He said/She said  

i have made the first move, it was a very subtle move and was almost missed but he figured it out. i don't think there's anything wrong with a woman making the first move if she's confident enough to do it.

oh manners are so very important. unfortunately not many men remember what their mothers try to teach them when they're young. open the door, pull out the chair, hold our coats...we love this stuff.

Lol hell I love how it comes up. Yes I enjoy girls as a hobby hehehe. Hell my parents taught me manners, and my mom of course, but well when I was younger I didnt want to listen to what they taught me at all, but some stuff I always have. Like opening doors for women, women at work are always surprised when I do that lol, and when I wait for them to get off the elevator first and all that. And well being a geek and a guy it took a little longer to realize and sink in hey this very pretty girl might like me lol.

HI Geminikid, how are you? I think you are a very lucky young man to have been raised the way ny lady that is lucky enough to get you for their ver own will indeed be blessed. Now a day, men don't pay enough attetion to teir woman, by their manners, especially. I'm one of the lucky ones, I met a guy,Rex , now he is 13 years younger than me, but that doesn't matter to us} he is the most polite 'wouthern' gentleman I have ever met in my life. I LOVE his manners. And YES I made the first move with him too. I just fell in lov with the way he opened doors for me ,always, & how he would 'yes mam' or 'no mam' me. I don't think there is anything wrng with women asking me out, the only thing is she has to be really confident in herself & her abilities. I am normally a very shy person, but when it came to rex, I just could not help myself. You will find your 'Lady' when you least expect it, trust me on this. And she will worship the ground you walk upon....Lori

Sound so interesting. Hmmmmm, I am a woman but I can say that a man has unique traits that a woman could not defeat. Man is naturally strong and thus they could be able to conceal their pain and longings (in some cases).

Man is the source of woman's strength. Thus man should do the initiative. Let the woman complement to make things complete.

It sounds as if you were raised using many of the same principles I was! The issue with today's mentalities in my opinion is that this type of chivalry and manners is misinterpreted by many. It's not actually SEEN as polite or chivalrous at all and the political correctness/equality angles seem to have overshadowed the true intentions behind it. I once even got abused by a woman for holding the door open for her! She told me she was quite capable of opening her own door and that she wasn't an invalid! I couldn't believe it.

I do think though that it's still mostly men that make the first move, but this too is gradually changing and women are far more forthright these days. What concerns me though is that the attention to manners etc is declining in parallel. Raising a child to the highest standards isn't necessarily achieved using the same ideals from even 20 years ago anymore. Is there a strong focus on manners, respect and discipline these days? I don't reckon there is and at least not to the same extent as the past. I do think that the offspring, personality, prestige and looks angle you mention is still in play too, but it's becoming more of a subconscious thing and not so obvious a motivation. Focus nowadays seems to be career and financial stability etc. People are getting married later for example. John Gray's books are excellent by the way! It's been a while since I've read any of them, but I remember them well.

This post contains content of a mature nature. You must be Signed in or Registered to have the option to view this content.

i agree with that, definitely, and i really want to read that book! i always hear about it but i haven't had the chance to read it yet. i don't believe that men don't cry - they do, just mostly not as much as us women do. especially me - i cry over the smallest things. for example, this morning i had to stop myself from crying because my nail broke and it ripped my tights. the tights are inexpensive and i have plenty of them. LOL.

i wouldn't make the first move - i'd tell the guy i liked him, wait for him to make the first move and if he doesn't... well, i'd take a hint, to be honest. i'd figure he doesn't like me and move on. luckily for me, i have a boyfriend so i don't have to worry about that right now!

When I was probably in my 30's I felt that the pressure put on guys to initiate things or make the first move put lots of pressure on them and that it was unfair. I also figured that some guys were too shy or self conscious or maybe they had been knocked back too often so I would often (usually always) take that first step...like a wink, or a little wave from across a crowded pub floor or disco. Or I would just start up a conversation with a guy I fancied and not wait for him to do it. I've always had this thing about things being equal and in this case men had it too hard.

Unfortunately, for most blokes I must have been implying I was easy or a sure thing because guys would take advantage of my kindness and friendliness and use me and give nothing in return. Like you said...man is the hunter, woman the hunted. Try to change that and you really upset the natural balance.

As for "they think more of offspring"...I don't agree that women choose their mate with this in mind...further on into the relationship they might think...do I really want this lazy bum to father my children?... maybe, but not at the outset.

I saw a documentary on this once. Girls sought guys who would be good providers and the way they imagined the kids would turn out to be. What I thought was scary about the whole show was that men could sense when a child wasn't theirs so they tended to treat the child with dislike. Also women mostly cheated on their first child which in turn would be some other man's child. Kind of scary statistics. When I got together with my husband I thought I couldn't have kids so I never thought about how our children would turn out. I don't think I have ever dated a man who thought about the way a woman should be treated. My husband used to tell me that he would treat me like a queen but those first years were anything but that! I think as we have gotten older together he has changed somewhat but he tells me he is sorry for the hurt he's caused.