Need help understanding this interesting Bible verse...  |
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| Leviticus 25:44 "'As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-- you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you." New American Standard Bible. Here what Leviticus 25:44 says in the King James Bible: "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids." What does this mean? Is this the Bible saying that slavery is ok, as long as slaves are bought from neighboring countries? And if so, why has Slavery been abolished as a human rights violation? | | | | | |
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1. Adoniah (4166)
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3 years ago
| | Times and customs change. If you continue reading, you will find out that a slave could redeem him/herself, or a relative could do it for them. Someone sold that person into slavery. They were not just run down and forced into slavery. They either owed a great debt, or a relative sold them. There were also laws pertaining to the treatment of slaves or bondsmen. They were to be treated decently and fed and clothed properly. And, they were to be given every chance to redeem their freedom. Shalom~Adoniah | | | | | | |
II2aTee (845)
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3 years ago
| | Indeed, the verses that follow are interesting as well. It goes into explicit detail as to how to go about buying, selling and tradeing slaves in servitude. So by saying that "times and customs change", that it is ok to ignore certain Bible verses as long as the current customs of the time permits? Interesting. | | | |
lotterylover (7440)
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3 years ago
| | It seems like I remember reading where the slaves were to be let free during the year of Jubilee or did they have to wait for 50ty years? | | | |
dragonflyfli (1285)
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3 years ago
| | Everything evolves into what is good for survival as the years pass. This discussion goes to show that the bible is not something to live your life by, it's stories are unrealistic in these days, back thousands of years things were different. But to think that we should do things like they did then is just ignorant and we would be setting ourselves back thousands of years, and this can be no good for anyone. I dont understand why so many people dont understand this. History evolves and changes. For one to think that things dont evolve with time is suggesting that the world is rigid. Yes I agree that history repeats it'self but things change. Slavery is wrong. Do you want to know why? Because lets shackle and hand cuff you and force you into a life of low self esteeem and servitude. See how you feel. | | | |
dragonflyfli (1285)
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3 years ago
| | sorry, lol, i just get annoyed | | | |
debrakcarey (2673)
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3 years ago
| | Do you have a credit card? Then the bank owns you...you have voluntarily sold yourself to them...and until you buy yourself back...they are your masters. Voluntary servitude was a way to pay back debt...and the allowance for buying the heathen (pagan) was a way to redeem them from much worse conditions such as human sacrifice practiced by the pagans around them...many slaves of the Hebrews were adopted into families and made a full citizen after their time of service was ended. God does not condone divorce either, but because of the hardness of men's hearts...he allowed for it in the law. It is not that hard to study the cultures of the day...I'm sure you could actually understand what is meant if you were objective and without an agenda. :) Lets see....what ethnic group do you belong to? I'm sure I could find some reprehensible behavior of YOUR ancestors...that would be unacceptable in our day and age. | | | |
islander7 (4834)
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3 years ago
| | As a matter of fact i do not have, and have never had a credit card. Whichever way you frame it you are applauding slavery which is openly portrayed in your holy book for modern considerstion. To live your life at all in awe of such ancient writings is simply senseless. To be buried in ancient beliefs of the ignorant is feeble. | | | |
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2. barrudaki (1332)
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3 years ago
| | What,what what! Two different wordings of the same bible verse! How can that be according to so many christians the bible has never been revised or reworded! (But we all know that's not true just like the bible). What the verse means is the bible was written by a bunch of people who wanted to punish anyone who didn't believe in their religion. The bible was not written by god and it was not written through man by god. | | | | | | |
II2aTee (845)
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3 years ago
| | I am just interested on why humanity as a whole was able to move on and decide that Slavery was moraly unacceptable... when it says so plainly the the Bible approves of slavery... and furthermore gives instructions of guidance on how to buy, sell, and trade slaves?? *scratches head* And how do the people who follow the Bible as the unfailable Word of God feel about this?? The poeple who claim to follow the Bible to the absolute letter. Do THEY think slavery is an acceptable practice? | | | |
barrudaki (1332)
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3 years ago
| | The christian opinion changed because the political opinion changed. Since the christian religious leaders want control and power of government they didn't want to seem out of political favor, that would mean they would become the minority plus they wanted to appeal to the "newly" freed slaves so they suddenly deemed slavery bad in their eyes. It shows how the bible does not really carry moral values but that it is a reflection of the time period it was written. A lot of christians want the world to forget those words in the bible so they ignore certain verses or deem them invalid or misinterpreted. | | | |
barrudaki (1332)
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3 years ago
| | Society no longer agreed with slavery because we grew up. | | | |
darkjedi (4347)
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3 years ago
| | Hey :D How are you two doing? | | | |
debrakcarey (2673)
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3 years ago
| | The original languages are not changed...It amazes me that you would not think of this.... They are two different translations of the original language. It is so obvious... | | | |
barrudaki (1332)
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3 years ago
| | nope the language was changed it wasn't a different translation. Both bibles were suppose to be the "same" translation the difference was about 100 years in the publication so that IS proof about how political change brings about change in the bible. | | | |
barrudaki (1332)
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3 years ago
| | oops sorry guess I should clarify. My proof lies in my roommates family bible from 100 years ago and the recent bible I was referring to was published in 1991. One condones slavery while the newer one condemns it. That's not a translation issue that is a better change it because the political powers are changing issue. | | | |
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3. islander7 (4834)
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3 years ago
| | This is a prime example of the futility of following bible verses literally. Alot of it is ancient history (or often debatable history), and customs that are outmoded in the present world. | | | | | | |
II2aTee (845)
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3 years ago
| | So this is an example of something that would have applied to civilization during the time the bible was written, but has no bearing on todays world? Interesting. | | | |
islander7 (4834)
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3 years ago
| | Absolutely. This was the uncivilised world. It was an awful long time before slavery was generally thought a bad thng. | | | |
debrakcarey (2673)
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3 years ago
| | While we find slavery reprehensible....in the ancient world it was a perfectly acceptable way to work off debt...gain an education in a trade....and to escape much worse conditions in your own land, many slaves were slaves voluntarily...it's not like what the was done to African slaves in America, whom btw were captured and sold by other Africans who were of enemy tribes...until you know your history as well as you THINK you know it..it is best not to look foolish by opening your mouth. Every seven years a slave had a chance to leave...and every fifty years there was a common release of those in debt. No other culture of that time treated their servents so well. Get over yourselves. To take something out of context and use it to bash the Bible that has been studied for centuries and benefitted civilization with it's wisdom is just showing ignorance for the facts....and making it obvious you have no class. | | | |
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4. Beertjie (717)
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3 years ago
| | If you you know the history of Israel, then you would find that hey were not allowed to have Israel slaves. They were all ment to be free. If they wanted to have slaves, they had to make use of the pagan nations, who did not serve God. Those who served God was intended to be free. Slavery was already changed in the Bible, New Testiment. The Apostle Paul was against slavery and slowly more and more slaves became free. If you study slavery in thase time, you would find that slaves were trained as doctors, teachers, etc. Not just for hard labour. The Bible was not written to be a history book, so for those who had all these bad comments, please, if you want to know history, read history books. Stop with your critisizing the Bible of which you do not know it's history. If you want to know something, get your facts together, including concept of time and situations regarding certain things in the Bible. Don't take one vers and seperate it from the truth of the Bible. May you be blessed. | | | | | | |
dragonflyfli (1285)
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3 years ago
| | Right, nothing is 100% truth. Even the bible. It's good to have faith but not when it turns into nieve all trusting behavior. It's not good for your soul to constantly set yourself up for disapointment. Idealy it would be nice to have a book that tells you what to do every step of the way, but in the long run it takes away freedom of choice, which the bible says is the devils lure. Ask yourself, is following the bible really good for you? Should you really reject yourself like it says you should? Dont you think that you should embrace your dark side as well as your good side? Dont you want balance? | | | |
Beertjie (717)
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3 years ago
| | Darkjedi, your blasphemy and foul language is not apretiated. I don't care how you feel about me but please don't be offensive in your responses. I have reported your behaviour. I am not attacking you personaly but this type of behaviour is not apreciated. | | | |
darkjedi (4347)
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3 years ago
| | *shrugs* Ill blasphemy as you call it if I want to, if you dont like it you can ignore it, since to me its not blasphemy because unlike you im not a christian so Ill say goddamn what I want. | | | |
Beertjie (717)
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3 years ago
| | ok, you amy use whatever words you choose. God still loves you whether you believe it or not. And because I love all people, you are included in my love prayers. Have a blessed day. No harm done, no bad feelings. | | | |
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5. islandrose (487)
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3 years ago
| | The powerful & wealthy men before bought slaves because slaves had low educational trainings. As compared to our generation, men and women have good educational trainings, therefore, you have to pay their services appropriately. Before, very few countries were wealthy, whereas today, many countries are wealthy and strong, so, wars before made many changes of what was written before. However, what was written before is still very useful because men has to mirror whatever decisions he may take for his fellowmen. | | | | | | |
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6. darkjedi (4347)
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3 years ago
| | Yep it is saying that slavery is ok. Just another thing that is ignored by most christians. If it wasnt, why we would have slavery still. Hell if your going to follow the bible 100% then that should be followed too, yet they dont. Hmmm hypocrisy much? Dont ya just love it? | | | | | | |
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7. mathss1 (777)
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3 years ago
| | this is the law under Moses, not Christian law. Having slaves isn't a requirement of being a Christian. The scriptures about it simply tell how to treat a slave if a person has one. Slaves in the New Testament were no different from employees. They worked for someone, and they were given shelter and food in return. Before the Common Era. War, poverty, and crime were the basic factors that reduced persons to a state of servitude. Captives of war were often constituted slaves by their captors or were sold into slavery by them. (Compare 2Ki 5:2; Joe 3:6.) In Israelite society a person who became poor could sell himself or his children into slavery to care for his indebtedness. (Ex 21:7; Le 25:39, 47; 2Ki 4:1) One guilty of thievery but unable to make compensation was sold for the things he stole, evidently regaining his freedom at the time all claims against him were cared for.—Ex 22:3. At times slaves held a position of great trust and honor in a household. The patriarch Abraham’s aged servant (likely Eliezer) managed all of his master’s possessions. (Ge 24:2; 15:2, 3) Abraham’s descendant Joseph, as a slave in Egypt, came to be in charge of everything belonging to Potiphar, a court official of Pharaoh. (Ge 39:1, 5, 6) In Israel, there was a possibility of a slave’s becoming wealthy and redeeming himself.—Le 25:49. Laws governing slave-master relationships. Among the Israelites the status of the Hebrew slave differed from that of a slave who was a foreigner, alien resident, or settler. Whereas the non-Hebrew remained the property of the owner and could be passed on from father to son (Le 25:44-46), the Hebrew slave was to be released in the seventh year of his servitude or in the Jubilee year, depending upon which came first. During the time of his servitude the Hebrew slave was to be treated as a hired laborer. (Ex 21:2; Le 25:10; De 15:12) A Hebrew who sold himself into slavery to an alien resident, to a member of an alien resident’s family, or to a settler could be repurchased at any time, either by himself or by one having the right of repurchase. The redemption price was based on the number of years remaining until the Jubilee year or until the seventh year of servitude. (Le 25:47-52; De 15:12) When granting a Hebrew slave his freedom, the master was to give him a gift to assist him in getting a good start as a freedman. (De 15:13-15) If a slave had come in with a wife, the wife went out with him. However, if the master had given him a wife (evidently a foreign woman who would not be entitled to freedom in the seventh year of servitude), she and any children by her remained the property of the master. In such a case the Hebrew slave could choose to remain with his master. His ear would then be pierced with an awl to indicate that he would continue in servitude to time indefinite.—Ex 21:2-6; De 15:16, 17. First-Century Christian Position. In the Roman Empire slaves were very numerous, with individuals owning hundreds and even thousands of slaves. The institution of slavery had the protection of the imperial government. First-century Christians did not take a stand against governmental authority in this matter and advocate a slaves’ revolt. They respected the legal right of others, including fellow Christians, to own slaves. That is why the apostle Paul sent back the runaway slave Onesimus. Because he had become a Christian, Onesimus willingly returned to his master, subjecting himself as a slave to a fellow Christian. (Phm 10-17) The apostle Paul also admonished Christian slaves not to take improper advantage of their relationship with believing masters. He said: “Let those having believing owners not look down on them, because they are brothers. On the contrary, let them the more readily be slaves, because those receiving the benefit of their good service are believers and beloved.” (1Ti 6:2) For a slave to have a Christian master was a blessing, as his owner was under obligation to deal righteously and fairly with him.—Eph 6:9; Col 4:1. It was not God's purpose that any of the Israelites suffer poverty. The nation was given an inheritance of land. (Nu 34:2-12) The Law, however, did much to make it easier for the poor to cope with their situation. During the harvest they had the right to glean in the fields, orchards, and vineyards and, therefore, did not have to beg for bread or resort to stealing. To build up his financial resources, he could sell his land or sell himself into slavery, on a temporary basis. So in a sense it was an arangement to make their life easier not harder. http://answers.yahoo.com/... | | | | | | |
barehugs (5855)
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3 years ago
| | I Hope for your sake mathss1, when you get sold into slavery, your master is a Christian. | | | |
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8. morethanamolehill (860)
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3 years ago
| | The Bible talks about a lot of things. Just because it's in the Bible does not mean that it is condoned. It also says that bribery is effective, which is true, but later it says that bribery is wrong. In Proverbs it says that a "Borrower becomes the lenders slave", This is talking about Borrowing more than slavery. There is also no prison system in the Bible. Even though the OT talks extensively about Crimes and Punishment. | | | | | | |
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9. Wolfechu (891)
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3 years ago
| | Any Christian will tell you that Leviticus is outmoded and doesn't apply to modern life nowadays. Except for the bits about gays, of course. | | | | | | |
barehugs (5855)
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3 years ago
| | Sure, Throw out anything you don't like! (The Christian Church has been doing this for 1500 years! so its not a new idea) Better keep the part about Gays "of course"... we can use these bits to dice Homosexual Christians, can't we? | | | |
Wolfechu (891)
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3 years ago
| | Well, it always strikes me as odd that apparently things like shrimp, blended fabrics and menstruating women are now acceptable, but what two guys might get up to isn't. I can only assume God sent out a memo as to which bits were still important at some point, but I never got a copy. | | | |
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10. MYKLJ999_VERSION_2 (2961)
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3 years ago
| | Wow...so not EVERYTHING in the Bible holds true today, huh? Only the things that certain people think still hold true... Hmmmmm.... Interesting concept... But who decides what parts of the Bible we should pay attention to and what parts we should ignore? Hmmmm... Sorry, just thinking out loud here.... | | | | | | |
darkjedi (4347)
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3 years ago
| | Well ofcourse lol. | | | |
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