The proof the God of Judaism, Islam and Christianity does not exist.

When parents or others tell children that if they don't do something they will go to hell that is terrorism!

You have children scared of this imaginary place they will go to after this life is over; this focuses the children s attention on death, it forces them to curtail natural emotions and feelings. Children should grow up learning to play and get along with each other without any care about when life ends or this imaginary figure keeping a record of what they do.

JIC is incorrect; there is no reason to believe any of it so employing it to thwart development and ruin the lives of citizen’s amounts to terrorism.

The most important aspect of this is that there is not a person in the higher echelons of either of these cults who is not aware of these and innumerable other errors: They come with feeble excuses for not disclosing what they know but it boils down to not wanting to lose power and prestige!

Interesting Analogy. But, when law says that if you do something you would be sent to jail, is that also terrorism? How do you maintain law and order without identifying punishments with wrong conduct?

Cheers!
Ram

There is never any excuse for wrong conduct; we are all in this together so laws and rules are extremely important.

Transgressing another’s person or property is to inexcusable and such people should be punished. Such a person already committed an act of terrorism toward another.

We are not evil or sinners hence there is no excuse for such transgressions.

Exactly my point. So if you look at laws and regulations as something that can hold back terrorism. Actually religion and customs are equally powerful tools if not more powerful to help fight against terror and wrong intentions if in the right hands. Unfortunately, any potent or powerful weapon in wrong hands is a danger be it law, be it religion, so that is where I think the problem lies.

Anyhow it has been a good discussion.

Cheers!
Ram

dear ram
It is only bcoz of the good upbringing that you have been lucky to recv and the good cultural values`that u have imbibed and your religious beliefs which have moulded your personality,that u can talk of tolerance,respect for all religions.But respect can ever be one sided affair-it cannot be one way traffic-u only get respect when you give respect.but when time comes,when there is an attact on your self-respect,you have to take up arms in your hand that is why Lord Ram attacked Lanka when the evil demon king had kidnapped his wife-Sita.Even Arjun and Pandavas took up arms against their own cousins with blessings from Sri krishna becuase they were wronged.But unfortunately now,neither there is Ram,Hanuman or Arjun and Bhimsen to fight against the evil Ravana and Kauravas-we have to do it ourself!!!Jai shri Ram!!!!

True, but just put yourselves in the boots of those who in those eras might be waiting for a savior against the Ravanas or the Kauravas... They would have no idea who it would be... Similarly, maybe there is some savior in our midst who would emerge with time...

Cheers!
Ram

Disagreement is good; if we could not have divergent opinions we could not grow by exchanging viewpoints.

The Garden of Eden tale is one of those parables I believe you mentioned. The tale in reality depicts young people carelessly playing under the protection of their parents until they are out of the innocent garden and starts their adult lives.

I can understand your analogy to the "Garden of Eden" story; makes perfect sense to me.

Thank you Chiang_Mai_boy:

I heard about the police in the Philippines finally cracking down on the Muslims who have been terrorizing the country; are things looking better yet?

I respect your opinion but the baby is dead and decomposed, time to move on.

Hi GnosisQuest,

There's a deeper reason why the Moslems here in the Philippines are being hunted down by the so called "authorities". I suggest you read more before saying that the moslems here are all terrorists.

All Muslims practice terrorism by teaching their children what they have to believe.

According to the Koran the only sure way to go directly to heaven is to die for the cause of Allah and a great many Muslims take this apparent short cut but not all.

Sadly here in Thailand, we seem to be having trouble forming any kind of working government at the moment. The situation here is somewhat better, but the threat remains.

While you are speaking chiefly of the Judaic, Islamic and Christian religions, I am speaking more of religion, generically. I am currently involved in some personal research as to the origins of the human species. With the new information provided by the Human Genome Project it's now possible to fill in some of the blanks that archaeology has left open. One thing that seems certain is that when the ancestor population left Africa they carried with them some form of religion. It seems to have been a trait that was selected by evolution. Why it was selected is a subject of some controversy. All I am really saying is that before we discard religion we really need to have a better understanding of why we have it in the first place.

Religion was created by man to praise his God/Creator

efc872 what religion are you speaking of and where did you get your information? The origins of religion are lost in the fog of time. We can only guess as to when it started and we have no idea yet as to why it started.

I am aware of the constant threat: It seems that Islam when infiltrating a country attempt to be sweet, clamoring for equal rights and freedom of religion. Once they exceed a certain percentage of the population they begin intimidation and protests soon followed by terrorist activities against the population.

When my son lived in Norway he was often accosted by Muslim youths who would go out at night and pick fights with the young people coming from a dance or party. Muslims would also force their way on young women and when cot excuse themselves with females being scantily clad trying to say this had something to do with the morals of the females. Muhammad who had seen his daughter in law bare could not contain himself and took her away to make her his wife: Such lack of control and submission to one’s more primitive urges may lie behind today’s barbaric responses of Muslim youth.

Biology is indeed an interesting subject but there are other aspects which I find warrants research: Have you read: The Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton?

The Islam Has its own denominations as well. I am a teacher of two Moslem students and there are no any act of aggressions to the non-moslems. Their parents even promote peace with other religions.

Dear Jaypeemanual
U r right when u say that not all muslims are terrorists-also here in India,not all muslims are terrorists,BUT all terrorists who have recently carried out bomd attacks in various cities of India are all muslims-PLz dnt ask me for the proof-an islamic terrorist group called Indian Mujahideen,a reincarnation of banned Students Islamic Movement of India(SIMI) has publicily accepted responsibilty for those dastardly acts in the name of "jehad".they have threatened to carry out more such attacks in India-so what shud I do?isn't it time for the silent majority of the country to take up arms against these anti-social elements??

I agree with you jaypeemanuel. I find muslims in the Philippines to be peaceful (well, not all, but hey all religions have evil people in them) and caring individuals.

The way Gnosisquest promotes his piece is like the Devil offering apple to Eve.

Thank you as always for your input and I respect and appreciate your opinion.
It is necessary to attack religious ignorance from all angles.

A better explanation for the longevity is the moon God: Abraham came from Ur, a seat to the worship of the Moon God. Take the ages of these long lived people and divide their age by twelve and you see immediately how their age was counted.

I'd like to add that I'd rather create awareness-positive awareness rather than run down something (as I have done in another discussion of yours) to bring about the change. Force only succeeds in hardening stances or creating mostly unreliable converts to your own line of thinking and reasoning.

I do not see discussing facts as applying force. I have no agenda and no doctrine to disseminate I would simply like for people to be able to think on their own.

dear tarachand
I have not read Puranas,neither Upanishads,so my knowledge regarding this is very poor-but my father is expert in these and he sometimes gives me some advice based on these sacred texts-it is not to propogate a particular principle or belief-my father never imposed anything upon me-but strived to make me a good human being, not only spiritually,but also mentally and physically.Yes there may have been instances in the past where Upanishads and Puranas`may have been misinterpreted or used for own selfish gains-but these elements have not flourished bcoz the main emphasis of these sacred text is on Spiritual development of a person and a person who is greedy or prejudiced can never succeed in attaining spiritual supremacy.But then just like modern science,even these sacred text have certain shortcomings like all we human have-even when it comes to highly advanced science like Medical science or Engineering(my wife is a doctor and I am an Marine engineer)-adopting a parochial attitude only leads to failure- so we have to adopt a more broad minded approach.Along with Puranas,Upanishads reading Bhagvad Gita and Ramayana, Mahabharata is very important or else we shall be weak on physical front,even though spiritually we may be very strong-that will make it impossible to lead a life practically.For example if we adopt gandhi's policy(he was spiritually very much superior,probably bcoz he followed only Upanishads and Bhagvad Gita but Ignored Ramayana and Mahabharata)-and allow these terrorists to strike( in name of Jehad or Christian missionaries from committing their conversion activities)on our cheeks, ours Dooms day is certain-but what about our future generation?will they not blame us for not protecting their interest.

amirev777, I have read the Mahabharata, the Ramayana and for quite some time had made it a point to read at least one Canto of the Bhagvat Gita early in the morning after a bath.

I have now given up reading it regularly. In my response, I have not said anything that is negative about the Purans, the Vedas, Indian scriptures, just repeated what has already been mentioned by a number of major Indian newspapers and magazines.

Which other country or religion would permit such a thing? Imagine the fate of an Islamic publication that writes even one thing that is even perceived by Muslims as against their religion or prophets. Forget Islamic, just depiction of Mohammed in an European newspaper created world news and cerated quite a furore some time aqgo

And yes, I have read condensed english versions of the 19 (some limit this number to 18) major puranas as well as a number of minor puranas. I also have read the Bhagwat Puran (In English - Gorkahpur press, in two volumes).

I have also read the Bibles' (old and New) as well as the Koran _Shia as well as Suni versions.

So generally, when I decry all religions, I speak after having rad what the translators have been trying to tell me.

You are actually not saying anything; you are promoting the Ten Commandments as if they were an end all. The Ten Commandments are from Babylonian lore and there was not a Babylonian state which did not have the same or similar commandments. The Ten Commandments fall far short of what is required when it comes to morals and ethics and people believing they are an end all fall far short from understanding the ramifications of what an unethical existence will do to people.

The nonsense about only the Bible having the record is just a feeble excuse promoted by the theocracy it is completely without foundation.

When it comes to tying people to chairs I always suspect the Christians as they are self proclaimed sinners; others have no excuse for transgressions!

I have read Islam which is one reason I have to say what I do!

Read the Koran chronologically and you will see what I mean. Muhammad employed fantasy and Judaic/Christian legends which he twisted to create a promise for his soldiers which became a fantasy world. Do you really think a God is shallow enough to promise soldiers all those women if they follow a leader? Do you think that if a God looked for a prophet he would not be able to find a better candidate than an illiterate highway robber who practiced bigamy and pedophilia? Saying that Muhammad was the best a real God could do is an insult to human intelligence how do you think a God would feel?

you haven't answer any of my quitions yet!!
could you prove plz any of what you are saying?!
trying to proof your imaginary thoughts without any real or logic evidence give no sence!
and another thing that whom who think that there is no god i think he has a bare head!...no one can deny even if he is not a muslim that there is only one god that controls the whole matter...you yourself is controled by god...so denying this fact is a misrable!
and from your words you seem not to know a word about islam....if you want to know more or correct information about islam contact me and i will message you with good links may be that will change your mind a bit:)

What have I not answered?

The argument you come with is only opinion you yourself have not provided any evidence for your argument and if you come with the statement that a supernatural being exist it is you who owe me evidence.

For evidence regarding my statements you could read D. B. Redford; “Egypt, Canaan and Israel in ancient times”. Redford is a university professor in history, the book was written in 1993 and even though it has been repeatedly attacked historians and theologians employ it for reference. You should probably also read “The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible” by Abegg, Flynt and Ulrich.

In regards to Muhammad the proof he was only a con-man comes from his own words. One blatant lie is regards the Rabbi known as Abdullah who allegedly converted to Islam after hearing Muhammad’s answer to the three portents is outrageous. Here it is for those who desire a laugh: “When Abdullah bin Salama heard of the arrival of the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) at Medina, he came to him and said: "I am asking you about three things which nobody knows but a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle?" Allah’s Apostle (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." . . . "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be extra-lobe of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man is with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that Abdullah bin Salam said: "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah”.

There is no evidence the Bible/Koran is correct and you have no evidence it is; if you have some it is not presented. If it is only your opinion which says for example Abraham lived that is fine. Opinion is not proof any more here than it is for a gambler that feels lucky.

The best way to safeguard is to tech; tech children the truths and never demand they believe one way or the other. Tell them what some people believe and give them the alternative to make up their own minds. When children express doubt always tell the complete truth for there is no evidence any of the above religions are true and children have a right to know this!

I use the same sources as the religious colleges and universities which is why I know that what I say is the truth.

The current Bibles are all translated from material which is barely a thousand years old. The NT is translated from material which is about 1500 years old. The only authentic material comes from the Dead Sea Caves and it does not confirm the Bible or the Koran. The Koran was written several generations after Muhammad and no one knows how much material was deleted or added to it.

There is no material from the time of Jesus which confirms him and the mess of the Old Testament was most assuredly composed during the period of the Greeks in order to try and prove to the Greeks that Judaism was an ancient culture so they could keep their old traditions.

The scrolls from the Dead Sea Caves are considered authentic but unreliable. According to experts, these were made to support the Arian Heresy which the early Church fathers fought. The Old Testament was translated by the Greeks from Aramaic and Hebrew by EXPERTS, word per word. They were translated by different scribes then were studied to make conformity among the translations. That was how the OT was revised.

Obviously, I am speaking in a Christian's point of view.

Yes you are speaking from a Christian perspective again demonstrating the honesty of the Church.

I was a member of an exclusive group translating the Dead Sea Scrolls from 1994-1999. The Dead Sea Scrolls were deposited in the caves during upheavals in the area; it was the Judaic community's assurance their writings would survive. The three deposits were made in the second century BCE, 63 BCE and 68 CE. There is also material as late as from Masada about 135 CE.

The material explains how Judaism was taught before Christianity which s why you are getting these feeble fantasies.

If you desire to know more about the Dead Sea Scrolls read "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" By Abegg, Flynt and Ulrich.

Did you ever wonder why the Christian community has to lie if what they preach is the real truth?

Only gullible men find the lies of the preachers as the truth but not me. And my studies have convinced me that the Christianity is not how you see it, it's more than what the preacher say.

And I am sorry to say that even if you are a member of the translators, I still don't find your claim as the truth. One can write anything and keep it but the truth may not be the item of the written material. The Bible has been proven as authentic through out the years, no, centuries rather. The history appeared to be parallel in other pagan accounts. E.G. Some of them are from the DEAD SEA SCROLLS as well. The Amarna Letters, written in 14th century B.C., acknowledges the relationships of Egypt and Canaan. It was written by Canaanites Scribes. The Egyptian Amenemope's Wisdom, Early 1st Millenium B.C., has similarities with Proverbs 22:17-24:22. The Babylonian Theodicy, Early 1st Millenium B.C., accounts the dialogue of a sufferer and his friend (Job), the Atrahasis Epic of the Akkadians, describes a creation plus early human history and the flood. These are just a few of pagan accounts which are parallel with what the Bible says.

Thanks for responding. I love your topic.

The ancient writings may tell a fable or stretch a truth but they are authentic. When original material is found it should supersede later copies but that is not the case when it comes to the Bible/Koran.

The earliest material from the Dead Sea Scrolls is from about 120 BCE. It contains all Biblical books except Esther/Ishtar. The earliest writing which is in the scrolls is fragments from about 250 BCE. No earlier manuscripts exist. The one thing which struck the translators was the changes in the same documents from the earliest writings to the latest found from 68 CE and Masada about 135. The slight alteration over time made clear how Judaism came into being.

Current Bibles are translated from the Leningrad Codex 1008 CE and where it is missing text the Aleppo Codex from 925 CE is employed. The NT is translated from Codex Sinaiticus; fourth century, Codex Vaticanus fourth century, Codex Alexandrinus fifth century.

The Job theme was one of the more common themes in antiquity and has no more to do with Judaism than it do any other Canaanite religion.

The Amarna letters prove the origins of where the early Israelites borrowed the material for proverbs. Atra Hasis was where the Israelites got the material for their Genesis from. You did not include the Material from Ras-Shamras 13th century BCE which tells how the God El donated the Shasu (Earliest name for the Israelites) to his son Yaw, represented by the Tetragammaton and later known as YHWH.

The ancient tales do not confirm the Bible they tell us where the Israelite material originated.

Any person who suggests to a child that it is OK to kill anyone regardless of excuse is a sick person!

The tales of Sargon indicate there was a real Sargon; like most figures some things are true others are embellished legends. The legends about Sargon are harmless as no person is told to believe them without questioning. It is only when you are told something is true without the evidence to back it up that you cause harm.

The tales of Sargon can go on and I don't have a problem. But your linking of Sargon with Moses when there are no absolute proofs is misleading and can be harmful.

How can that be harmful when the tale of Sargon is the only historical basket case?

The link has been made by a great many historians. Since there is no evidence the Biblical Moses is a historical person there is no reason not to link the tale with the appropriate legends.

Living without a religion is like a goat that doesn't know where she has to go, also denying all these religions that came before Islam is wrong.

You seems to me that you are unaware of life from the spiritual side.
your way in writing these silly things about the three religions proof your awareness, beside your false judging about God.

I think that you need to extend your knowledge more than that because you seems that you are in a small box that you cannot get out and nobody can reach you.
Islam mean purpose is to complete what these three religions come for.
and plz it will be soooo funny if you talk about Islam and Muslims as they are terrorist. STOP TALKING ABOUT TERRORISM its just something else,way different about Islam and real Muslims.

I am aware of life from the spiritual side! The difference between a physical and spiritual life is that those who are spiritual seek spiritual enlightenment: Those that are physical seek physical resurrection!

If you think Islam is so good you should read the Koran and Hadit you will soon change your mind. Read the Koran chronologically and you will see how Muhammad claimed some God came and granted him all that he desired and solved all things to his benefit. Such a God is more like a fairy godmother but in Muhammad’s case an evil one for he got the perfect recipe for getting soldiers to sacrifice their lives for nothing!