Brave soul. We need more people like him.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

We need more people like him, but to not be killed. This man's death was an incredible waste of a fine human being. His killers even have no idea of the atrocity they have committed.


myLot reputation of 88/100. dbmax41 (310)   ranked 194 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

They think its their life duty to kill christians.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

I've commented on this before, so I might as well do it again. The Muslims who kill Christians like this bookstore owner are criminally insane, pathologically violent individuals for whom Islam is a rationalization.

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4. myLot reputation of 90/100. MsTickle (5732)   ranked 1,072 out of 7,012 in religion   10 months ago

How do I put this? As I grew up, a Catholic girl, receiving a catholic education, I was taught that I had to be a soldier of Christ and if called upon, yes, I should be willing to die for my faith. Better that than to denounce it.
I was so confused because I was also taught that Jesus loved me and would forgive me my sins.
There is so much more but in the meantime...
I understand where this man was coming from. Personally, I believe the bible is false, having been tampered with many times over the years to suit the circumstances.
But this man believed in his bible and was willing to stand up and die for his faith.
Did he set a good example by making a target of himself? It's not for me to judge.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

I disagree with Christianity and do not believe Jesus ever even lived. Yet, I admire this man's courage in standing up for what he believed. Let me also add, I do not have that kind of courage myself. I'd have gotten my bookstore and myself out of there.

I see this man as having died just as much for freedom of speech and the right of anyone to read what they please as having died for Christianity.

 
5. myLot reputation of 54/100. sndcain (3090)   ranked 1,468 out of 7,012 in religion   10 months ago

To die in defense of one's faith makes one a martyr, so you are correct. This man was far more courageous than I could ever be I think. I wouldn't have opened a bible store in Palestine in the first place.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  10 months ago

I admire and respect excellance in all endeavors and try to call attention to it, where I see it. This was an excellant man.

 
6. myLot reputation of 17/100. UnselfishShellfish (1081)   ranked 4,102 out of 7,012 in religion   9 months ago

What a brave man. He took a stand against something that was outlawed and illega. He's a martyr. He went against the grain, did something he believed in, even though he knew it could get him shot and killed or maimed/injured.

He had to pay with his life but if one person got a Bible and had their life changed because of it, the man did not die in vain. He did what he set out to do: Help people undertand the word of God

+ to you for this very good discussion.


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  9 months ago

Well, thank you very much. I can use all the plus I can get. Twice I've even lost my star. Keep those plus comin'!

 
7. myLot reputation of 69/100. paul8675 (715)   ranked 2,350 out of 7,012 in religion   9 months ago

I find myself continually angered by the fact that thousands upon thousands of Christians are persecuted and martyred all over the world. This is just one story. The sad thing is that over 99% of stories are never made known to the world. Sometimes I just think that if we could magically wipe Islam and Communism off the face of the planet, Christians would get a much better go. Unfortunately this is no doubt a simplification. I sometimes think to myself how the most loving and beautiful people in the world can be hunted down in this way. I then find myself quoting the scriptures. "Men loved darkness more than light because their deeds were evil."


myLot reputation of 22/100. redyellowblackdog (2845)   ranked 3,591 out of 7,012 in religion  9 months ago

I'm sure it is better to hope and pray for your enemies to become compasionate and understanding than dead.


myLot reputation of 54/100. sndcain (3090)   ranked 1,468 out of 7,012 in religion  9 months ago

better, perhaps, but not easier...:)

 
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