No Child Left Behind... and the US Constitution.

@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
December 1, 2008 10:25am CST
No Child Left Behind is just one major failure to add to the heap of major failures that will always occur when the Federal Government tries to stick its fingers into K-12 education. It will always fail for a few reasons. The Federal Government is a wasteland of "one size fits all" marshes and "throw money at the problem" sink holes. They look at the people of Chicago the same as San Francisco, New Orleans, Sheboygan and Clearwater. They take a program that works in one area and foolishly try to make it national... then throw money into it for years, even after it has failed miserably. Of course teachers hate NCLB, it ties their hands and forces them to do everything but teach the kids. It redefines education from learning how to think to learning how to pass a test. Tests should be a means for evaluating what a student has learned, not the goal of the class itself. Administrators and School boards often love NCLB, why? Because it encourages laziness from administrators and school boards, but promises money in return for high "success". Money for nothing is a huge motivator. It is also a study in unconstitutional mandates. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." Tenth Amendment, US Constitution. The fact is, there is no Constitutional backing for the federal government to be involved in local school districts at all. Its ironic that elementary schools are supposed to teach the US Constitution, but instead have a blaring example of unconstitutional federal interferance. Not only is No Child Left Behind a complete and total failure, it is a money pit and completely unconstitutional.
3 people like this
10 responses
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
1 Dec 08
The original idea behind this was actually a good one, but as so much the legislators have touched, it ended up being a hastily put together mess. I fully agree with the concepts that all children should have achieved a certain set level of education per grade level, depending on their ability that is. However, educators also have to deal with a lot of kids whose learning ability is restricted in one way or another, sometimes severely. Yet, those kids also have to take the tests, sometimes without an allowance made for their condition or that they are in essence special ed. Similarly, states don't have the money to provide schools with all they need get up to par and to have kids pass the tests. The school districts often don't even have enough money to hire a sufficient amount of teachers, much less really good ones, or specialized ones to help those who need extra help. Yet, the schools have to perform or suffer the consequences. In our state they had to make cuts to the education budget. In our district that meant firing the literacy teachers, who did invaluable work getting the little ones to read, which is so important for them to like to learn. I have a child in second grade and one in Kindergarten. The school year is not even half over and we can already tell the difference in the literacy level from my oldest Kindergarten class compared to her sister's now. One can only imagine what will happen once these kids enter third grade and start the standard tests. I foresee a drop in scores... Anyhow, there was little guidance on what needs to be done, how schools should get up to par, etc. There is hardly any financing available unless they succeed and get a reward so to speak. Which is crazy considering that the purpose is to help those who lag behind. But I'm sure the pork that came with the bill was well thought through and formulated... Yes, the act is a failure so far. It needs a revision, redo, whatever... but I don't think it should be completely eliminated and forgotten about.
2 people like this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
1 Dec 08
You don't need more government you need more parental responsiblity. Many teachers now schedule up to 1/3 rd of the class time for homework. If they don't then the parents complain that students don't have time to do it and be with their friends and jobs. The government will help below average students attend college and then wonder why they can't get a good paying job once out of college and can't pay back the loans.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Dec 08
What needs to be done is education run at the local level, with oversight from the next jurisdiction. The further you centralize anything, the more corruption and failure you build into the system.
2 people like this
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
1 Dec 08
Lol, we have been complaining that there is not enough homework to the point that our kids get extra stuff to do at home. Just like my youngest has to get extra reading time from us in order to be where she needs to be. I fully agree that parents need to be more involved and should complain less about homework assignments. However, I don't think we should punish the kids whose parents don't care and simply leave everything up to the schools. Kids should learn how to read and write. In a developed country like this illiteracy should not be an issue. And kids should not be pushed along because it's more convenient rather than have them repeat a year yet again or trying to figure out what the problem is. That was original thought behind this act... it just ballooned into a monster with proportions nobody wanted in the first place.
2 people like this
@newtondak (3946)
• United States
1 Dec 08
I am acquainted with a number of people involved with K-12 education and the general thought with BOTH teachers and administrators is NOT in favor of NCLB. They know that "teaching to the test" does not provide the education our children need to learn and progress. It does not provide the preparation they need to move on to college. NCLB also requires schools to meet certain criteria and to consistently meet the required test scores in order to obtain Federal funding, while it does not provide the funds the schools need to meet that criteria. While I understand that the aim with this Act is to provide the same quality of education to all children in all public schools across the United States, I do not believe it serves our children or our schools well.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Dec 08
Then why don't adminstrators refuse to do it? Teachers can't refuse, but administrators are entirely in their right to do so.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Dec 08
The administrators ARE the "powers that be", they have every right to accept or reject NCLB, they just choose to accept if because of the money. They don't buy into it for the good of the kids, they do it to pad their own wallets.
1 person likes this
@newtondak (3946)
• United States
1 Dec 08
They are being pressured by the "powers that be" to keep those test scores moving upward so they can get more funding.
1 person likes this
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
2 Dec 08
NCLB was a failure even at the state level. It was simply a poorly defined and poorly executed program. It never had teeth and never addressed the real issues happening within the schools, even at the state level. Even in Texas it was a mess, an abmysmal failure. When it was taken to the Federal level it become not only a poorly defined and poorly executed program, it become un-Constitutional. Couldn't agree with you more. I would actually love to see the feds have a Department of Education. I would love to see that department do a few of things: 1. Provide support to local agencies in the way of grants for innovation 2. Provide building and infrastructure loans for rehabilitation of local schools 3. Provide federal money for re-training / education for individuals who want to become educators at the k-12 level this would include forgiveness programs for those individuals who teach in public schools for 5 years or more. 4. Provide public grants and loans to disadvantaged areas (rural and city) to improve infrastructure, buildings, and attract teachers 5. Standardize teacher training and boards. Yes I know that this might be taking it to far, nevertheless, I really believe that teachers should be held to a standard nationally we should know what we are getting whether in Dallas or Sheboygan. 6. Create and maintain a National Registry of Educators. Sound weird? It really isn't. A few years ago there was a incident where a teacher had been guilty of some really bad things, fired from her position in one state. Off she went to another state and she was hired there. Shame on them for not checking more closely but it took one entire school year for her history to surface. A National Registry would fix this. There are a few other things I would add to the Federal Department of Education if I could. None of them however, would be in the form of dictates to the local level of how to manage education. You are right that the local level is where management belongs. Local school boards are best able to identify problems and correct them. It is only when they fail to do so that the state should ever step in to take over. Parents of course have the first responsibility to their children, part of that is to vote appropriately for the school board members. Another part is to participate in the education process.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
True, a lot of federal programs are based on local programs that worked well... NCLB isn't one of them. The proplem with some of your suggestions is, it deepens the dependency education has on federal money. The federal government is already trillions in debt so there is no reason for local organizations to expect the cash cow to keep giving milk. I like the idea of a National Registry of educators, as long as it is privately funded and run. When I was a Paramedic, I was a member of the National Registry of EMTs and saw a lot of benefit to it. You are right, parents and students have the first responsibility for education, so any program that takes limits the choices in that responsibility is wrong headed. There are millions of kids who are being robbed of the best alternative for them simply because the teachers' unions are opposed to them.
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
3 Dec 08
I am not sure about the dependency issue. I think in my mind I want to cut out the dependency by creating a system that ensures seperation between the "loan" / "grant" system and the execution of the local administration. I truly do believe that this is possible. Clearly I agree with you that today there is a real need to buckle down and deal with our debt as a nation. We can't simply say, "oh here have some money". We need to clean up our mess first. But the other side of this coin is that we should be looking at ways to support our teachers and our students in productive and realistic ways without interfering with the administrative decision making of individual districts. We should also be looking for ways to invest in America first, before investing in the infrastructure of other countries. My thoughts are that by triming the US charity budget we can find millions, possibly billions. By finding these dollars we can start to work toward cleaning up our mess at home. Grants and special loans for innovation in the classroom, for special education, for infrastructure, improved services; these are things that districts need and should be able to look to our federal government for when all else fails. Not handouts but Grants and / or low interest loans where there is need and definition, even competion for the funds. Lets focus on us, America first. Maybe part of the role of the Department of Education should be engaging with corporate America, soliticing funds and resources from corporate America for improvements too our infrastructure. Maybe the Department of Education should really be a cooperative between the federal, state, local and private sectors. My issue is really that whenever I hear Bill Gates or any of the other "Captains" of industry sit before Congress and say they "need" an expansion of the Guest Worker (H1B) program because there aren't enough qualified US workers in the market my blood boils. But there is unfortunately a certain amount of truth in their statements. Our schools are turning out "graduates" incapable of reading, writing, basic math, basic sciences. Most US citizens cannot function beyond basic 10th grade literacy, in some cases despite university diplomas. Most US citizens do not speak a second language. Most US citizens have never been beyond the borders of the USA. Most US universities are still teaching technologies that are 10 to 15 years old, where the market has moved on. Indian, Chinese, Philiphines, Japan, and most of the old Eastern Bloc are all learning new technologies such as client server and ERP which is why they are here in droves. Having worked as a consultant in IT with several school districts across the nation, I am very familar with the issues of the Unions and how they can and do harm innovation and productivity. It is disturbing to watch these dinosaurses in action, believe me. I have seen many good teachers walk away in disgust and many truly dismal teachers sit on their fat proverbials drawing a paycheck and not teach a thing. I have also seen librarians advanced into district CIO's without a lick of experience, that was a joke. There is little accountability and even less responsibility for the outcome of any single action or group of actions. But I remain, like you convinced that the Feds should not be the watchdogs. But who should? Clearly the parents are not standing up today and demanding their children be taught.
@baileycows (3665)
• United States
2 Dec 08
I agree with you. I feel that education starts in the home and no matter how much money you throw into education you can't make parents get involved. My husband and I are clear examples. I was raised in a home where educations was the most important and when I thought I could not hear it anymore all I heard was get your education or you'll be digging ditches for a living. It wasn't forced on me, but yet it was very important. I had a good backing for becoming educated although my grandparents raised me and one finished high school and the other dropped out in Jr. High. They both made good livings however God was first and then education. I still to this day continue learning and try to let my daughter know how important education is. My husband on the other hand dropped out in Jr high because he said education was not a big part of his family. He has 5 brothers and sisters and none of them finished high school. I have five brothers and sisters and only one did not finish high school and 2 of us are about to graduate college the other 2 started but did not finish. He says now he wished he had finished, but no one cared if he finished his homework or even went to school so he quit. Which at that age his parents had to let him do. I just feel that education should start with the parents and no amount of money is going to educate a child if they are not backed. There is no way the federal government or any school can give every child a sense of security and need to finish school and get their education.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
All true, but involved parents don't always equal a good student. My parents were very involved and interested in our education. When I had trouble learning multiplication, my mother and I sat down with flash cards. Once she learned which ones I had the most trouble with, she put them on 5x7 cards and hung them on the walls around the house. To this day if I have to multiply 7x6, I laugh to myself because I still see those 5x7s on the walls. :~D
@halynn (1809)
• United States
2 Dec 08
I agree. In schools today they have a level that all kids have to meet. Therefore, if the child succeeds that level then they're bored with what is going on in class & if they've not met that level then they just get further & further behind. It is too bad really. very sad
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
Oh, I'm all for setting standards in schools... the problem with NCLB is that it puts the emphasis on all the wrong standards. Education isn't a "one size fits all" thing.. but NCLB forces it to become such.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
NCLB doesn't require all kids to be the same in every grade, it just requires them to be able to pass tests the same in every grade. Passing tests is a piss poor substitute for learning.
@halynn (1809)
• United States
2 Dec 08
I'm for setting standards too. It's just unfair that they expect all kids to be @ the same level in every grade. All kids develop & learn @ different times. Best wishes.
• United States
2 Dec 08
NCLB was a joke once they got done watering it down. But to tell you the truth I do not think one cookie cutter federal law is going to fix the education problems and throwing money at it is not going to solve the problem. THe teachers do need to be held accountable. I have no problems with bonuses for doing a great job. But also you need parents more involved with the education process. Teachers spend more time deciplining than they do teaching. Parents think their kids are perfect and if their is a problem it is the teachers fault and not their little angels. So the following people need to held accountable when the students as a whole are not learning 1. Parents 2. The student 3. The teachers 4. The principal 5. The school board But then you are talking to someone who has so little faith in the public school system that I enrolled my son in a virtual charter school.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
I agree with you, although I would put the student at #1 and parents at #2. Until a kid is interested in learning, the parents and teachers can do little to teach them. Personally, I think that mandatory education is part of the problem... although I don't know if making education totally voluntary is the answer either.
@Celanith (2327)
• United States
2 Dec 08
Homeschool is what my daughter does and her children do much better, learning at their own pace and a lot more than kids do in Public schools. Two of her children have learning disabilities in some areas but they already do better and know more than a lot of kids in the same grade as public school. Plus they are not learning things the states continue to foist off on children and parents as mandantory in public schools. They are learning their civil rights and about government. They have hands on learning and pick things up quickly. It works well and they do have a social life in 4-H, church, and in other areas. A lot more kids are being left behind with this stupid law and a lot of good teachers are not hired that should be because they are "Too old" or too old fashioned.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
I'm am a supporter of school choice. Homeschooling and other alternatives are much more effective than unconstitutional federal infringements. I commend you for choosing homeschooling, I know it isn't for everyone, but it's awesome for those who benefit from it.
@palonghorn (5479)
• United States
2 Dec 08
i am in total agreement with you! president bush had a great idea, no child left behind, or was it???? my daughter should have graduated with her senior class this past may. she took all the required classes, passed all of her classes, even doing some extra work. however, she DID NOT get to graduate with her class, along with others! why? because she missed passing the 'exit' exam by 3 points! and even though there was months til graduation, the next date to take the test, 6 months after graduation! and the real kicker......the test won't be used in 2009! our schools are doing nothing but teaching the test. let the teachers get back to teaching and our children back to learning.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
Exactly, your daughter chose an education over learning to pass a test... and now she has to pay for that.
• United States
2 Dec 08
I cringe at the thought of my girls attending public school. I went to catholic school til Junior High & i received a great education in my opinion. I want my girls to have teachers who care about my girls education
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
Look into alternative choices then... if they are available in your area.
• United States
2 Dec 08
No child left behind has always been a controversial issue. I wonder what can we possibly do now that it has been laid out and seem to be a failure. The aim of improving the performance of schools by increasing the standards of accountability for states, districts and schools. The teacher are given all the task to do everything like slaves which don't sound fair. Education should not be a total resposibility of schools or teachers alone so what is the role of the parents here? Is there any way this act can be ammended? If so when?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Dec 08
We can encourage the new administration to dump the unconstitutional white elephant. More importantly, we can encourage our local school boards and adinistrators to free themselves of the money addiction that seems to have replaced education in our schools.